Parasound A23+ vs. Emotiva XPA-DR2

[KEW]

You drove to a dude's house who has a user name like that?

...And he didn't disappoint.

Let me guess!
Wearing thongs playing Twister?

 

[gene]

Well that’s a douche move by them. So, just to confirm, fully balanced differential amps have no audible improvement over linear AB and Class D designs?

I don't even recall saying fully balanced differential amps have no audible improvement and that's an agnostic design topology to whatever amplifier class the design is. The very best designed amplifiers are fully differential and balanced but just bc an amplifier is designed with a differential topology doesn't mean it was executed as well as a really good single ended design.

 

[gene]

I'm really glad to see all the activity on this thread today, thrilled to see Gene chime in. I started this back in January and should update everyone that I did go with the Parasound. However, I now have a shot at a used Classe CA-2300 and am very seriously considering it. Still using the Paradigm Tributes. I really like them for music, just looking to feed them the best A/B amplification I can afford. Anyone have any personal experience with Classe, want to offer an opinion, suggestions? Also, I see some discussion on speaker choice here. I'm very curious about Tekton Designs speakers, another internet company. The Double Impacts have drawn a lot of attention. I'd love to hear a pair of the Ulfberhts. They've just released the new Moab model. Has anyone heard any of their speakers? Thoughts?

The Classe CT-2300 is one of the best sounding and best measuring amplifiers I've reviewed to date. And, it's built to last!

see: https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/classe-ct-2300

 

[gene]

So go with a Crown XLS 1002 and don’t look back because it sounds just as good as a Bryston, Emotiva, or McIntosh amp? And is dramatically less expensive.

Uhh not quite. An amp that digitizes the input and puts a brickwall at 20kHz? Not to mention is Class D so how it sounds/performs will be far more load dependent than a linear amp.

These measurements won't have me selling any of my amplifiers to replace with this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-crown-xls-1502-amp.6062/

 

[Irvrobinson]

Uhh not quite. An amp that digitizes the input and puts a brickwall at 20kHz? Not to mention is Class D so how it sounds/performs will be far more load dependent than a linear amp.

These measurements won't have me selling any of my amplifiers to replace with this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-crown-xls-1502-amp.6062/

And... while the conventional frequency response is limited by the ADC, the Wideband FFT chart shows a lot of high frequency artifacts. The HF stuff may not be audible, but I'm personally not going to tolerate it when analog output stages don't have that problem. I'm not giving up my old-fashioned amps either.

 

[pacman9270]

I don't even recall saying fully balanced differential amps have no audible improvement and that's an agnostic design topology to whatever amplifier class the design is. The very best designed amplifiers are fully differential and balanced but just bc an amplifier is designed with a differential topology doesn't mean it was executed as well as a really good single ended design.

My bad. I confused posts on that sentence. Also, thanks for answering my question, even when I asked it incorrectly.

 

[gene]

And... while the conventional frequency response is limited by the ADC, the Wideband FFT chart shows a lot of high frequency artifacts. The HF stuff may not be audible, but I'm personally not going to tolerate it when analog output stages don't have that problem. I'm not giving up my old-fashioned amps either.

I also haven't seen any full bandwidth power tests so I remain skeptical. The fact that all of the science guys at Harman still use Levinson amps in their DBT and NOT Crown speaks volumes. The Crown amp appears to be an unbeatable value but is best used for it's intent, PA applications, NOT audiophile.

 

[Alex2507]

Speaking of which, have you heard anything from Walter lately? Any idea if he is still kicking?

It's been a few years.

 

[Phase 2]

Uhh not quite. An amp that digitizes the input and puts a brickwall at 20kHz? Not to mention is Class D so how it sounds/performs will be far more load dependent than a linear amp.

These measurements won't have me selling any of my amplifiers to replace with this:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-crown-xls-1502-amp.6062/

About the same price range as ATi amps?. Would the build be about the same? I'm going to compare a similar amp with ATi and Monolith myself.

 

[PENG]

So go with a Crown XLS 1002 and don’t look back because it sounds just as good as a Bryston, Emotiva, or McIntosh amp? And is dramatically less expensive.

May be may be not, depend on what you use it with, and for what purpose.

 

[Phase 2]

So go with a Crown XLS 1002 and don’t look back because it sounds just as good as a Bryston, Emotiva, or McIntosh amp? And is dramatically less expensive.

Who told you that? or have you done your research? Do not just take anyone's word on here about audio gear. Do you own research, compare, go on website's, find as much info as you can about what it is your wanting to add to your entertainment system. Adding a amp has many factors going into buying one. Don't purchase a add on amp just because someone or you read somewhere that adding a amp will improve the sound of your speakers. It may improve clarity at higher volume but to a point of what your speakers where designed to do. I added a amp to some M70's and at higher volume levels at or just passed reference levels there was no difference.

 

[Shimei]

I know - doesn't seem like a fair comparison right?
Putting together a modest 2 channel system, considering these two power amps.
Would you take the A23+, 160w/ch with better sound staging, detail, clarity?
Would you go with the DR2, 550w/ch with more grunt, punch and dynamics?
Speakers for these will be Paradigm Tributes. Room and speakers can handle either amp.
I can acquire both amps for exactly the same price.

Which would you choose and why?

Side note - while there's no problem finding reviews on Parasound amps, I looked long and hard and couldn't find even a hint of a real review on one of the Emotiva DR models - and they've been out for a while now. I'm curious about the overwhelming silence on the DRs.

I recently went from an Emotiva DR3 to a Parasound Halo A31 [realize these aren't the exact amps you inquired on].

Regarding fidelity the Parasound is wonderfully smooth like warm butter spread over soft bread whereas the Emotiva cold butter over toast.

I tried for months to live with the Emotiva the midrange just never sounded right with the Tekton Design Ulfberhts. The Parasound I realized soon after just can't be compared to the Emotiva.

Regarding power I notice on the A 21 reviewers stating the amp produces 100+ more watts than at the reviewers acceptable distortion rating. Also the distortion measured far less than even Parasound's own ratings. I bring up the A21 because reviwers state these amps are no different in fidelity just an added channel.

In my personal system I have the THX reference levels set at 82 on my volume knob. The Tektons have a 96db sensitivity for 1 watt. That's 99db for 2 watts and 102db for 4 watts. The Parasound produces 7-10 watts of class A power which means I've never even switched to the AB operation yet.

Great amp and I highly recommend it. However, just like to point out that Emotiva has a trial period and wonderful support. I do believe Parasound sellers offer trial periods. You may want to take advantage of them!

 

[lovinthehd]

I also haven't seen any full bandwidth power tests so I remain skeptical. The fact that all of the science guys at Harman still use Levinson amps in their DBT and NOT Crown speaks volumes. The Crown amp appears to be an unbeatable value but is best used for it's intent, PA applications, NOT audiophile.

When did you use a Crown XLS drive core amp? I don't remember seeing that article. Levinson makes amps?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When did you use a Crown XLS drive core amp? I don't remember seeing that article. Levinson makes amps?

We know ATI made some amps for Levinson.

@M Code might know who makes Levinson amps these days.

 

[highfigh]

What about the fully balanced design. Is there an audible difference with this design? Kind of the same as McIntosh’s Quad-Balanced amps?

You need to look into the reason preamps and power amps might need to be balanced and a home audio system isn't among the list. It's nice if they have it, but it's not going to be better or worse- properly matched input and output levels and impedance is all that's needed, along with sufficient gain.

The end. Anything else is just marketing and this is coming from someone who's a Parasound dealer.

That said, I do like the sound from my system that includes an A23.

 

[Pogre]

Regarding fidelity the Parasound is wonderfully smooth like warm butter spread over soft bread whereas the Emotiva cold butter over toast

I'm gonna have to remember this next time I want my amp to flavor breakfast...

 

[highfigh]

We know ATI made some amps for Levinson.

@M Code might know who makes Levinson amps these days.

They're part of the Harmon group.

 

[highfigh]

Oh I get it. There is definitely a lot of noise out there and opinions vary wildly. It's tough when you first start getting serious and want to research. I personally have changed my perspective on what will have the most impact on sq. Coming from car audio and having installed a couple of my own systems I was firmly in the camp of "the amp is going to make a huge difference".

Plus if you really think about it, the speakers are the ones producing the sound. The job of the electronics is to send the signal to them and almost all maufacturers have the same goal of making sure that signal reaches the speakers as intact and accurately as possible.

Car audio is different from anything using AC line power because the power supply and amp configuration determine the quality of the output signal and the battery/batteries & charging system need to be able to handle the demand. The output from car audio systems is often dependent on battery voltage- some amps (like the older Rockford Fosgate/MTX and many others) have/had a less-regulated power supply which produced more output at full 14.4V and less at 12V, while others had a 'stiffer' supply, outputting the same while in a specified range. The less-regulated amps usually had more dynamic headroom and place more demand on the charging system at high output but it's still a matter of design philosophy as far as which sounds better, assuming the system's power requirements are handled correctly (and stiffening caps really isn't my idea of 'correctly' when long-term demands are involved).

 

[highfigh]

Reliability and serviceability should factor into your decision when buying an amplifier. I loved my Emotiva XPR-1 nonoblocks but they died after the warranty expired and Emotiva refused to service them. That reason alone makes me shy away from ever recommending an Emotiva product again.

Refused? That's ballsy.

 

[Pogre]

Car audio is different from anything using AC line power because the power supply and amp configuration determine the quality of the output signal and the battery/batteries & charging system need to be able to handle the demand. The output from car audio systems is often dependent on battery voltage- some amps (like the older Rockford Fosgate/MTX and many others) have/had a less-regulated power supply which produced more output at full 14.4V and less at 12V, while others had a 'stiffer' supply, outputting the same while in a specified range. The less-regulated amps usually had more dynamic headroom and place more demand on the charging system at high output but it's still a matter of design philosophy as far as which sounds better, assuming the system's power requirements are handled correctly (and stiffening caps really isn't my idea of 'correctly' when long-term demands are involved).

I had a 1.5 farad cap in the line with my system to "stiffen" it up, but multiple batteries is definitely the way to go.