Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[sakete]

I would say OCD, instead of ridiculous.

I think you just might be able to hear the difference if you have magic golden ears like some people or if you are Superman.

Don't lose 1 second of sleep over it.

Well I have mild tinnitus, so probably won't hear the difference I won't worry too much about it then.

Worse case I buy a separate streamer with a good DAC and feed that to one of the analog inputs.

 

[Pogre]

You can purchase the Audyssey Editor app that allows you to set the upper freq limit.

I don't see a problem with down sampling to 48 kHz with today's DSPs. There should be no loss and any resulting errors will be too insignificant to be discernible. I have never heard any negative effects but obviously someone with golden ears will tell you all sorts of things.

What's the word on the editor app lately? You remember the issues I was having with it last year? It's something I'd like to have, but it needs to actually work...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well I have mild tinnitus, so probably won't hear the difference I won't worry too much about it then.

Worse case I buy a separate streamer with a good DAC and feed that to one of the analog inputs.

I think I can only hear between 25Hz-16kHz.

Gene uses the Yamaha PEQ. I use it. I stream music all the time with MusicCast. Never ever heard any artifacts or distortion or anything funny. Crystal clear clean.

I wouldn't waste any time/money on a separate streamer and DAC.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's the word on the editor app lately? You remember the issues I was having with it last year? It's something I'd like to have, but it needs to actually work...

Reminds me of how the Denon Remote App and Denon AirPlay app worked about 50% of the time (or less) for me when I was using the AVP-A1HDCI.

 

[PENG]

What's the word on the editor app lately? You remember the issues I was having with it last year? It's something I'd like to have, but it needs to actually work...

It works well enough. I remember you had some issues but don't remember the details.

 

[ryanosaur]

What's the word on the editor app lately? You remember the issues I was having with it last year? It's something I'd like to have, but it needs to actually work...

I’ve had pretty good experience with mine, limited as it is. But clearly I want more too, if I’m considering buying into Dirac. For what it is, a deeper dive into automatic room control which is still somewhat easy to use while adding some functionality to an otherwise strictly automatic system, I think they did good for 20 Clams. If they were to make it more interactive, more powerful, and have some other capabilities as well, I’d consider an upgrade cost. Audyssey Pro for $50, anybody?!

 

[lovinthehd]

Audyssey Pro for $50, anybody?!

Yep, too bad Audyssey Pro was 10x that!

 

[Pogre]

I’ve had pretty good experience with mine, limited as it is. But clearly I want more too, if I’m considering buying into Dirac. For what it is, a deeper dive into automatic room control which is still somewhat easy to use while adding some functionality to an otherwise strictly automatic system, I think they did good for 20 Clams. If they were to make it more interactive, more powerful, and have some other capabilities as well, I’d consider an upgrade cost. Audyssey Pro for $50, anybody?!

What I found, and you might check this yourself, is when taking measurements through the app I would get a completely different calibration than when I used just my avr to take measurements. The app boosted a frequency band by 9 dB whereas using just the receiver would hardly bump the same band at all. I noticed it when I curve copied in the graphic eq section of my settings and saw the boost. I was also able to measure it with rew.

Several emails later they ended up refunding my money. Something was without question not right. Bummed me out too because I would use something like that if it worked properly.

*Edit: I actually think it was a 6 dB bump. It's been a while.

 

[lovinthehd]

What I found, and you might check this yourself, is when taking measurements through the app I would get a completely different calibration than when I used just my avr to take measurements. The app boosted a frequency band by 9 dB whereas using just the receiver would hardly bump the same band at all. I noticed it when I curve copied in the graphic eq section of my settings and saw the boost. I was also able to measure it with rew.

Several emails later they ended up refunding my money. Something was without question not right. Bummed me out too because I would use something like that if it worked properly.

*Edit: I actually think it was a 6 dB bump. It's been a while.

.... your thread https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/audyssey-editor-app-with-screenshots.107579/

 

[Pogre]

[

.... your thread https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/audyssey-editor-app-with-screenshots.107579/

There it is! Ha ha!

 

[lovinthehd]

[

There it is! Ha ha!

LOL I bookmarked it.

 

[RichB]

The Umik-1 seems like a popular one for REW users. @RichB has used Umik-1 and the more expensive Omni Mic so may be you can ask him. I have no experience in using separate sound cards.

I have calibrated Umik-1, Umm-6, and OmniMic2. All are USB mics which are easy to use.
I also have no experience with using the sound card mic input.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

The Umik-1 seems like a popular one for REW users. @RichB has used Umik-1 and the more expensive Omni Mic so may be you can ask him. I have no experience in using separate sound cards.

FWIW the pricey part of the Omnimic system is mostly about the nice case and software/test discs. May as well get the UMM-6 if you don't want the kit of OmnimicV2 (and if you do get the Omnimic, may as well bundle it with the DATS measurement addition).

 

[hifihillbilly]

I purchased and installed the Anthem MRX-720. Ran ARC several times trying to fine tune XO's, levels, etc. The ARC seemed to do well with the exception of the high XO's for my GoldenEar SuperSat 3's for L/C/R and surrounds. The XO's were set @ 180-200hz for all of these. However, with some advice from folks on AH I tweaked these and things sounded better except my bass output was low. I replaced a GE FF4 sub with 2 RSL Speedwoofer 10S. This helped but bass output was still lacking so I replaced the RSL's with 2 SVS PC-2000 subs. Well, that solved the bass output issues (review coming). Anyway, for comparison, I purchased the Marantz SR6013 ($1500 cheaper than the Anthem) and swapped it with the Anthem. I have run Audyssey several times and it also set the XO's in the 180-200hz range. It set ALL of my speaker levels in the -dB range. The subs were set to -12dB. With all the levels set so low I had to increase the receiver volume to -15 or 20dB while watching movies to get any impact from the subs. I know I will need to tweak the Marantz settings like I did the Anthem. The Anthem seems to sound better, get louder, and have more impact than the Marantz. I know all of this is subjective but this is my experience in my room. I will spend some more time with the Marantz to give it a fair shake. I have conducted a manual EQ which in my opinion sounds better than the Audyssey. So for now I am still tweaking the Marantz. I will soon have to make up my mind which one to keep. Any other AV receiver suggestions (NAD, Arcam, Yamaha)?
My current setup
Marantz SR6013
Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2 Amp
LG OLEDC9PUA
Sony UBP-X800
GoldenEar SuperSat 3's L/C/R and Surround L/R
RSL c34e height speakers x2
SVS PC-2000 x2 Subwoofer

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

manual EQ which in my opinion sounds better than the Audyssey.

I think anyone who loves Room EQ so much must feel that EQ improves the sound by making the in-room FR flatter.

Thus, they need to spend $91 on the UMIK-1 microphone from Amazon and do REW measurements.

Then they will know for sure how their speakers measure in-room. Then they will know exactly where in the FR that needs to be fixed in order to make it flat.

Then they can use a Parametric EQ (PEQ found in Yamaha, Classe, Bryston, DataSat, ATI, etc.) to adjust one frequency point at a time with the smallest increment (0.5dB, Q=0.5).

The reason I say this is because Gene used YPAO first. Then he used Yamaha’s PEQ and REW measurements to get a flat FR.

So YPAO + PEQ = flat FR.

 

[PENG]

I purchased and installed the Anthem MRX-720. Ran ARC several times trying to fine tune XO's, levels, etc. The ARC seemed to do well with the exception of the high XO's for my GoldenEar SuperSat 3's for L/C/R and surrounds. The XO's were set @ 180-200hz for all of these. However, with some advice from folks on AH I tweaked these and things sounded better except my bass output was low. I replaced a GE FF4 sub with 2 RSL Speedwoofer 10S. This helped but bass output was still lacking so I replaced the RSL's with 2 SVS PC-2000 subs. Well, that solved the bass output issues (review coming). Anyway, for comparison, I purchased the Marantz SR6013 ($1500 cheaper than the Anthem) and swapped it with the Anthem. I have run Audyssey several times and it also set the XO's in the 180-200hz range. It set ALL of my speaker levels in the -dB range. The subs were set to -12dB. With all the levels set so low I had to increase the receiver volume to -15 or 20dB while watching movies to get any impact from the subs. I know I will need to tweak the Marantz settings like I did the Anthem. The Anthem seems to sound better, get louder, and have more impact than the Marantz. I know all of this is subjective but this is my experience in my room. I will spend some more time with the Marantz to give it a fair shake. I have conducted a manual EQ which in my opinion sounds better than the Audyssey. So for now I am still tweaking the Marantz. I will soon have to make up my mind which one to keep. Any other AV receiver suggestions (NAD, Arcam, Yamaha)?
My current setup
Marantz SR6013
Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2 Amp
LG OLEDC9PUA
Sony UBP-X800
GoldenEar SuperSat 3's L/C/R and Surround L/R
RSL c34e height speakers x2
SVS PC-2000 x2 Subwoofer

My suggestion is, keep the SR6013, but if you believe in auto REQ, purchase the Editor App for $20. The Marantz has the same DAC as the MRX, but the preamp/vol control has been upgraded so now they may be better than the MRX720's, though Anthem might have done similar upgrades too. Either way, those are theoretical, based on specs and measurements, in practice I believe in pure direct, you won't be able to tell them apart audibly speaking.

If you run Audyssey with the App, follow Audyssey's auto setup guide to the letter, sd all 8 positions in a quite room. After that, try different crossovers, add a few dB to the subwoofer level, you will end up have the bass response as smooth and accurate as Anthem ARC, if not better. If you don't use REW to guide you, then from my experience, crossovers should be 80 Hz or higher even for big tower speakers. Obviously with your satellite speakers you don't need to worry about this, just leave the XO to whatever Audyssey set it to, in this case it was 180 Hz right? By the way, that is clearly your bottleneck, any plan to replace the sats with some real speaker for the front row? What's the point of the XPA-5 otherwise?

Anthem ARC's based on IIR filters that are inherently not as good as Audyssey and Dirac's FIR, though that's in theory/principles only. Anthem's got better reviews reviews from "experts" who like the fact that they offer the option to EQ below the room transition frequency as well as limiting the upper end to 5 kHz for the MRX leaving the 20 kHz limit option available to their AVPs only. Anthem also apparently don't EQ the bass response flat, but include what they considered "room gain". I don't buy that because I prefer flat as a starting point and then I have the option to do the tweak myelf using the App. It is obvious though, based on forum posts, that the main reason why many people thought Audyssey would take the live out of their speakers, some claimed they find simply adding a few dB to the subwoofer level fixed it for them.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I purchased and installed the Anthem MRX-720. Ran ARC several times trying to fine tune XO's, levels, etc. The ARC seemed to do well with the exception of the high XO's for my GoldenEar SuperSat 3's for L/C/R and surrounds. The XO's were set @ 180-200hz for all of these. However, with some advice from folks on AH I tweaked these and things sounded better except my bass output was low. I replaced a GE FF4 sub with 2 RSL Speedwoofer 10S. This helped but bass output was still lacking so I replaced the RSL's with 2 SVS PC-2000 subs. Well, that solved the bass output issues (review coming). Anyway, for comparison, I purchased the Marantz SR6013 ($1500 cheaper than the Anthem) and swapped it with the Anthem. I have run Audyssey several times and it also set the XO's in the 180-200hz range. It set ALL of my speaker levels in the -dB range. The subs were set to -12dB. With all the levels set so low I had to increase the receiver volume to -15 or 20dB while watching movies to get any impact from the subs. I know I will need to tweak the Marantz settings like I did the Anthem. The Anthem seems to sound better, get louder, and have more impact than the Marantz. I know all of this is subjective but this is my experience in my room. I will spend some more time with the Marantz to give it a fair shake. I have conducted a manual EQ which in my opinion sounds better than the Audyssey. So for now I am still tweaking the Marantz. I will soon have to make up my mind which one to keep. Any other AV receiver suggestions (NAD, Arcam, Yamaha)?
My current setup
Marantz SR6013
Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2 Amp
LG OLEDC9PUA
Sony UBP-X800
GoldenEar SuperSat 3's L/C/R and Surround L/R
RSL c34e height speakers x2
SVS PC-2000 x2 Subwoofer

Subs were set to -12 because the gain was too high on them. You should drop the gain on them so after audyssey they’re around-5. Also, speakers in the negative just reflects their sensitivity.

 

[Ken32]

@AcuDefTechGuy

Saved more money and just went with the Onkyo RZ830 at the price offered I couldn't pass it up.
I loved the 820 when i had it. Hopefully this one goes a lot smoother than last. Then again, who's to say it was even Onkyo's fault... It was delivered by UPS and one thing I know for sure, they throw packages around pretty aggressively.

Also, I was doing some comparative video watching and one of the videos stated that Onkyo uses Parametric Eq system (RZ series) from what was stated. Don't quote me on that though. Not my info.

From what I've seen in the videos with AEQ results(granted, every room is different) the Advanced accueq seems to do a better job than Audyssey. I can't chime in about that just yet. When i had my it was direct mode only. I'll definitely play with the AEQ system as well as manual settings.

One thing i do love about Onkyo is the integration of Chromecast. It's pretty great.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy

Saved more money and just went with the Onkyo RZ830 at the price offered I couldn't pass it up.
I loved the 820 when i had it. Hopefully this one goes a lot smoother than last. Then again, who's to say it was even Onkyo's fault... It was delivered by UPS and one thing I know for sure, they throw packages around pretty aggressively.

Also, I was doing some comparative video watching and one of the videos stated that Onkyo uses Parametric Eq system (RZ series) from what was stated. Don't quote me on that though. Not my info.

From what I've seen in the videos with AEQ results(granted, every room is different) the Advanced accueq seems to do a better job than Audyssey. I can't chime in about that just yet. When i had my it was direct mode only. I'll definitely play with the AEQ system as well as manual settings.

One thing i do love about Onkyo is the integration of Chromecast. It's pretty great.

Well, saving money is usually a good thing.

Regarding auto room EQ, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

As for manual EQ, I don’t think the Onkyo $2300 pre-pro has even a Graphic EQ. So I doubt any Onkyo AVR has a Parametric EQ. But I could be wrong.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, saving money is usually a good thing.

Regarding auto room EQ, everyone thinks theirs is the best.

As for manual EQ, I don’t think the Onkyo $2300 pre-pro has even a Graphic EQ. So I doubt any Onkyo AVR has a Parametric EQ. But I could be wrong.

From the description in the 830 manual it appears to be a graphic eq (5 bands for sub, 9 bands for speakers), no mention of anything relating to a parametric eq that I see.