Speaker Suggestions - Please

[g00r00]

Looking for Home Theater Speaker Packages. Budget to consider = neighborhood of $1000 US.

To All - Thanks for accepting me into your Audio/Visual forum. It has been awhile since I have stepped into the world of home sound reproduction, (approximately 25 years),and I see much has changed.

I am not yet looking for the best of the best in Home Theater equipment, but I don't want to start with the "el-cheapo" system either.

I am keeping my old stereo system available and may even try incorporating some of the components into the new setup.
With that being said, I will tell you what equipment I have at this point.

Old Stereo Equipment:
Pre-amp: Onkyo P304
Power-amp: Onkyo M804
Tuner: Onkyo T-403
Digital Media Player: Marantz PMD-526C
Speakers: Bose IV

New Theater Equipment:
Samsung Smart TV - UHD8000 65"
Receiver: Onkyo TX-RZ830
Speakers: SUGGESTIONS PLEASE

I am dealing with a living room area that has vaulted ceilings. The entertainment space is approximately space is approximately 17.5' W X18.5 ' in depth (however the sound area is open through the kitchen). The viewing seats are approx. 8' from the TV screen.

As, seen by the photos below the entertainment are is relatively small but, opens behind the viewer.

The goal is to find a decent theater speaker system ($800-$1100) that will interface with the current equipment in the environment presented.

 

[sholling]

You have a beautiful home. There are several possibilities and one of my favorite small bookshelf speakers is Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 and they are well within your budget. They are more about fidelity than volume but for their size they do pretty well, especially if you eventually pair them with a subwoofer. I would try to place them a bit further from the side wall than your Bose.

For a space that size I'd also consider a pair of tower speakers for their greater output, especially bass output, I'm just not up on the latest and greatest sub-$1000 towers so I'll leave it to others to make some suggestions.

It would be nice to add a subwoofer but you'll likely spend at least $1000 on just a sub capable of filling that space.

 

[Grandzoltar]

What consists in the nrt upgrade for $300. I didn’t see anything about it on the Sierra web link.

 

[lovinthehd]

What consists in the nrt upgrade for $300. I didn’t see anything about it on the Sierra web link.

Different tweeter. You can self install later if you buy the regular speaker (which I've done).

 

[g00r00]

So as I've studied some options and I am leaning towards the Definitive Technology Pro-Cinima 1000 - 1.5 Home Theater System with an upgrade to a Pro-Center 2000 at a price 1,314.99. I was able to listen to some products . (B&W, Def Tech, and Bose Acoustimass) unfortunately, the store didn't have a lot to sample as far as packages.
I liked the Def-Tech sound and going up a couple of bucks in my budget should pay-off in the future.

My plan is to mounting plan is as follows:
Front speakers: wall mount approximately 6" wider and 6" higher than the TV
Center speaker: Above TV - Aligned Middle
Rear speakers: From ceiling 8 feet behind listener positioned downward to point directly at listener.
Sub: Corner Room Front Lister's Right.
(Diagram A)

As far as incorporating my other pieces from the old system.

I am keeping the Onkyo M804 Power Amp, the Bose 901s with passive EQ, and the Marantz PMD-526C Digital Media player (CD, BT, SD and USB).

I will use the Zone 2 output of the Onkyo TX-RZ830 into the Bose passive EQ then into the M804 to the 901 speakers. The TX-RZ830 will now act as the main media switch replacing the P302. These will be stacked and kept in the same room. Because the M804 is a stand alone stereo only power amp now controlled by the RZ-830 the zone 2 output will be stereo only. Zone 1 will have the new Def-Tech 5.1 Surround. Zone 1 and Zone 2 can be played separately or simultaneously, which is allowed by the RZ-830.

I am a little concerned about delay and can't get a straight definitive answer from any dealer or techs., including Onkyo. Unless someone could share their knowledge concerning this, I;ll just have to try it and see.

Please any other suggestions would be appreciated because I am trying not to miss anything.

 

[lovinthehd]

Rear speakers are used in 7ch setups (rear surrounds). Normal surrounds should be more to the sides than the rear. How about over the doorway? Check out the placement suggestion of Dolby https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/5-1-setup.html

There are far better subs out there than what DefTec currently offers unless the small size appeals to you (and subs do not need to match speakers at all).

Why do you want to play the stereo and 5.1 together? I'd use one or the other but not both together....unless I made the Bose the L/R speakers and used the new ones to make a 7ch system....

 

[g00r00]

I could place the rears closer with one over the door (even down lower to the listeners ear) and other on a stand at the end of the couch. I've got to consider foot traffic into the Master Bedroom because the path into the room is directly behind the couch.

The Bose can be played separately in stereo or together with the 5.1 surround. The REAL reason - Only because I want to keep the M804 and the 901s and to just hear what it'll sound like. Could sound like crap or it could sound great.

I agree, there are much better subs, but the box size is a large consideration with the limited setup area.

 

[lovinthehd]

Call them surrounds, it's less confusing than "rears" that aren't (and don't hook your surrounds up in a 5.1 configuration using the rear surround terminals, it won't work).

Having multiple speakers playing the L/R channels isn't usually recommended for acoustic reasons (comb filtering/cancellation), but heck if you like it that's all that matters. Your avr has pre-outs so you could still use the Bose eq/power amp combo as L/R (and that way either with the surround system or by themselves in stereo mode).

Keep in mind Hoffman's Iron Law...

 

[g00r00]

Ok, Thanks for the info. and the proper "Jargon." As I stated above, I've been out of the game for a few years.

Looking at the Dolby 5.1 diagram link you provided. I see where the "Surrounds" should be placed in relationship to the listener while seated on the couch. However, it doesn't reveal (or I missed it) the horizontal level of the surrounds. Should the surrounds be placed equal to or higher than the listeners ear when seated? If higher, how much higher can be allowed? If mounted higher, should distance to the rear be increased, or remain the same? Is it permissible to direct the speakers towards the listeners seated position?

I know, a bunch of questions, but I figure it's better to ask them now, than put things where they shouldn't go.

I think I have a grasp of where the fronts, center and sub placement should go concerning my layout. It's the surrounds that give me question.

 

[sholling]

I'd suggest repurposing your old system (electronics and speakers) to your master bedroom or a den. That's what I do as much as is practical with old electronics when I upgrade. Family room -------> master bedroom -------> home office ------> guest room. In that space good quality non-reflecting speakers should give you a very defined defined sound, from at least 60 to 20,000 hz) and close your eyes and point out where the instruments are imaging.

If you go with rear ported speakers I'd place them where the Bose are sitting but with the tweeters at ear level or angled to aim at ear level where you are sitting. I like to take advantage of the port to lower the crossover point between the speakers and the sub.

I'm stumped on the surrounds. It looks like in-ceiling would be cost prohibitive to cable and install. In the past I've used wide dispersion speakers in tight spaces but while that would work for the right side there is no place to put one to the left without blocking traffic. I'm stumped.

 

[g00r00]

Correct, the left Surround is the question concerning placement and mounting.

As far as hanging them, I have an electrician friend who can get in tight areas and has been in my attic to run router cables and various other wires. He won't gouge me to run the wire. However, the issue with ceiling mounting is the down-tubes length and actual ceiling attachment strength integrity. I don't have beams that run across , only truss. The ceiling drywall is attached to the truss. There is no way to know what the relationship of the trusses are to the entertainment area to ensure proper placement. So the variables of mounting strength and placement exist. I am not willing to gamble on the strength of the ceiling drywall. It wouldn't be cool pulling a chunk of the ceiling down.

It may come down to wall mounting the Right surround from the wall, as suggested by "Lovinthehd," and use a far shelf further across the room. That distance is about 10 feet away so it would make the system layout more of a rhomboid. I am afraid the left surround would be lost positioned too far away from the others for an optimal sound pattern. The 3rd option is to put the L surround on a floor stand towards the rear of the couch. The problem with that is, it would probably interfere with the walking patterns in the home.

So the brand of speaker has been solved, but where to put them will be the next challenge I face.

Thanks to you guys for the assistance and the ideas.

 

[lovinthehd]

As to the level of surrounds, a few feet above your ear level isn't an issue, you can always aim them somewhat depending on mount used. I've done the up near the ceiling thing for room traffic reasons myself. Rooms can be so uncooperative I'm with you on not messing with the ceiling albeit for different reasons (why I haven't gone Atmos/immersive tech). The distance thing may not be too bad at 10 ft...and it is just a surround....with proper tweak to level/delay it'd probably work well enough. Maybe you can rig a temporary way of placing the speaker over there to experiment?