Best setup for my new toys

[KEW]

If you can return the Marantz, you should!
There is nothing special of magical about a CD player and because of the economies of scale (it costs less to manufacture 1,000's of an item than 100's of that same item), DVD players just make more sense.
If you were going to be streaming with the Marantz, were you planning to use a TV to navigate the menus (much easier)? If so, just get a Sony blu-ray player for around $150.

 

[Pogre]

I use a Xbox 1X for my Blu Ray and 4k player and an old retired laptop for ripping and playing CDs (EAC/Foobar2000). The electronics are going to have the least effect on your sound quality. That is firmly going to come down to your room, speakers and subwoofer(s). That Onkyo should work just fine powering your system. Right now that sub is the weak link in your chain and should be top priority. It's not about "having enough bass", it's about having good clean bass. A really good sub will elevate the entire system from top to bottom.

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

OK, first, thanks to everyone for helping.

But just to clarify a few things, because part of this forum has taken a turn away from my initial question and turned into a "why did you buy that..?" situation.

And please don't anyone take offense. I'm learning things and getting some ideas but I think some folks are making certain assumptions and others might maybe just hate the CD player..?

Just to clarify a few things. My initial question wasn't about how stupid I was to buy the M-CR612. Although I did admit to that possibility..! My initial question was about the bi-amping. And I really do appreciate that response. I'm feeling much more informed on that. Because if you read sh1t online they make it sound awesome. Now I know better.

Next thing, is to clarify a few points. While I do have a smart TV, it's very old and does not have all the capabilities of the newer ones. I definitely have it on my list but it might be a few years off. Currently I have only a 55" Samsung that I believe is a 2010-2013 model. It just doesn't have an extensive variety of options. - again Pandora only as far as audio streaming. **I was building the Home Theatre just for myself in my living room and I started with the AVR and speakers because they were all on sale as well as exactly what I wanted when I was ready to start. I just haven't got to the TV I want yet.

Second - big surprise, my bluray is even older than my TV. Of course it plays CDs but again it only streams Pandora. And this is where the HEOS comes in. I can play CDs thru it but I stream directly thru the AVR. And yeah, someday I need to get both upgraded. (don't forget the part where I'm a retired, (though not invalid veteran) and $ is limited.

*** Anyway, the other point lost here, and partly my fault... I always planned the Onkyo to go with the Home Theatre cause.... We just because. And since it's close to the AVRs stats for an additional 2 channels.

I also said location wasn't important because I didn't want the answers to go off into mixing the Home Theatre and the new setup. They're going in different areas. Think Home Theatre on Living room, and this new setup in the basement.

Yes, I could get another DVD/Bluray, but the one I want will cost nearly as much and is only be using it for streaming unless I get a whole new TV in the area I want music. Sure I guess that's plausible but why buy things I don't want or need just because they can do one function I'm after. The M-CR612 does exactly what I want, I believe by just doing what it's designed for.

Assuming of course I get enough power from the lower wattage. Which I'm betting I will which is why I pulled the trigger.

Lastly to my new friend(s) telling me it's probably the phone settings, I have considered that but have yet to hunt down exactly which setting. Though now thinking it might just be the Atmos setting. Anyway, I get that and I'm working through it because on occasion, I do still out of habit go thru the phone.

So keep the advice coming but realize, my TV is near useless. Bluray is barely any better and has only Pandora, and no OSD itself for physical disc playback. I don't have or plan to get an xbox.

In the end, I wanted 1 piece of equipment completely separated from the AVR system. That could stream any service I choose, play my physical CDs, and to drive my RP-160M's.

So if you really still think I should send back the M-CR612, I get that. If you still think I should just buy a DVD/Bluray, I get that. Though I'm not sure I see the advantage there because my new player when I get one has to plug into the AVR system, and the old one is a hand me down promised.

Like I said, don't anyone be upset, I'm listening to everyone. Taking it all in and want more. I just want to make sure I've given ally the information since the post has shifted from the Bi-amp question to more of a 'send back the M-CR612 and just buy a DVD"

And since the shift has happened, in this conversation, why do people ever buy fancy separates and DACs and amps if all you need is a (I'm guessing) $200-$300 DVD player. - - and why do people strive for lossless and higher bitrates if a lousy 126 kbps of Pandora is just fine..?

Turns out I'm getting many questions answered and a few new ones cropping up.

Please be patient with me...!

-Don

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

I use a Xbox 1X for my Blu Ray and 4k player and an old retired laptop for ripping and playing CDs (EAC/Foobar2000). The electronics are going to have the least effect on your sound quality. That is firmly going to come down to your room, speakers and subwoofer(s). That Onkyo should work just fine powering your system. Right now that sub is the weak link in your chain and should be top priority. It's not about "having enough bass", it's about having good clean bass. A really good sub will elevate the entire system from top to bottom.

Thanks for your input. This sub just fits my budget at the time, and I've heard it before, but people here seem to absolutely despise it. Can anyone tell me why..? Just because it's an inexpensive 10..? Because it's Klipsch..???? I'm not going to get proper acoustics in this setup, but I want a sub to take over where the Bookshelves stop and just give a little thump.

But folks really, really hate this sub. I'm very curious why. I guess you can offer a substitute as well for under $300 which was my budget.

Thanks.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks for your input. This sub just fits my budget at the time, and I've heard it before, but people here seem to absolutely despise it. Can anyone tell me why..? Just because it's an inexpensive 10..? Because it's Klipsch..???? I'm not going to get proper acoustics in this setup, but I want a sub to take over where the Bookshelves stop and just give a little thump.

But folks really, really hate this sub. I'm very curious why. I guess you can offer a substitute as well for under $300 which was my budget.

Thanks.

Because compared to other brands my experience from owning two 10" Klipsch subs is that they're boomy and distorted. I thought I was good with them and to me they sounded just fine. A couple of the guys here managed to twist my arm and convinced me that I could realize some major improvements so I took a leap of faith and ordered some good subs. If you can get away from the expensive electronics (they won't make any difference in sound quality) and put it into your sub budget you're golden.

Holy cow. I never thought a subwoofer (or 2 of them) could make such a difference. At first I thought the new subs weren't performing as well. They were too quiet. After some more listening and balancing it struck me. They were quieter. They were quieter because all the distortion I had gotten used to was gone. Even my main speakers sound better. Good, clean bass is an area that is so often overlooked because folks think if it's loud enough and makes the walls rattle that's all that's needed.

Now I know better and when I see someone who's in the exact same boat I was in not long ago I do my best to impress upon them my experience. It was a very literal and true "night and day" difference. I was floored. You have to experience it to understand.

Nobody here thinks your stupid. If someone did say that, please point out the post. As far as I'm concerned the fact that you're here asking questions and seeking advice tells me that you're NOT stupid, just a little misinformed. That's okay. You're getting some real good solid advice right now and seem resistant to it due to some preconceived notions. I didn't like being told that my speakers and subwoofers sucked when I got here, but after I got over being butthurt and applied some of the knowledge that was shared with me I realized that my speakers and subs did in fact, suck. I'm so glad I gave in and listened because my system is world's away better now and my goal is to share my positive experience with everyone.

 

[KEW]

HEOS is a valid argument for the Marantz if you are committed to that.

Otherwise, the Sony will cover the CD player and streaming! If you buy in the $150 price range, it should also get you playback of SACD's (but verify that for the model you look at).
The long term durability of Marantz disc players has generally not been as good as the Sonys (even though the Sonys cost much less). I have a Sony CD player from the early 80's which still works fine! It is their bread and butter while Disc players are an "accessory" for Marantz.
The main thing is we have learned that the difference between a high dollar CD player and a low dollar DVD player is minimal when it comes to actually hearing a difference. You might be excited about that really cool looking new CD player and be convinced it sounds better (that is very human),but if you were blind to which was which, you would be hard pressed to hear a difference and without having some over- the-top speakers or using high quality headphones, I would not expect there to ba an audible difference.
It sounds like you are looking at an expensive BD player when the time comes and I say save your money. If you want better sound quality look at changes to your room, speakers, and/or subwoofer. Those are the places where you will make a decisive difference.
This is one of the most relevant points we can make to help people best spend their money - don't overbuy on electronics! Instead do research and make sure you have "good enough" electronics to power your speakers, ut then spend the extra money on the things that make a difference. Many of us here have spent big bucks on high dollar amplifiers. We fall prey to the excitement and convince ourselves that the new gear is a huge improvement, but after the "honeymoon" is over we pull out the old AVR and hook it up and realize it sounds as good as the high dollar amp (I am assuming the AVR was capable of driving the speakers properly).
I am a fan of your Klipsch speakers! I think they represent great value for their price. One thing you should know is if you decide to switch speakers, you may well need more than the 60WPC of the Onkyo! So if you ever change speakers (aside from switching to other Klipsch - which are efficient) you should also consider whether you would need another AVR/amp.
Simply put, if I see someone buying a Marantz CD player/streamer/amp, I see more money being spent than should.. An inexpensive Sony covers the bases shy of the Amp section (that you don't need). Also, for streaming, an Amazon fire stick or Roku provides a much nicer system for not much money and I have always gotten a real world improvement by changing my Roku every 2-3 years (snappy operation and streaming resolution more than sound quality). I consider a TV or BD Player more of a long term purchase and will keep a TV for over 10 years and a BD player for over 6. I definitely would not want to be using that 6 year old streaming device and it seems a waste to replace it because the streaming device is getting old enough to frustrate.
Could you get a Roku or Firestick and pull your DVD player from the HT room and buy a new HT BD player?
Understand, I have two Marantz AVR's and really like them, but AVR's are what Marantz does best.
For me. If you want a CD player - go Sony DVD
If you want an AVR, go Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer, (or maybe Sony - they are still proving themselves as a low end AVR company)
If you want a streamer, go Roku or Amazon
Combining them all into one is only a good idea if you are looking for a compact system to fit on a shelf or something!

I think I have adequately explained why you are getting the feedback you are.
We will do our best to answer your specific questions, but it is hard to look away when we see "low hanging fruit" like you subwoofer which is a clear step down in quality for your speakers! Buy the other stuff if you like, but replacing that subwoofer is the biggest thing that will improve your sound. Most Klipsh subwoofers are not well designed, but they do have a quality sub in their R-112SW (avoid the R12SW!)
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-6onixHHSGke/p_714R112SW/Klipsch-Reference-R-112SW.html?XVINQ=GLX&awkw=683188894075&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=343141479351&awdv=c&awug=9010826&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoKzsBRC5ARIsAITcwXEXjZq8GEebrDd_eSLk8O0TilYj9LZiP3vp5iE_JtkM5ORfi3OjXKgaArOiEALw_wcB

 

[Pogre]

I guess you can offer a substitute as well for under $300 which was my budget.

In my opinion, 2 of these will walk all over that Klipsch sub. I would still nudge you toward SVS, Hsu, Rythmik and a couple of others first tho. The gains are worth it.

 

[Pogre]

they do have a quality sub in their R-112SW (avoid the R12SW!)

This is very important if you go with another Klipsch subwoofer. Do not get the R12SW. I have been seeing positive things about the R-112SW, but only those models (R-112SW and R-115SW specifically).

 

[KEW]

In my opinion, 2 of these will walk all over that Klipsch sub. I would still nudge you toward SVS, Hsu, Rythmik and a couple of others first tho. The gains are worth it.

I was going to suggest a pair of the very simular Dayton Audio SUB-1200's at $140 each. Note that the price works out about the same (depending on how far away you live) The Dayton include shipping in the $140 price and the $90/ea. Monoprice cost me $50 each to ship to Ga.
Dan, know that there are big benefits to using dual subwoofers. It has to do with room resonances that occur once the dimensions of your room start becoming equal or smaller than the wavelength of the frequency being produced.

 

[KEW]

This is very important if you go with another Klipsch subwoofer. Do not get the R12SW. I have been seeing positive things about the R-112SW, but only those models (R-112SW and R-115SW specifically).

Yeah, I don't know if they hired a subwoofer designer, or if they found one of their speaker engineers who has a good knack for bass, but it is good to see a competitive product coming from a mainstream speaker manufacturer.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, I don't know if they hired a subwoofer designer, or if they found one of their speaker engineers who has a good knack for bass, but it is good to see a competitive product coming from a mainstream speaker manufacturer.

I never suggest them because I haven't heard them yet and I explained my experience with Klipsch subs. I do however, trust your opinion and know you wouldn't suggest something that was sub par or not a good value.

 

[Pogre]

For the record, @KEW is who pointed me toward the speaker system I now own and do not regret the purchase! Super happy with my SVS Ultra speakers!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

OK, I think I'm starting to catch up... Just FYI nobody called me stupid but me, in a hyperbolic sense, because it seemed I was getting specific hate on the M-CR612. And being new to the forum what may have come across as resistance was likely more of my trying to understand everyone " going after the low-hanging fruit as you put it" when that wasn't my question. But it was why I listed everything I had.

Also remember I have a background more suited to car audio, so, that does color my thought process somewhat.

-Pogre, I'll definitely keep that link if I decide to return the sub. Though I seriously doubt two 12s will fit the space I'm working with. And just another thought, (much like the speaker wire I got right from my car experience) a tethered sub would need maybe a 35' RCA. And in my experience, and assuming it translates to home audio, the longer your cables the more trouble you're asking for. I'm sure you know the reasons. - this is not to say I'm being resistant, just trying to explain why I settled on the Sub I chose. 1.) Wireless in the space I have. No long connections wrapping around walls, and the ability to move it if necessary. I don't have a lot of options on placement but I thought I could find the right one. 2.) I already have Iso stands for it, figuring I might get some boom. This is 1 if a leftover pair do I didn't have to buy it. And 3.) lastly (again from car audio experience,) it's always a good idea to match manufacturers as their components are usually designed to work together.

So it's less about my not wanting to hear it (obviously I came here for a reason) it was more about trying to understand what I was reading without details behind it. Because honestly I thought I had worked everything out ahead of time, with the iso stand in the wireless and the blah blah blah.

And Kew... Boss..!
Of course I get everything you wrote. Unfortunately you actually nailed in that one line. ".. Unless you're looking for an all in one book shelf setup...". Ugh, actually that's exactly what's happening here.

This is by far, not the system I hope to have in my "if you hear music, turn and walk away" room of 10 years from now, but I did think a few components (those speakers) might still be viable.

Truth is I want a room to sound nearly as good as my truck if not better. Obviously I have a decent system in my Suburban. But aside from stealing the TV in the living room I had few options. What I could do though was take the semi furnished half of my basement, and claim it with a recliner and the Fireplace mantle.

So I got the speakers 1st. They may or may not have been on sale, but the RM-600? newer version was out and these were suddenly in my price range. I did some wick research and though I figured it wouldnt be the dumbest thing ever, I started thinking I'd find another Marantz deal like I got on the 6013, and I'd just have a bunch of matching items around the house. (same thing happened with the 6013 as the speakers. 6014 comes out and suddenly the 6013 is half price.

Anyway I didn't find it. A Marantz in my price range for this 1st step towards my new listening area. But I stumbled on the Onkyo, and while I wasn't overly familiar with the name, the specs were right, and every search I ever did returned an Onkyo product. That told me it had to be decent because the search returns were not performance complaints on forums. So $279 and I'm halfway home.

In the end you're both right about everything, I totally get that. And I need to learn so it'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

I can keep the sub unopened and try one of the wired 12s. I know it's not the same but I have two 12s in the truck and that's a lot. Probably more than I need for the space but I also get the room acoustic aspect. Have to completely rethink placement. Even with just one.

What troubles me most though is the DVD/Bluray. You were right in the sense that I want a decent 4k option and that's why I mentioned the HDMI earlier. I have lots of HDMI but that comment was forward thinking for the 4k Bluray and TV upgrade. Anyway, I completely understand.

If I have one last thought here, on that part, it's this. Is the M-CR612 really a terrible choice, or are you trying to save me money..? I mean I told you the reasons I did what I did. Now I just want all the info I can get before I start rethinking every aspect of my choices.

And rest assured...! LMAO when it's fine for the TV and Blu-ray I'll come hunt you guys down before I do another Google search, or read "These are the top Five 4k TVs for 2020..!" articles that flood my feeds.

 

[Pogre]

It's not that the M-CR612 is a terrible choice so much as that is where you can save a few bucks and reallocate it toward more meaningful purchases that will have a positive impact on your sound (speakers and sub(s)). You did good with your speakers, imo. The RP-160Ms are solid speakers so I don't think you need to worry about that.

I really like Kew's suggestion of going with $150-ish Sony Blu Ray player. And returning the M-CR612. Again, not that it's a bad unit. You're just not really gaining anything from the added expense.

I have background in car audio too and there are some parallels, but it's not the same. I had a beautiful sounding system in my car and it was my reference for good sound for the longest time. My home system has surpassed it. It's all in the details. The signal path is not nearly as big a contributer (electronics/wiring, etc) as the actual speakers, subs and room. If the electronics are competently designed and built, there really should be no difference in sound quality from one to the next. The differences tend to lie in build quality, engineering, materials, features, etc.

 

[Pogre]

I can keep the sub unopened and try one of the wired 12s. I know it's not the same but I have two 12s in the truck and that's a lot. Probably more than I need for the space but I also get the room acoustic aspect. Have to completely rethink placement. Even with just one.

Also, I don't know if you know this, you can buy a wireless adapter/transmitter for pretty much any sub.

You have a pair of 12s in your vehicle and are wondering if the same would be overkill in your room? Surely your room is bigger than the cab in your suburban? What made you decide to go with a pair of 12s in there to begin with? Would you skimp on subwoofers for your vehicle to get a fancier head unit?

 

[Pogre]

I know this is completely unrealistic, but if you got 4 of those Monoprice subs you'd have some SLAMMIN' bass up in there!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

N

Also, I don't know if you know this, you can buy a wireless adapter/transmitter for pretty much any sub.

You have a pair of 12s in your vehicle and are wondering if the same would be overkill in your room? Surely your room is bigger than the cab in your suburban? What made you decide to go with a pair of 12s in there to begin with? Would you skimp on subwoofers for your vehicle to get a fancier head unit?

No, but I'd milk my stock head unit if that's what I had until I could afford the one I wanted. Of course that's building backwards in a car but you know that and again I take your point. But also in the truck as you know the whole rear acts in a way as an extension of your enclosure if done properly. But yeah, also in a way I did think a single well placed 10 could do it.

Frankly the truck thumps with a bridged amp, and I did think that like I've said (apparently mistakenly) that I'm not building a world class listening room but just wanted the speakers crossed over so, and just enough to get a right snap on Limelight, or a decent rumble on Glycerine.

Could be part of my problem was too much description of the equipment and not mentioning much about the room. Honestly it's not that big. But it does have the advantage of being essentially empty albiet with only 3 walls and an open space. Unless or until I add a wall.

Anyway, point is I'd love a proper room, acoustically tuned, but I started this almost like you would a vehicle of you knew the shop and they didn't mind working in stages. I bought one piece I knew I could reporpose (moving the Onkyo eventually to the AVR driving rear surrounds, another bit thinking it wasn't perfect but could work till I was better situated (oddly the sub - my biggest mistake it seems) and the centerpiece around which to build - the Klipsch.

I wonder if in part I didn't get ahead of myself wanting to finish the AVR setup and that talked myself into M-612. And one last piece of info I realize I hadn't mentioned is that I had the old sub from my old AVR setup on the Onkyo with the Klipsch and while they sounded great the sub was total crap. I figured the Klipsch 10 had to be better. LOL (Don't even ask about this old sub. Some old down firing thing that came with my 20 year old HK AVR. Somehow over the years I guess I managed to tweak things enough that it got by..? But when that system came down the speakers and satellites might be salvageable (I just boxed them in the basement) this sub is gonna be a coffee table..!

 

[IansDad88(Don)]

BTW, to be clear, I'm already seriously thinking how to revamp the sub setup. Your efforts haven't been in vain...

(the 2 not the 4 though...!) LOL - at least until I start losing my hearing. Then I'll get the 4 and use them like Beethoven, and just feel what I can't hear anymore.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you're going the right direction. It's often more beneficial in asking advice before purchasing, too

 

[Leemix]

You should be able to have a lot of fun with what you have now, considering a sub upgrade in the future, why not but it might be nice at a later date when you can enjoy the wow this is better feeling again after getting it with what you have now. Double the fun.
A 10 inch running a little subdued for music should give your klipsches a little more body and sound bigger without shouting im here! And then later if you want to spend more on a better quality sub you will get even more body and snap.
Enjoy the journey and each step, your klipsch sub will add to the experience.