Setup in Avr... is this a Bug ?

[fabiocz]

Hello !

1- The placement of speakers in real world:

2- The setup in AVR in: Front Height & Surr. Height
Only works DTS X + Auro 3D, Atmos was downgrade for only front speakers

3- The setup in AVR in: Front Height & Rear Height
Work all : Atmos + DTS X + Auro 3D
But in real world the placement is equal picture 1.

So i ask, is a bug ? What configuration is the best ? This 2 configurations affect the results in calibration ?

At 3:27 he have the same issue:

 

[fabiocz]

Nobody for try help ? = /

 

[3db]

Does the manual explain the differences that you noticed? If not, contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

 

[ryanosaur]

Nobody for try help ? = /

What is your specific goal? Atmos, or something else?
What AVR!
Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

What is your specific goal? Atmos, or something else?
What AVR!
Cheers!

Denon... just caught that

 

[fabiocz]

Does the manual explain the differences that you noticed? If not, contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

Manual dont say nothing about it.

I Will try contact with manufacturer.

 

[fabiocz]

What is your specific goal? Atmos, or something else?
What AVR!
Cheers!

I want all: atmos, dts x, auro, all without downgrade.
In images i explain what happens in each setting.

Denon.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe this article could help aside from the avr manual suggestions: https://www.audioholics.com/diy-audio/how-to-install-an-immersive-audio-setup

 

[fabiocz]

Maybe this article could help aside from the avr manual suggestions: https://www.audioholics.com/diy-audio/how-to-install-an-immersive-audio-setup

It's a good article, but what I meant to say is my layout is like picture 1, so why because when I switch between settings modes inside the receiver does it downgrade ?
I'm imitating the position of my speakers ( pic 1 ), and atmos only work in Front Height but in Surr. Height not. and when i fake my speaker placement for Front Height & Rear Height, atmos dtx and auro works fine.

Is it a limitation of atmos standard, where it can only work in mode Front Height & Rear Height ? Or is a bug in denon firmware system ?

There is the doubt in the air which I found interesting to share.

 

[lovinthehd]

First, I don't want to mess with my ceilings yet so haven't adopted this technology, just following this thread for the most part. I'd personally concern myself with Atmos as that's the most frequently used codec I've seen on blurays. I wouldn't put too much importance in an avr's manual suggestions either, they're very general and likely largely incomplete on variations. There are specific guides for each type of immersion tech AFAIK....search for speaker setup guidelines for each type for the "manuals" on suggested speaker setup instead would be another thought for you. I've seen Dolby's, assume there's one for DTS:X but haven't seen it and was curious so see Storm Audio had this one for Auro https://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v8_20170531__049790400_1458_13062017.pdf.

Review each and see what makes most sense to you to take advantage of all. That's how I would start. I've never even seen any Auro content so that would be the least of my concerns. I do understand trying to be optimally ready for anything that comes along, tho. It'd take a lot to switch all my systems over once I get the bug, if I ever get the bug.....

 

[ryanosaur]

First, I don't want to mess with my ceilings yet so haven't adopted this technology, just following this thread for the most part. I'd personally concern myself with Atmos as that's the most frequently used codec I've seen on blurays. I wouldn't put too much importance in an avr's manual suggestions either, they're very general and likely largely incomplete on variations. There are specific guides for each type of immersion tech AFAIK....search for speaker setup guidelines for each type for the "manuals" on suggested speaker setup instead would be another thought for you. I've seen Dolby's, assume there's one for DTS:X but haven't seen it and was curious so see Storm Audio had this one for Auro https://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v8_20170531__049790400_1458_13062017.pdf.

Review each and see what makes most sense to you to take advantage of all. That's how I would start. I've never even seen any Auro content so that would be the least of my concerns. I do understand trying to be optimally ready for anything that comes along, tho. It'd take a lot to switch all my systems over once I get the bug, if I ever get the bug.....

This.
@fabiocz , where are you located?
I think if you are in the US, you should focus on Atmos. As I understand it, Auro is more prevalent in Europe. I’ve seen some sources show you can make both work together.
Yet in everything audio... the biggest commonality is working with what you have!
So with only 4 channels overhead, you have to strategize carefully.
Sorry, not much of an answer.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What do you mean when you say “downgrade”? It seems English might not be your first language. I’ve been trying very hard to decipher. Sorry, I don’t get the question. Ryan? Chris? What am I missing?

 

[ryanosaur]

Nothing? *fractured half smile
I may be putting words in OPs mouth... apologies... but I think he's saying that what the AVR is doing is "breaking" the experiences he is expecting.

@fabiocz your 3rd option above is different than the first two. I agree the first two look same. Third has your 5 channel bed layer in the standard configuration. But the Rear Heights are different than what you called Surround Height above.

Dolby's Atmos recommendations are different than those, and maybe easier to acheive what you are looking for if simple Atmos would suffice. Top Front and Top Rear placement is best for that.

Please clarify your location as that might allow better answers from us!

 

[fabiocz]

This.
@fabiocz , where are you located?
I think if you are in the US, you should focus on Atmos. As I understand it, Auro is more prevalent in Europe. I’ve seen some sources show you can make both work together.
Yet in everything audio... the biggest commonality is working with what you have!
So with only 4 channels overhead, you have to strategize carefully.
Sorry, not much of an answer.

Yeah, i think the best choice is Front Height & Rear Height , because i dont lose anything.

What do you mean when you say “downgrade”? It seems English might not be your first language. I’ve been trying very hard to decipher. Sorry, I don’t get the question. Ryan? Chris? What am I missing?

Yes i`m from Brazil, sorry for it hahah

Downgraded =
Front Height & Surr. Height = In atmos the Surr. Height dont work, so 2 channel will not be used.

And in Front Height & Rear Height, atmos work all channel, so don`t downgraded

Nothing? *fractured half smile
I may be putting words in OPs mouth... apologies... but I think he's saying that what the AVR is doing is "breaking" the experiences he is expecting.

@fabiocz your 3rd option above is different than the first two. I agree the first two look same. Third has your 5 channel bed layer in the standard configuration. But the Rear Heights are different than what you called Surround Height above.

Dolby's Atmos recommendations are different than those, and maybe easier to acheive what you are looking for if simple Atmos would suffice. Top Front and Top Rear placement is best for that.

Please clarify your location as that might allow better answers from us!

Im my bedroom i only can use the placement of speakers in this type ( Auro 3d style, the 4 speakers exactly above the current 5.1 ) :

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No apologies necessary. Brazil is a wonderful place, and you’ve done a great job in presenting your info. Sometimes I’m just not perceptive. Sometimes I am!
I think the front/rear height designation will work best.

 

[fabiocz]

Somebody knows if is there any difference in the processing, or the way I will darken the effects using the model in figure 02 but in the real world be using the model in figure 01?

I think if there is a disposition I must follow it according to the real world, am I right or wrong? Because I may be losing involvement because I have not configured the avr in the correct way.

Note:
I don't use atmos, just neural x / dts x
Denon 4500h

 

[Pogre]

You don't appear to be properly set up for atmos. You need in ceiling speakers or at the very least something like the SVS Prime elevation speakers, carefully placed, can work.

 

[Pogre]

Somebody knows if is there any difference in the processing, or the way I will darken the effects using the model in figure 02 but in the real world be using the model in figure 01?

I think if there is a disposition I must follow it according to the real world, am I right or wrong? Because I may be losing involvement because I have not configured the avr in the correct way.

Note:
I don't use atmos, just neural x / dts x
Denon 4500h

I think perhaps your expectations might be part of the issue here. Those effect speakers don't play a lot of material. They're only there for effects and don't genrally see a lot of action to begin with.

 

[fabiocz]

I think perhaps your expectations might be part of the issue here. Those effect speakers don't play a lot of material. They're only there for effects and don't genrally see a lot of action to begin with.

I just sent an email to audyssey to find out if there is any difference between these 2 modes in how the sound is handled / distributed.

I think if I send a picture of my system it will be better to understand.

 

[Pogre]

That's a lot of speakers in a little room!

I get that your speakers are where they are, but for Atmos to really work its best it's my understanding the speakers need to be in ceiling or more mounted overhead to perform best. They look like they're positioned more like height speakers than Atmos. That could be why you're not satisfied where it's at right now.