Best setup for my new toys

[IansDad88(Don)]

Yikes... Just jumped over to another forum topic. Guy called walleye trash fish.? Definitely sent me back here. Don't want any part of that. We love catching and eating walleye... Or pickerel as the Canadians call them.

Rather have folks tell me I got the wrong sub than consider throwing back a walleye.!

Even though it seems like I've done it wrong, I'm glad Leemix at least was able to decipher my drivel and understand what I was trying to say about :
A 10 inch running a little subdued for music should give your klipsches a little more body and sound bigger without shouting im here! And then later if you want to spend more on a better quality sub you will get even more body and snap.

Thanks..!

 

[Leemix]

Yikes... Just jumped over to another forum topic. Guy called walleye trash fish.? Definitely sent me back here. Don't want any part of that. We love catching and eating walleye... Or pickerel as the Canadians call them.

Rather have folks tell me I got the wrong sub than consider throwing back a walleye.!

Even though it seems like I've done it wrong, I'm glad Leemix at least was able to decipher my drivel and understand what I was trying to say about :
A 10 inch running a little subdued for music should give your klipsches a little more body and sound bigger without shouting im here! And then later if you want to spend more on a better quality sub you will get even more body and snap.

Thanks..!

You are very welcome.
Reading it again i just want to note that bigger subs dont shout im here either, thats all in how its set up with either sub. (Unless its like one of the small plastic (htib)boxes, probably like your very old one, those kinds cant help it)

 

[Pogre]

No, but I'd milk my stock head unit if that's what I had until I could afford the one I wanted.

That's kinda what we're suggesting you do with your Onkyo. For a home system rule of thumb is to start with speakers and subs first. The bulk of your budget should always go toward them (75%-ish?) and spend on your electronics and interconnects more conservatively.

I started with a stereo pair of bookshelf speakers, a small pair of subs and an AVR receiver then added from there (already gave you my sub story, lol). I do have a separate amplifier now, but that was the last thing I purchased after I got everything else sorted out. Namely finding speakers I liked, then subs, then an AVR to use as the brains of my system. I route everything through it an do all of my switching from there. When shopping for the AVR I looked for something with a full set of preouts and good room correction software. Power was a secondary consideration. I wanted to have MultEQ XT32 for room correction, and the preouts leave your options open for additional amplification down the road should you choose. Those were really the 2 biggest considerations for me.

I'm a gamer too so I already had the Xbox 1X, which serves me great as a Blu Ray player and an old, unused retired laptop that I turned into my HTPC (which involved removing it from the closet, blowing the dust off then connecting it to my receiver via HDMI and sticking in my TV stand). It can play or rip any CDs I might want to listen to so I never once even considered getting a separate CD player. I've ripped all my CDs to lossless files so I mostly use Foobar2000 to organize and play them now anyway.

So yeah, my clunky ol' laptop and gaming console (*edit: Amazon FireTV for streaming services, but could use the laptop if I wanted to) are all I really feel I need. If I were looking for a Blu Ray or CD player that's where I'd save some cash and let the receiver supply the power. Like Kew said, Sony's bread and butter are Blu Ray and CD players. Anything more than $150-200 is going into features, build quality and bells n whistles.

Here's an older article that still pretty much applies today for budgeting a home system. Most of the guys here are very bang for your buck. Performance over fluff and a no nonsense approach. Objectivity and science backed tried and true principles and experience. Gene is an EE and there are a few more on staff as well.

 

[Pogre]

You are very welcome.
Reading it again i just want to note that bigger subs dont shout im here either, thats all in how its set up with either sub. (Unless its like one of the small plastic (htib)boxes, probably like your very old one, those kinds cant help it)

Sub size isn't so much the issue as the quality of the bass it produces. I agree that a 10" sub can sound great too, if it's the right sub.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Sub size isn't so much the issue as the quality of the bass it produces. I agree that a 10" sub can sound great too, if it's the right sub.

And the right room!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

First off Ian’s dad, thank you for serving our country. It’s something that we appreciate in my house and even my kids will thank veterans for that when we’re out and about. Means a lot.

Wow, quite a thread. I will try not to muddy the waters, and just say the guys are on point, and you’re taking it in stride. Many newbs will huff and puff and leave when they don’t get validation, when they said they wanted advice.
And walleye, trash fish? Wtf!!! Maybe they meant rock bass...lol

Anyway, fwiw, I bought a Sony ubpx700 as a source for my atmos system. It does Spotify, Vudu, Netflix, etc and I’m not % but I think you can add your own favorites to it. It also plays all my disks, and is pretty quiet. Should handle all my media for a long time.(PS3 and dish receiver also provide other options for me)

Also, not gonna lie. I would be happy for you to address the sub thing. I know, I know...but it’s true. Poges is right. Good clean linear bass shouldn’t be underestimated IMO, and if you want to hear Niels kick drum from the opening to the finish of Tom Sawyer played cleanly, and with weight, well....
So Ian’s dad, welcome to the rabbit hole, ‘er Club. Yeah, club...

 

[Pogre]

And the right room!

Tell me about it! I'm a little sore from yesterday! Ha ha!

There will be a round 2 tho... I wanna try the nearfield placement where my end table is that Zoltar suggested and also try stacking them again. They measured best with both on the left side stacked atop each other. I was just getting beat up and tired and wanted to finish before the wifey came home so I didn't run a proper setup when they were there. That might be my golden ticket right there. Easily my best sweep with no PEQ or Audyssey.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Tell me about it! I'm a little sore from yesterday! Ha ha!

There will be a round 2 tho... I wanna try the nearfield placement where my end table is that Zoltar suggested and try stacking them again. They measured best with both on the left side stacked atop each other. I was just getting beat up and tired and wanted to finish before the wifey came home so I didn't run a proper setup when they were there. That might be my golden ticket right there. Easily my best sweep with no PEQ or Audyssey.

Lol, I hear that man. Fwiw, I’ve never been able to get near field to “feel” right. Even with combinations of far and near. Better luck to you! The co-location might be nice. I’m a fan of corner loading to be sure. I just hope you can get them to play nice. With the room! And also hope the can’t sense where the pressure wave is coming from. I know you’ll deep dive that $hit always.

 

[Pogre]

Lol, I hear that man. Fwiw, I’ve never been able to get near field to “feel” right. Even with combinations of far and near. Better luck to you! The co-location might be nice. I’m a fan of corner loading to be sure. I just hope you can get them to play nice. With the room! And also hope the can’t sense where the pressure wave is coming from. I know you’ll deep dive that $hit always.

@Bucknekked has it dialed in very nice with his setup. I knew he had a sub, but I couldn't pinpoint where it was. He has it firing right into the back of his seat! So I know of at least one setup where it works very well. I can't pull that one off tho. It'd be very in the way. Shady too iirc, but I haven't heard his setup.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@Bucknekked has it dialed in very nice with his setup. I knew he had a sub, but I couldn't pinpoint where it was. He has it firing right into the back of his seat! So I know of at least one setup where it works very well. I can't pull that one off tho. It'd be very in the way. Shady too iirc, but I haven't heard his setup.

I do recall you guys talking about that. It’s entirely possible that I didn’t give it enough time to get dialed exactly right. I’m still a proponent of far field subs, but I’ll be the first one to cheer you on if you take a run at it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't think I've ever had walleye to eat but if its a perchy fish I'd definitely try it. Interesting wiki entry for it, too. I'm not much of a fisherman (used to go coastal fishing for halibut is about it) but around here it's a lot of catch and release which I consider pointless....if I'm gonna catch a fish I'm gonna eat the fish.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

Don't think I've ever had walleye to eat but if its a perchy fish I'd definitely try it. Interesting wiki entry for it, too. I'm not much of a fisherman (used to go coastal fishing for halibut is about it) but around here it's a lot of catch and release which I consider pointless....if I'm gonna catch a fish I'm gonna eat the fish.

Well it's in every grocery here, and I've stood at many a river with a heavy sinker hoping to pull em in, with people to my left and right at dusk... Trust a Michigan angler... You can't go wrong with walleye..!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

BTW, get this... What I found on first page of a Google search.

I'll be the first to admit almost every review I read on the thing had a similarly worded paragraph. No doubt why I was confused and came here..

Lastly, we tried the Elipson speakers with the “bridged parallel” and “bi-amp” amplification modes of the Marantz M-CR612 receiver. The first mode lets you use all four digital amplification modules to power only the A speaker terminals to benefit from 2 x 60 watts of power. The second mode allowed us to use both the A and B speaker terminals to power the mid-bass driver and tweeter of each speaker separately. This mode is the one that we enjoyed the most with the Prestige Facet 8B speakers: the lows were more dynamic, with more impact. Vocals seemed more present and the soundstage was more spacious.

Now wouldn't that confuse anyone who didn't know better..?

-Don

 

[Pogre]

Well it's in every grocery here, and I've stood at many a river with a heavy sinker hoping to pull em in, with people to my left and right at dusk... Trust a Michigan angler... You can't go wrong with walleye..!

My wife is from Michigan (the U.P.) and I've had walleye a bunch of times. All the restaurants have it on the menu up there. It's a good eating fish! I've done a little fishing up there too. Beautiful country. I grew up in PA myself. Living in Arizona for the last 25 years.

 

[Leemix]

BTW, get this... What I found on first page of a Google search.

I'll be the first to admit almost every review I read on the thing had a similarly worded paragraph. No doubt why I was confused and came here..

Lastly, we tried the Elipson speakers with the “bridged parallel” and “bi-amp” amplification modes of the Marantz M-CR612 receiver. The first mode lets you use all four digital amplification modules to power only the A speaker terminals to benefit from 2 x 60 watts of power. The second mode allowed us to use both the A and B speaker terminals to power the mid-bass driver and tweeter of each speaker separately. This mode is the one that we enjoyed the most with the Prestige Facet 8B speakers: the lows were more dynamic, with more impact. Vocals seemed more present and the soundstage was more spacious.

Now wouldn't that confuse anyone who didn't know better..?

-Don

I dont know any of the gear mentioned in the paragraph you pasted but some speakers really like bi-amping, my old kappa 80 speakers did for sure, the speakers i use now only have one set of binding posts so not been able to try. The speakers i use for surrounds (jamo concert 8) i dont remember any big difference bi- or not bi-amping when i tried on those long ago.
So its not really possible to make an all encompassing blanket statement on bi-amping working or not. Is it worth the extra expense is another question.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

BTW, get this... What I found on first page of a Google search.

I'll be the first to admit almost every review I read on the thing had a similarly worded paragraph. No doubt why I was confused and came here..

Lastly, we tried the Elipson speakers with the “bridged parallel” and “bi-amp” amplification modes of the Marantz M-CR612 receiver. The first mode lets you use all four digital amplification modules to power only the A speaker terminals to benefit from 2 x 60 watts of power. The second mode allowed us to use both the A and B speaker terminals to power the mid-bass driver and tweeter of each speaker separately. This mode is the one that we enjoyed the most with the Prestige Facet 8B speakers: the lows were more dynamic, with more impact. Vocals seemed more present and the soundstage was more spacious.

Now wouldn't that confuse anyone who didn't know better..?

-Don

Absolutely, and you're right about how much of that kind of info is out there. It's not easy sorting through all the chaff and figuring out what to keep and what to toss. I totally understand the confusion. Where my head is at now and a piece of advice I follow is to always lean toward the objective side when researching. I highly doubt that anyone could reliably tell the difference in Sq with that unit whether bi amped or straight wired. A lot of statements like that don't hold up when a DBT (double blind testing) is performed and the participants can't see which is which.

It was only a couple of years ago I decided to get serious and replace my 20 year old speakers and 10 year old receiver. One of the first things I learned is, you can find a good review on any piece of audio equipment there is, regardless of performance. Even the 'legit' review sites tend to skew their reviews in a favorable light. After all, their bread and butter is having companies send products to review. That would probably dry up pretty fast after a couple of negative reviews.

When I first started posting here I didn't warm up to advice right away, but after some time, conversations and real world experience I changed my mind and it paid off. I love my system and don't have any nagging regrets or "what ifs". I made a few errors along the way and didn't think all the way through some of my purchases. I returned and sold a couple of things and got on track tho.

 

[Pogre]

I dont know any of the gear mentioned in the paragraph you pasted but some speakers really like bi-amping, my old kappa 80 speakers did for sure, the speakers i use now only have one set of binding posts so not been able to try. The speakers i use for surrounds (jamo concert 8) i dont remember any big difference bi- or not bi-amping when i tried on those long ago.
So its not really possible to make an all encompassing blanket statement on bi-amping working or not. Is it worth the extra expense is another question.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Did you do a true dbt with those speakers to determine that? I agree with you about the blanket statement part. Bi amping using active crossovers can realize some great results. Using 2 channels from the same unit on speakers with passive crossovers is a tough sell for me tho. I've heard no difference doing it at all and I have some power to play with.

 

[Leemix]

Did you do a true dbt with those speakers to determine that? I agree with you about the blanket statement part. Bi amping using active crossovers can realize some great results. Using 2 channels from the same unit on speakers with passive crossovers is a tough sell for me tho. I've heard no difference doing it at all and I have some power to play with.

Amp used was a parasound 2205, 2kVA power transformer. Didnt do a true blind test but other family members could easily tell, even if they couldnt see how i connected, coming home through the front door. But those kappas were nasty on amps, nothing like the bookshelf klipsches OP has.

 

[lovinthehd]

BTW, get this... What I found on first page of a Google search.

I'll be the first to admit almost every review I read on the thing had a similarly worded paragraph. No doubt why I was confused and came here..

Lastly, we tried the Elipson speakers with the “bridged parallel” and “bi-amp” amplification modes of the Marantz M-CR612 receiver. The first mode lets you use all four digital amplification modules to power only the A speaker terminals to benefit from 2 x 60 watts of power. The second mode allowed us to use both the A and B speaker terminals to power the mid-bass driver and tweeter of each speaker separately. This mode is the one that we enjoyed the most with the Prestige Facet 8B speakers: the lows were more dynamic, with more impact. Vocals seemed more present and the soundstage was more spacious.

Now wouldn't that confuse anyone who didn't know better..?

-Don

I just looked at the manual for amp spec, the Marantz is only rated at 6 ohm at "60 + 60" at 1khz and THD+N of 10% and "50 + 50" at 1khz and THD+N of .7% (and that may be short hand in marketing speak for 1 channel driven at a time)....no 8 ohm rating at all but guessing it wouldn't likely be any better than 40wpc at 8 ohm and a reasonable THD across the full 20Hz-20kHz frequency range which is the normal spec we compare with (and such for the Onkyo is 8 ohm loads, both channels driven, from 20-20,000 Hz; rated 80 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 0.1 % total harmonic).

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I dont know any of the gear mentioned in the paragraph you pasted but some speakers really like bi-amping, my old kappa 80 speakers did for sure, the speakers i use now only have one set of binding posts so not been able to try. The speakers i use for surrounds (jamo concert 8) i dont remember any big difference bi- or not bi-amping when i tried on those long ago.
So its not really possible to make an all encompassing blanket statement on bi-amping working or not. Is it worth the extra expense is another question.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sorry for leaving out the reference, this was part of yesterday's discussion, and relates to my Klipsch RP-160M's. And the M-CR612 we were talking about.

The unanimous position here was not in favor, (of Bi-amping) but I was confused coming in because I'd read at least a dozen if these.