Yamaha Owners’ Thread (AVR, Pre-pro, Amp)

[Otto Plyot]

I finally heard back from Yamaha in an email. He said:

Under "Configuration"
-Set Power Amp Assign to BASIC
-Set all speakers to SMALL, with 80Hz crossover
-Set Subwoofer to USE

Under "Level"
-Set all speakers to 0dB

Under "Distance"
-Set all speakers to 10 feet

Under "Parametric EQ"
-Set Parametric EQ to THROUGH
-You will also see the YPAO-generated EQ presets. These can not be deleted short of a factory reset.

I may take the YPAO results for Speaker Levels and plug them into the Through, if I can, and see if there is a noticeable difference.

The sub is set to maximum (180Hz) using it's own x-over control. That way I don't lose anything sent to the sub. I've increased the sub volume, using it's own volume control, to about 75% of max which seems to work fine, so far. Of course the other x-overs can be set to something other than 80Hz but that's a good place to start.

This is all pretty much what you said so I'm going to stick with this for now and see how my ears like it. Then I'll play around with DSur/Straight for Comcast network HDTV audio and possibly DTS Neural:X for the UHD/BD and ATV4k.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'll play around with DSur/Straight for Comcast network HDTV audio and possibly DTS Neural:X for the UHD/BD and ATV4k.

NeuralX seems to be more active than DSU. So if you use DSU and you don't seem to hear as much surround sounds and Center Channel Presence, try NeuralX. That's the reason I use NeuralX for just about everything.

I've seen NeuralX do more overhead effects (rain, thunder, aircrafts) from plain DD/DTS than a lot of the Atmos movies.

Of course, if NeuralX does TOO MUCH on a few movies, then I would use DSU.

 

[Otto Plyot]

Got it. I watched S1E1 of Another Life on Netflix last night. I figured a space movie would be a nice general test of what I've done so far, and it did sound a lot better, even with Straight. The next step is to try Neural X and see how that goes. If bueno, then I'm gonna try to adjust the Speaker Levels to what YPAO calculated (no EQ) and see how that works. There is a slight volume difference with 0.0dB as opposed to the levels from YPAO:Flat so we'll see.

Thanks for the guidance! Audio Pharmacist huh? My son is a Pharmascist, but he leaves the Audio up to me (retired chemist) .

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Got it. I watched S1E1 of Another Life on Netflix last night. I figured a space movie would be a nice general test of what I've done so far, and it did sound a lot better, even with Straight. The next step is to try Neural X and see how that goes. If bueno, then I'm gonna try to adjust the Speaker Levels to what YPAO calculated (no EQ) and see how that works. There is a slight volume difference with 0.0dB as opposed to the levels from YPAO:Flat so we'll see.

Thanks for the guidance! Audio Pharmacist huh? My son is a Pharmascist, but he leaves the Audio up to me (retired chemist) .

There are not many audioholics in any field.

 

[Otto Plyot]

True dat!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is a comparison between YPAO FLAT (blue) vs THROUGH (red).

FLAT (blue) looks much better. But THROUGH sounds much better to me.

Here is MANUAL with NO EQ from 80Hz-20kHz, but manual bass boost from 15Hz-80Hz. It doesn’t look the best (big 40Hz bass peak), but it sure sounds the best to me. FLAT just sounds "bright" to me.

 

[Otto Plyot]

Somebody on another Forum posted this link for me for online audio tests if you don't have the equipment: https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_index.php. You can either run the tests from your laptop of download the files and run via USB is you contribute a small fee to the site. Lots of tests that I don't really understand but at least you can actually hear where your speakers start to fall off and adjust your x-over accordingly.

I just had an interesting call from Yamaha who basically said to do what I've already done if unhappy with YPAO. Just plug the initial YPAO settings into Through (minus EQ) as a baseline and then adjust to taste. He didn't seem to be too impressed with DSur or even DTS Neural:X because of the audio manipulation that goes on, especially if one doesn't have Atmos (which I don't, yet). He said I'd be surprised on how many folks just use 7-channel stereo for a lot of sources because they want to hear the sound coming from all of the speakers. It all comes down to personal preference and how discerning your ears are, which mine aren't anymore. Too many loud concerts during my youth . I think I'll just tie down the basics and then maybe play around with DSur/DTS Neural and see if I can hear a difference once I have a solid foundation.

I love expanding my knowlege so that has been a great educational experience. Thanks for your time.

 

[Otto Plyot]

I've finally modified my settings but I can't get Through to be listed under Speaker Setup in the Scene settings. It still indicates PEQ YPAO:Flat, and when I go back to Speaker Setup, the PEQ reverts to YPAO:Flat (check marked) even though I had initially checked Through. How can I be sure that I'm using Through with my Scenes, with the modified settings (Distance, Cross over, Speaker Level, etc) and not the YPAO:Flat settings?

Do I need to turn Speaker Setup off under the Scene settings, go back to Setup -> Speaker -> PEQ, check Through, and then go back to Speaker Setup under Scene, turn it back on, and then press the appropriate Scene button on the front of the A-780 until Setup Complete is displayed?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've finally modified my settings but I can't get Through to be listed under Speaker Setup in the Scene settings. It still indicates PEQ YPAO:Flat, and when I go back to Speaker Setup, the PEQ reverts to YPAO:Flat (check marked) even though I had initially checked Through. How can I be sure that I'm using Through with my Scenes, with the modified settings (Distance, Cross over, Speaker Level, etc) and not the YPAO:Flat settings?

Do I need to turn Speaker Setup off under the Scene settings, go back to Setup -> Speaker -> PEQ, check Through, and then go back to Speaker Setup under Scene, turn it back on, and then press the appropriate Scene button on the front of the A-780 until Setup Complete is displayed?

I never used the SCENES feature - I probably use less features than many people.

But I would think that if you go into Manual Setup --> YPAO and it shows "FLAT", then you are NOT using THROUGH.

 

[Otto Plyot]

That's my feeling as well. However, as far as Distance, x-over, Speaker Loudness, those I changed and it sounds great so I'm not sure what is going on. It certainly doesn't sound like it did when I was just using the YPAO:Flat and 80Hz x-over for everything. One would think that I could enable Through and then save that to the Scene Settings under PEQ but I can't seem to figure out how to do that. I do have a Support ticket but it could take days for them to respond. The education continues.......

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...it sounds great so I'm not sure what is going on. It certainly doesn't sound like it did when I was just using the YPAO:Flat...

Let us know what they say.

But in the mean time, if it sounds great and better than just using YPAO FLAT, then I would keep on enjoying it.

For me, there is an absolutely clear night-and-day distinction/difference between FLAT and THROUGH or MANAUL-NO-EQ.

So if it sounds like THROUGH and not like FLAT, then you are definitely listening to THROUGH, even if the SCENES display may show something else.

 

[Otto Plyot]

I watched a space drama last night with lots of sound effects and dialog and it sounded really sweet. I just want to make sure that even though the Scene Settings indicates YPAO:Flat that I'm not using the EQ nor the Large speaker setting that YPAO decided was best for me. I did talk to Level 1 support but they couldn't help me so now I'm waiting for a call back from a Level 2. It's probably going to be a slap in the forehead once I understand what I'm not doing correctly

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I watched a space drama last night with lots of sound effects and dialog and it sounded really sweet. I just want to make sure that even though the Scene Settings indicates YPAO:Flat that I'm not using the EQ nor the Large speaker setting that YPAO decided was best for me. I did talk to Level 1 support but they couldn't help me so now I'm waiting for a call back from a Level 2. It's probably going to be a slap in the forehead once I understand what I'm not doing correctly

What are the SCENES features for?

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't know if you Yam-heads noticed but Gene is selling his CX-A5100 and MX-A5000 https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/fs-yamaha-cx-a5100-mx-a5000-for-3k-shipped-in-usa.115729/#post-1337792

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't know if you Yam-heads noticed but Gene is selling his CX-A5100 and MX-A5000 https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/fs-yamaha-cx-a5100-mx-a5000-for-3k-shipped-in-usa.115729/#post-1337792

I'm keeping an eye on what he's replacing them with.

CX-A5200/MX-A5200 or something else.

 

[Otto Plyot]

What are the SCENES features for?

My understanding is that the 7 Scenes are pre-set for various sources and you can enable/disable certain features that you want for that source. Scene 7 for example is the tuner, so you can set up which radio stations you want to listen to with various options. However, you can modify and rename the Scenes as you see fit.

For example, Scene 1 for me is Comcast HDTV (local broadcast stations only). So I have it set to use a specific input on my tv/receiver, audio format, and specific video settings for my C8. I've done the same thing for Scene 2 (the UHD/BD player), and Scene 3 (ATV4k). That way I could just click on the Scene buttons on the Yamaha remote and have my source all setup for how I like it. Or click on Scene 7 when I want to listen to internet radio. Using the Harmony remote sort of eliminates the need for the Yamaha remote and the Scene buttons but when I say Watch TV on the Harmony, I can see the front panel of the Yamaha indicate Comcast (Scene 1).

 

[snakeeyes]

I haven’t tried Scenes on RXA2060, but I normally just push Sur Decode (DSU) for Cable TV and Netflix and then just push Straight when listening to music or Blu-ray/ UHD

The DSU knows if Dolby 5.1 etc is there and doesn’t mess with it, so no harm leaving in that mode vs flipping back and forth with some channels 5.1 and others 2.0 on Cable.

 

[Otto Plyot]

I haven’t tried Scenes on RXA2060, but I normally just push Sur Decode (DSU) for Cable TV and Netflix and then just push Straight when listening to music or Blu-ray/ UHD

The DSU knows if Dolby 5.1 etc is there and doesn’t mess with it, so no harm leaving in that mode vs flipping back and forth with some channels 5.1 and others 2.0 on Cable.

Yep. Currently I'm just using Straight for all of my sources. The goal is to nail down the basics first and then try DSur or DTS Neural and see what the difference are between the three. If, for example, I prefer DTS Neural for streaming and UHD/BD, then I can "add" that to my Scene options and never have to mess around with pushing any extra buttons other than to turn on a source (Scene) and volume using my Harmony remote.

Scenes are kind of like large presets that you have options to customize. I'm thinking about doing what you do and that's use DSur for just Comcast local HDTV stations only (no streaming) and possibly DTS Neural for UHD/BD and the ATV4k. I don't have Atmos so I'm not sure if there would be any real advantage in using that over Straight. It's all in the ears I guess. I just want to make sure that the basic audio settings are using Through, with my changes, and not YPAO:Flat

 

[snakeeyes]

Yep. Currently I'm just using Straight for all of my sources. The goal is to nail down the basics first and then try DSur or DTS Neural and see what the difference are between the three. If, for example, I prefer DTS Neural for streaming and UHD/BD, then I can "add" that to my Scene options and never have to mess around with pushing any extra buttons other than to turn on a source (Scene) and volume using my Harmony remote.

Scenes are kind of like large presets that you have options to customize. I'm thinking about doing what you do and that's use DSur for just Comcast local HDTV stations only (no streaming) and possibly DTS Neural for UHD/BD and the ATV4k. I don't have Atmos so I'm not sure if there would be any real advantage in using that over Straight. It's all in the ears I guess. I just want to make sure that the basic audio settings are using Through, with my changes, and not YPAO:Flat

Sounds like you are doing manual speaker setup. Not sure if you did the levels on your speakers yet but you need to look at the sensitivity in DB for each speaker (provided by the manufacturer) and if there’s a difference, you need to adjust for that. Also if the surrounds are near your ears, you may need to drop their level down.

 

[Otto Plyot]

I've done that. The Manual Setup appears to be only for setting the EQ, which I don't need. I can't delete the YPAO results so I'm bypassing them by configuring the Distance, Level, and x-over myself in their respective Speaker Settings. The sound is demonstrably better than just using YPAO:Flat by itself. I just need to make sure that each Scene is not defaulting to YPAO, which would introduce the calculated EQ settings which I don't want.