what to buy to replace my Anthem P5 ?

[lovinthehd]

Thanks everyone...this whole thread is helpful...so I went over to my P5 and turned it on with the thought of switching plugs or outlets, but right away it works again...I'm guessing it will buzz again at some point.and I am on limited time with it.

Is it a physical transformer vibration? Or a ground loop type buzz?

 

[KEW]

Is it a physical transformer vibration? Or a ground loop type buzz?

It is a loud electronic buzz that comes directly from the unit, not through the speakers...

Sounds like a transformer hum!
I wonder if someone like @TLS Guy can offer any speculation on why a transformer hum would come and go?
Maybe it is something else, but I cannot think of what!

 

[lovinthehd]

Loose mount?

 

[PENG]

Thanks everyone...this whole thread is helpful...so I went over to my P5 and turned it on with the thought of switching plugs or outlets, but right away it works again...I'm guessing it will buzz again at some point.and I am on limited time with it.

If you are the person who posted on this very issue some months ago, I am still of the opinion that something else running in your house that caused harmonic resonance with the huge transformer in that amp. My Halo amp would do it every time I put the desktop humidifier on low speed.

It could even be your neighbor or some nearby industrial loads injecting harmonics that caused the resonance. In that case it would be hard to find the source and you may have to spend money on a good power conditioner. I think Bryston has one iirc.

Have you tried turning everything off except the amp as soon as it started to buzz? When it did, sound quality was still decent right?

 

[lovinthehd]

@PENG got anything to read for the layman on such resonances with transformers?

 

[PENG]

@PENG got anything to read for the layman on such resonances with transformers?

Actually I should have mention resonance, it does not need to get to that point at all. All it needs to hum louder than normal are the right harmonics contents and magnitudes.

I thought of resonance right because I worked in heavy industries for a long time and we had pay attention to the effects of harmonics injected into the system by higher power inverter devices such as variable speed drives, resulting in all sorts of issues including damages to other equipment.

If it even get to that point, I would expect the hum to be not only loud, but go up and down instead of a steady louder than normal hum/buzz.

A quick Google did not turn up direct studies on harmonics effects on transformer noise but the following should give some ideas, again, not directly.

https://canadatransformers.com/transformer-noise-factor/

Just read the introduction of this paper.
https://waset.org/publications/9998518/identification-of-transformer-core-vibrations-and-the-effect-of-third-harmonic-in-the-electricity-grid

 

[lovinthehd]

I've also read about sometimes it's simply a matter of the mount, how does that play into the possible humming of an amp transformer?

 

[PENG]

I've also read about sometimes it's simply a matter of the mount, how does that play into the possible humming of an amp transformer?

Yes, but in this case the buzz is intermittent so I don't think loose mount is the root cause.

 

[shug23]

the electronic buzz is not 'resonance' as far as I can tell, and it is not a humming sound. It is loud and annoying....you know that sound you hear on TV when they say 'this is a test of the emergency broadcast system?'...that's closest way I can describe it...It has nothing to do with the D2 or sound coming thru the speakers.....I was thinking the cause might be something loose as well, but not sure how something is getting loose and then getting back in place again.....

It is also costant in tone and volume, coming directly from the P5...…...

Yes, I was the poster a few months ago, btw

 

[PENG]

the electronic buzz is not 'resonance' as far as I can tell, and it is not a humming sound. It is loud and annoying....you know that sound you hear on TV when they say 'this is a test of the emergency broadcast system?'...that's closest way I can describe it...It has nothing to do with the D2 or sound coming thru the speakers.....I was thinking the cause might be something loose as well, but not sure how something is getting loose and then getting back in place again.....

It is also costant in tone and volume, coming directly from the P5...…...

Yes, I was the poster a few months ago, btw

Just because the noise does not come from the speakers does not mean it is not caused by harmonics in your power line. Loud transformer hum and buzz are originated in the windings and the core, so of course you won't hear it from the speakers. Hums you hear through the speakers are typically due to "ground loops", nothing to do with transformer noises. As to the "something loose" scenario, I agree with your logic as I stated in post#28.

Too bad my humidifier is in storage for the summer, otherwise I would make a recording of the kind of harmonic induced transformer buzz that I suspect (but of course not sure) you may be getting. As I mentioned before, if the loudness of the buzz is steady it is most likely not resonance, but could well be due to low order harmonics generated by something else in your house or some places nearby.

So my questions in post#24 remain, that is

Have you tried turning everything off except the amp as soon as it started to buzz? When it did, sound quality was still decent right?

I said everything, just to be 100% sure. I might have listed some likely suspects before, they would include, variable speed fans, induction stoves, UPS, and anything that involves power electronics, even TVs and ballasts (if defective in certain ways).

The P5 is a very good and expensive amp, so if I own one I will not give up easy and I believe the solution could be a simple one, especially if sound quality is fine when the buzz is there, except for the buzz noise obviously.

Edit: @lovinthehd asked for it last night but I only did a quick Google, did more and found this one :
http://file.scirp.org/Html/2-7600687_67996.htm

 

[shug23]

I will have to see how the music sounds over the buzzing...I usually come down in the morning and turn on the D2 and the P5 and the buzzing, if it occurs, only occurs when powering up. I don't actually think I have played any music while the buzz is going. This morning, I powered up the p5 and for 1.5 seconds it buzzed then suddenly stopped and the P5 is working.....Not clear if tomorrow morning it will buzz or not.....I should note that the p5 has it's own dedicated circuit breaker, so does this impact your thinking at all ?...I will update when I have more information...thanks

 

[PENG]

I will have to see how the music sounds over the buzzing...I usually come down in the morning and turn on the D2 and the P5 and the buzzing, if it occurs, only occurs when powering up. I don't actually think I have played any music while the buzz is going. This morning, I powered up the p5 and for 1.5 seconds it buzzed then suddenly stopped and the P5 is working.....Not clear if tomorrow morning it will buzz or not.....I should note that the p5 has it's own dedicated circuit breaker, so does this impact your thinking at all ?...I will update when I have more information...thanks

No, circuit breaker is only for overcurrent/overload protection as well as isolation.

 

[M Code]

Frequently the buzzing comes from loose laminations within the power transformer. The transformer still works OK but when the transformer has current being pulled through it can vibrate as a steady buzz... Also some times this can be fixed by tightning the transformer chassis mounts and/or the longer screws holding the transformer together. Unfortunately if the above don't work the transformer should be replaced, this should be covered under warranty if the product is within its subject period. If not the expense will be significant as the power transformer is the most expensive internal component within an AVR.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Cos]

What was the problem with your $3,000 180W x 5Ch Parasound A52 amp?

How old was it when it developed the problem? 1, 2, 3, 4 YR?

Does anyone know how their customer support is AFTER the 5YR warranty?

It was on year 4, I thought I was hearing a hissing from the speaker on one of the channels, sent it to them, they tested it with no problem, that he double checked, got it back and it was fine. It could have been a bad interconnect or equipment. At the time I was going form a 7005 to the 8802A I think. Never had a problem since.

Yes they are heavy. I have 2 A51s now and a A31, all in boxes now while I redesign basement home theater

 

[Cos]

I'm just guessing here, but the fact that RichB bought 2 ATI amps, instead of more Parasound amps might say a little bit.

It could be "pride of ownership". I suppose there could be other reasons why he didn't buy more Parasound amps, instead of buying 2 ATI amps.

Just guessing here. I mean if he owned ATI amps before and then now buys 2 Parasound amps, I would be curious too.

He actually got the 6000 series. I was talking to him about it when I was thinking of switching, I was going to go with the 4000 (less power). It came down to not wanting to upgrade for the sake of upgrading, I have tested them side by side at a dealer, I couldn't tell the difference, at least not to warrant the switch.

 

[PENG]

He actually got the 6000 series. I was talking to him about it when I was thinking of switching, I was going to go with the 4000 (less power). It came down to not wanting to upgrade for the sake of upgrading, I have tested them side by side at a dealer, I couldn't tell the difference, at least not to warrant the switch.

He did switched to the Benchmark AHB2. By the way iirc he had "humming" issues with the ATI amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

He did switched to the Benchmark AHB2. By the way iirc he had "humming" issues with the ATI amp.

Ground hum ?

Which ATI amp?

I wonder if class-AB is more prone to hum than class-D.

 

[shug23]

so I sent a note off to ANthem and so far they are being a little responsive with some questions....will see where it goes. Here seems to be a big clue for any technical detectives out there...Yesterday morning I came down as usual and turned on the P5 and unfortunately, the electronic buzzing began immediately. Per Anthem's request, I then turned on my D2 and Cd player and after the D2 warmed up, I played a CD. I only got music coming through the front speakers, the other channel (surrounds and center) speakers were totally silent...just the loud continuous buzzing coming off the P5...I turned the P5 off and turned it back on a couple time, waiting a minute or so each time and eventually the buzzing 'clicked' off and the P5 is working again (both channels)....It did the same thing this morning....I really cant feel any vibration coming off the P5 when it is in 'buzzing' mode, but I don't discount tis possibility...the P5 is so heavy that I might not feel any vibration by just placing my hand on it, so now I am wondering if something is loose and simply getting vibrated back into place.

 

[shug23]

I am pretty sure if I left the P5 on for the next 2-3 months while we are here ( I am a snowbird), I wont have any problem with my sound system. I am not sure that is a god idea, but every time I turn it off at night, I wonder if it is going to work in the morning.....will keep you poste don what Anthem says....If anybody has any home-remedy solutions to try, ;let me know

 

[PENG]

Ground hum ?

Which ATI amp?

I wonder if class-AB is more prone to hum than class-D.

I thought he said it was transformer hum, AT3005 iirc..