Refoaming Woofers (Snell Type E Series II)

[TLS Guy]

UPDATE: I have run into a couple of snags along the way:
1. The latest Windows update borked my computer. I have spent way too much time recovering it, leading to a lack of time to address my Snells.
2. The Silver Flute replacement woofers have a smaller basket assembly, meaning that my cutouts are too big to accommodate them.

The speaker assembly otherwise looks pretty much the same. After some additional thought and research, I have decided to fabricate an adapter to fill in the open space left by the replacement woofers.

Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions?

You have not provided enough information. Does the driver fall through the opening or is it that there is not enough of the surround for the screws. This makes a huge difference to how you approach this problem. I'm inclined to think this needs steel fabrication. Can you provide exact dimensions of the driver surround, including the dimensions of the existing hole, and the dado and location of the mounting holes? To make this work will be difficult but not impossible I suspect.

 

[TLS Guy]

How about contacting https://www.atomichifiandtv.com/
They purchased all the Snell rights and parts when they folded, they may have the replacement drivers you need.

If you read the thread from the beginning instead of aimlessly posting, then just may be you might be able to make an intelligent contribution.

 

[Old-Timer]

You have not provided enough information. Does the driver fall through the opening or is it that there is not enough of the surround for the screws. This makes a huge difference to how you approach this problem. I'm inclined to think this needs steel fabrication. Can you provide exact dimensions of the driver surround, including the dimensions of the existing hole, and the dado and location of the mounting holes? To make this work will be difficult but not impossible I suspect.

The woofers do not fall through the cutout, and there appears to be enough area into which I can drive the screws. The cutout is 8.5 inches on the outside diameter and 7.5 on the inside. Additionally, the basket of the original woofers (SEEAS H170) had an outside diameter of 8 7/16 inches and an inside diameter of 7 13/16 inches. The replacement woofers (Silver Flute) O.D is 8 inches and I.D. 7 3/8 inches. The cones of both speakers are identical: 6 inches at the outside diameter, and 5.5 inches at the inside edge of the foam surround.

My intention is to fabricate an adapter (spacer) from wood of the appropriate thickness, which will fill in the gap between the outside edge of the woofer and the outer diameter of the cutout. This will also aid me in centering the woofer in its opening.

I believe that this will be a good way to proceed, but I always look for input from others prior to implementing something with which I am not completely comfortable.

 

[TLS Guy]

The woofers do not fall through the cutout, and there appears to be enough area into which I can drive the screws. The cutout is 8.5 inches on the outside diameter and 7.5 on the inside. Additionally, the basket of the original woofers (SEEAS H170) had an outside diameter of 8 7/16 inches and an inside diameter of 7 13/16 inches. The replacement woofers (Silver Flute) O.D is 8 inches and I.D. 7 3/8 inches. The cones of both speakers are identical: 6 inches at the outside diameter, and 5.5 inches at the inside edge of the foam surround.

My intention is to fabricate an adapter (spacer) from wood of the appropriate thickness, which will fill in the gap between the outside edge of the woofer and the outer diameter of the cutout. This will also aid me in centering the woofer in its opening.

I believe that this will be a good way to proceed, but I always look for input from others prior to implementing something with which I am not completely comfortable.

From what you now say, I think that plan will be fine. Let us know the results!

 

[Wooshkuh]

Late edition to the feed here but I wanted to add my 2 cents. I've been refoaming for years with great success. I have done side by side tests with dozens of models with one cabinet redone and the other with original drivers and get basically identical sound. These guys are too obsessed with the numbers and aren't trusting their ears. I recently refoamed a set of Snell Type E II and they sound amazing! Tested beside a set of Polk Audio Monitor 11T towers and the Snells sounded tight and neutral in comparison. If you still have those original drivers I would most definitely try a refoam and hear them sing!

 

[Verdinut]

Late edition to the feed here but I wanted to add my 2 cents. I've been refoaming for years with great success. I have done side by side tests with dozens of models with one cabinet redone and the other with original drivers and get basically identical sound. These guys are too obsessed with the numbers and aren't trusting their ears. I recently refoamed a set of Snell Type E II and they sound amazing! Tested beside a set of Polk Audio Monitor 11T towers and the Snells sounded tight and neutral in comparison. If you still have those original drivers I would most definitely try a refoam and hear them sing!

Do you have the equipment to test the speaker drivers that you refoam the surround on? They do have to show T/S parameters close to the specs published by the manufacturer. The replacement foam has to have the same characteristics as the original one. Otherwise, you cannot get good results.

 

[Wooshkuh]

I don't have specialized equipment for getting precise specifications. Nor do I think I need it. I trust my ears. Your reply is precisely why I came to give my two cents. In my opinion the cost and effort involved in replacing foam is minimal and is worth a try. All of you in here were all very discouraging to someone so could have a very rewarding experience fixing something

 

[Wooshkuh]

Result was an amazing speaker pair

 

[Anonymouse]

Reading this thread was like watching a historical sh1tsh0w unfold.

At $196 a pop, I understand not being able to afford brand new factory drivers from Atomichifiandtv. The next best and most cost effective solution would have been for the OP to have bought a foam kit for $18 from Simply Speakers or Springfield Speakers, or gone the Audio Note route and paid $58 plus shipping from the UK. But because the result might not have exactly the replicated factory settings, he instead was 'counseled' to purchase totally different woofers with rubber surround which I guarantee would have deviated even worse than refoam job.

So instead of $18 foams, he purchased $38 woofers with rubber surrounds which did not fit properly. He then had to fabricate an adapter in order to make the woofer fit but somehow expected them to sound factory fresh.

Insane, no?

This thread was a clear case of blatant audio-malpractice. It appears that other than @Russdawg1, absolutely no one in this entire thread had an ounce of common friggin sense. I just hope the op saved his original woofers

Oh and hello all. This is my first post

 

[Wooshkuh]

You must not have seen my reply! You are echoing my thoughts exactly

I have refoamed this exact speaker set with marvelous results and got pretty annoyed reading all these "experts" discourage someone!

Cheers

 

[Verdinut]

Reading this thread is like watching a sh1tsh0w unfold.

At $196 a pop, I understand not being able to afford brand new factory drivers from Atomichifiandtv. The next best and most cost effective solution would have been for the OP to have bought a foam kit for $18 from Simply Speakers or Springfield Speakers, or gone the Audio Note route and paid $58 plus shipping from the UK. But because the result might not have exactly the replicated factory settings, he instead was 'counseled' to purchase totally different woofers with rubber surround which I guarantee would have deviated even worse than refoam job.

So instead of $18 foams, he purchased $38 woofers with rubber surrounds which did not fit properly. He then had to fabricate an adapter in order to make the woofer fit but somehow expected them to sound factory fresh.

Insane, no?

This thread was a clear case of blatant audio-malpractice. It appears that other than @Russdawg1, absolutely no one in this entire thread had an ounce of common friggin sense. I just hope the op saved his original woofers

Oh and hello all. This is my first post

You are the one with no Fukking sense! And if you continue with your dumb comments, you will be expelled fast!

 

[Anonymouse]

You must not have seen my reply! You are echoing my thoughts exactly

I have refoamed this exact speaker set with marvelous results and got pretty annoyed reading all these "experts" discourage someone!

Cheers

Oh I agree with you 100%. Changing components will change the sound of any speaker. When talking about a Snell, a company that touted that the frequency response for each and every speaker was hand tuned to within 0.5dB of the reference master, changing woofers, tweeters or recapping all willy nilly is a guaranteed way to destroy the storied 'Snell sound'

I refoamed my E3s and my middle aged ears were/are in awe

 

[Anonymouse]

You are the one with no Fukking sense!

A hit dog will holler ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And if you continue with your dumb comments, you will be expelled fast!

Expelled for what? Pointing out the obvious? That there were a string of puzzling and quite frankly hastily thought out (read: stupid) actions that were proposed to @Old-Timer in this thread?

Let's look at the reasons given for not refoaming. This was the only sensible comment:

Refoam them, see how the sound. If they aren’t “perfect” then you are only $40 in and can get the new woofers from them.

My guess, most couldn’t tell the refoam from the original.

You commented:

The situation is that identical foam characteristics are probably no longer available. That means you would not be to obtain as good a performance with a different kind of foam composition.

There was this sensible comment:

If the new foam has a different compliance to the old foam, then yes, it will affect the sound. It will significantly change the T/S parameters of the driver. No, you can not change drivers and return the speakers to original performance, not remotely close.

Solid observation. But then he and nearly everyone else steered the OP towards 30 something dollar Silver Flute replacements woofers with rubber surrounds which then needed to be jerry-rigged in order to fit properly

Refoaming is akin to putting 89 octane fuel in a car in which 91 octane is recommended. You will be right back "in the game" with a barely perceptible loss of performance.

Swapping out the factory woofers for low cost replacements, however, is akin to dropping a Chevy Chevette engine into a Corvette. It still looks like a Vette but it sure as hell won't perform like one.

Now I am 99.999999999% sure that none of us are anywhere near as talented as Peter Snell was so why push anyone to "improve" on his designs? And yes the E2 was designed before he died. So in the future I suggest that if someone with limited funds needs to repair a Snell speaker, don't push them into creating a Franken-speaker. Refoam it with the correct foam w/oversize roll until he/she can afford to purchase the factory replacements. Additionally if it requires replacement tweeters, they come with properly tuned replacement crossovers

And for the love of God and everything holy, don't ever suggest "upgrading" the crossover on your own. Not only will you kill the sound, you will kill your love for the speaker. And then when you invariably sell it because the love is gone, you will kill your resale value as well because anyone seeking Snell speakers will always look for original components and will literally RUN from non-factory substitutions and/or "upgrades".