Will Huawei Survive the Google Ban?

[Wayde Robson]

In the wake of the Trump administration's black-listing of Huawei from American business relations, Huawei is scrambling to deploy its "plan B". It turns out the Chinese telecom giant had a near-decade old plan for such an eventuality. The company had already been in the process of reducing dependence on American microchips and software. The Huawei subsidiary, HiSilicon Technologies already makes world-class processors for some of Huawei's devices with even more advanced ones in the works. Now, Huawei is in the process of deploying its own operating system and app store, essentially creating its own wireless device ecosystem similar to that of Apple and Google. The goal is elimination of dependence on US-based firms like Intel, Microsoft and Google. Rather than a roadblock for Huawei, the Huawei ban may turn out to be nothing more than a speed bump. And if China and the Trump administration can agree to trade terms, American telecoms may resume distribution of Huawei handsets to the US market.

Today's article brings up some potential good that may come from a thoroughly independent Huawei. For consumers worldwide it means more choice, more competition and theoretically better products. Although, in the US market at least, Huawei may never fully regain the trust of American consumers due to its connections with the Chinese Communist Party and allegations that it may be spying on users on behalf of the CPP. But for many, a special offer from Huawei could go a long way in regaining that trust. If the Trump administration ever gives the all-clear to resume business with Huawei on American soil, would you ever buy a Huawei phone for yourself or your family?

Read the full article: Trump Google - Huawei Ban Might be Good for Consumers After All

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'd give Huawei a 5% chance of success with their own mobile OS. Samsung flopped with Tizen, and Huawei is probably not as capable as Samsung was or is.

And BTW, the article incorrectly states that Huawei's assets are about $100B; that's their annual revenues, not their asset value.

 

[Wayde Robson]

And BTW, the article incorrectly states that Huawei's assets are about $100B; that's their annual revenues, not their asset value.

Thanks for letting me know. I got it from another article about the topic, it should be linked but I'll double check that I got the verbiage right, I might have misstated.

According to Wikipedia, net income vs. total assets:


Net income

CN¥59.345 billion US$8.656 billion (2018)
Total assets

CN¥665.792 billion US$97.109 billion (2018)

I rounded up for dramatic effect but it looks about right.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks for letting me know. I got it from another article about the topic, it should be linked but I'll double check that I got the verbiage right, I might have misstated.

According to Wikipedia, net income vs. total assets:

Net income

CN¥59.345 billion US$8.656 billion (2018)
Total assets

CN¥665.792 billion US$97.109 billion (2018)

I rounded up for dramatic effect but it looks about right.

Alright, I didn't know that Huawei's assets were $100B, because assets are not typically discussed in a context like this. Annual revenue and net income are the two typically discussed together. It's a coincidence that Huawei's assets are valued at about the same as annual revenue, so I just thought you mixed up the two terms. Huawei revenue was about $107B in 2018. What confused me is that you brought up a financial measure (assets) that isn't typically discussed with net income, revenues are, so I thought you might be like Bernie Sanders who doesn't know the difference between revenue and net income. My apologies for assuming your ignorance.

 

[Wayde Robson]

My apologies for assuming your ignorance.

Citing my ignorance of the deeper aspects of financial valuation of companies is not necessarily misplaced. I have no great insights, but I try to pass on info from reliable sources and the numbers on Huawei seemed impressive enough, so I thought they were worth mentioning.

 

[shadyJ]

Another great article Wayde. Huawai seems shady as hell, so I agree its not a bad idea to limit their access to US markets.

 

[Wayde Robson]

Another great article Wayde. Huawai seems shady as hell, so I agree its not a bad idea to limit their access to US markets.

Thanks for the kind words.

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything Huawei, and they are distributed where I live here in Canada. I agree that they're shady as truck.

Unfortunately, Canada is still doing business with Huawei on all levels as far as I know, despite the fact that there's a low-level legal war between Canada and China right now that's even more underhanded than the US trade war with China.

The Canadian government arrested a Huawei executive on behalf of the US in a legally required extradition under international law. China has told Canada that it wants the exec released. But that's not how it works, Canada is simply following international law, only the American government could release her. She was arrested for doing business with Iran which I guess breaks the US sanctions against Iran to assist in propping up that state.

Since Canada refused to release that Huawei exec, China has been going hog wild arresting Canadian business-people operating in China on mostly false charges. They've even started handing out death sentences for some shady charges. That one drug dealer notwithstanding, I think the Canadian who was caught shipping Chinese opioids to Australia did indeed break a law that carries a legit death sentence in China. But there are others who, as far as anyone knows, were just doing business over there and not drug dealing or doing anything specifically illegal.

I think most Canadians found it insulting to be seeing Huawei ads during the NHL playoffs this year, including a big Huawei logo in front of the desk of hockey the commentators during the period breaks. Huawei had become a major advertiser for Hockey Night in Canada just before the "troubles" began. The ad contracts were already in place. It was kind-of ironic to see a blurb for a CBC news story coming up after the game about how China has arrested yet another random Canadian businessman, all because of Huawei. Then seeing a Hauwei ad.

I don't completely understand how extradition works, but the arrest occurred months ago, so I would think she wouldn't even be in Canadian custody anymore. So, I don't think Canada "can" let her go. I'm not sure why she'd languish in custody in a Canadian federal holding cell for months? I mean, wouldn't the Americans take her from there?

It's pretty dirty underhanded stuff. I think Trump is right to do something about trade with China. How can a first world nation offshore manufacturing to a country that still holds slaves and has hospitals to harvest bodyparts of people deemed enemies of the state? There needs to be coherent human rights and environmental standards for anything manufactured for first-world consumption. Even if it increases the cost. Lord knows we could live with a lot less of the Made in China garbage we buy from Wal-Mart. Especially in consumer electronics.

 

[Wayde Robson]

I thought I'd add... after that long rant about Huawei and Canada/China relations... even though I'd probably never buy Huawei, the presence of another wireless ecosystem and family of devices is still good for competition overall. It'll make Google and Apple better, in theory.

 

[Pottscb]

I think this action was also important because it sets a precedent...if your foreign government asks you to meddle in US affairs (or allow them to spy on the US through your company's product) you better be ready to get smacked and HARD! I think it's essential that Huawei not bounce back quickly from this setback or the point will be lost.

 

[Trell]

Another great article Wayde. Huawai seems shady as hell, so I agree its not a bad idea to limit their access to US markets.

Agree, but the current US government should be able to have a consistent message that this is for security reasons. Having Trump kind-of backtracking by suggesting that bans might be eased if he gets a better trade deal does not help, and US is loosing credibility among it's friends and allies.

 

[highfigh]

In the wake of the Trump administration's black-listing of Huawei from American business relations, Huawei is scrambling to deploy its "plan B". It turns out the Chinese telecom giant had a near-decade old plan for such an eventuality. The company had already been in the process of reducing dependence on American microchips and software. The Huawei subsidiary, HiSilicon Technologies already makes world-class processors for some of Huawei's devices with even more advanced ones in the works. Now, Huawei is in the process of deploying its own operating system and app store, essentially creating its own wireless device ecosystem similar to that of Apple and Google. The goal is elimination of dependence on US-based firms like Intel, Microsoft and Google. Rather than a roadblock for Huawei, the Huawei ban may turn out to be nothing more than a speed bump. And if China and the Trump administration can agree to trade terms, American telecoms may resume distribution of Huawei handsets to the US market.

Today's article brings up some potential good that may come from a thoroughly independent Huawei. For consumers worldwide it means more choice, more competition and theoretically better products. Although, in the US market at least, Huawei may never fully regain the trust of American consumers due to its connections with the Chinese Communist Party and allegations that it may be spying on users on behalf of the CPP. But for many, a special offer from Huawei could go a long way in regaining that trust. If the Trump administration ever gives the all-clear to resume business with Huawei on American soil, would you ever buy a Huawei phone for yourself or your family?

Read the full article: Trump Google - Huawei Ban Might be Good for Consumers After All

You might want to look deeper into this- the DOD removed them from the list of approved vendors for government contracts. I don't have the exact date, but I can contact one of the manufacturers of products I use- they sent an e-mail regarding this and it had an attachment that showed the details.

 

[TLS Guy]

Huawei is an arm of the Chinese intelligence service and great an enormous security risk to the West.

The MayBot, that terminally useless UK PM, due to be replaced next week, has given Huawei a stupid and dangerous sweet deal to build a lot of UK IT infrastructure. This has caused great strain between the US and UK security services. This deal is very unpopular among a lot of interests in the UK. Hopefully when BOJO in installed in No. 10 next week, which I fully expect, he will unravel that awful deal.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Thanks for the kind words.

Personally, I wouldn't buy anything Huawei, and they are distributed where I live here in Canada. I agree that they're shady as truck.

Unfortunately, Canada is still doing business with Huawei on all levels as far as I know, despite the fact that there's a low-level legal war between Canada and China right now that's even more underhanded than the US trade war with China.

The Canadian government arrested a Huawei executive on behalf of the US in a legally required extradition under international law. China has told Canada that it wants the exec released. But that's not how it works, Canada is simply following international law, only the American government could release her. She was arrested for doing business with Iran which I guess breaks the US sanctions against Iran to assist in propping up that state.

Since Canada refused to release that Huawei exec, China has been going hog wild arresting Canadian business-people operating in China on mostly false charges. They've even started handing out death sentences for some shady charges. That one drug dealer notwithstanding, I think the Canadian who was caught shipping Chinese opioids to Australia did indeed break a law that carries a legit death sentence in China. But there are others who, as far as anyone knows, were just doing business over there and not drug dealing or doing anything specifically illegal.

I think most Canadians found it insulting to be seeing Huawei ads during the NHL playoffs this year, including a big Huawei logo in front of the desk of hockey the commentators during the period breaks. Huawei had become a major advertiser for Hockey Night in Canada just before the "troubles" began. The ad contracts were already in place. It was kind-of ironic to see a blurb for a CBC news story coming up after the game about how China has arrested yet another random Canadian businessman, all because of Huawei. Then seeing a Hauwei ad.

I don't completely understand how extradition works, but the arrest occurred months ago, so I would think she wouldn't even be in Canadian custody anymore. So, I don't think Canada "can" let her go. I'm not sure why she'd languish in custody in a Canadian federal holding cell for months? I mean, wouldn't the Americans take her from there?

It's pretty dirty underhanded stuff. I think Trump is right to do something about trade with China. How can a first world nation offshore manufacturing to a country that still holds slaves and has hospitals to harvest bodyparts of people deemed enemies of the state? There needs to be coherent human rights and environmental standards for anything manufactured for first-world consumption. Even if it increases the cost. Lord knows we could live with a lot less of the Made in China garbage we buy from Wal-Mart. Especially in consumer electronics.

Wayde, the issue concerning the arrest of Meng Wanzhou was discussed ad nauseam in this thread:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/im-so-angry-with-the-u-s-and-chinese-governments-right-now.113371/

I don't want to start any more arguing, but it might provide a bit more detail, if you're interested. She is still in Canada, free on bail to live in her Vancouver mansion, while the Canadians kidnapped, er...arrested in retaliation are still rotting in some dank Chinese prison cell.

 

[Wayde Robson]

Wayde, the issue concerning the arrest of Meng Wanzhou was discussed ad nauseam in this thread:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/im-so-angry-with-the-u-s-and-chinese-governments-right-now.113371/

I don't want to start any more arguing, but it might provide a bit more detail, if you're interested. She is still in Canada, free on bail to live in her Vancouver mansion, while the Canadians kidnapped, er...arrested in retaliation are still rotting in some dank Chinese prison cell.

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. I'm definitely interested in learning more.

 

[Wayde Robson]

The MayBot, that terminally useless UK PM, due to be replaced next week... Hopefully when BOJO in installed in No. 10 next week, which I fully expect, he will unravel that awful deal.

I hope the Canadian government will follow suit with the US and hopefully the UK if they turn it around.

Are you British? I only see UK politics from here in Canada, but it looks like some interesting but awful divisions are going on in the UK. Similar to what's going on here in Canada and of course the US.

On one hand, the country voted for Brexit, which over here gets lambasted in the media as *only* being the result of racism. While that may be partly true, which is unfortunate, there seems to be a whole other side of Brexit support involving sovereignty and fundamental problems with the EU. Although, a Brit passport that gets you in at any EU airport seems like a sweet deal. I'm certain there is more going on with Brexit support than just racism.

Meanwhile, the UK arrested Count Dankula for a silly sketch that can be no more confused with neo-nazism than any number of silly comedy sketches performed by the likes of Monte Python in a bygone era. I'm not sure what to make of it all.

 

[hk2000]

We did have a 3rd option- Windows phone was and still is better than both Apple and Android crappy OSes, with much less risk of being spied on- if you knew what you're doing that is.

 

[eddified]

Personally, I’m worried about China spying. I’ve got a Chinese co-worker whose eyes have been opened about the Chinese government. He knows a lot of what the Chinese government is doing — and it’s scary, I’ll tell you that.

 

[Bucknekked]

It strikes me that we actually have no real idea what Huawei is doing, or not doing. We also pretty much have no real iidea what the Chinese government is doing, or not doing. Its pretty much imagination and conjecture. That being said, it only makes the reality worse. We just don't know who to believe or what. That's a nasty bit of business. Do I trust Huawei? Nope. Do I trust the Chinese Government? Nope. Do I trust we are getting any semblance of actual true information from our own government? Nope. Is there some shady business going on? Certainly.

The problem for me as just an average joe consumer is : I have no idea what I can do that actually helps.
I can certainly avoid Huawei products. Done. But, that's not comforting in the least

 

[tonyE]

Huawei "working on their Plan B for ten years"? Gimme a break, they are just copying Android, which is really Linux with a specific API.

Android is Open Source.

All Huawei is doing is copying Open Source, very, VERY likely breaking the Open Source License, and creating it's own copy of "Android".

They will likely get sued and be unable to deliver such a phone in the US, EU and most of the World, but they don't care. They will sell it in China.