No sound below -40db?

[RobbieKnobbie]

I have an older Yamaha rx-v659 ht receiver, and I've been happy with it for years, but I just noticed (or maybe it never bothered me before?) that until I turn the volume above -40db or so, it makes virtually no sound. So from -85 to -40 I get pretty much nothing. For movie watching we turn it to about -20 or -15. Past -5, I worry about offending the neighbors

Is this normal (in which case, why bother having the dial go down to -85??) or is there something wrong with my setup. I've tried it with three different sets of main speakers, my old Technics 15 inchers, some KLH 4-woofer towers, and the Infinity 2004 towers. All are more or less the same, so I don't think its a case of the speakers being super inefficient.

I have a Pioneer receiver in my office, and by -40 I'm just about shaking my pictures off the walls (slight exaggeration)

 

[slipperybidness]

"Volume" knob setting is completely arbitrary.

As long as you can attain the desired output volume, don't worry about it, enjoy it.

If you would like to learn more, read up on "gain structure". Note that the "volume" knob is better described as an "input attenuator knob".

This question comes up so often, we really need a sticky thread on it!

 

[lovinthehd]

Also somewhat depends what you did in the way of calibration of those volume scales; probably more comparable with the different speakers and same avr (using YPAO or spl meter?), it may not be comparable to another avr. Also could make a difference as to different source levels and content of course. Is the Pioneer in your office an avr (and you've run MCACC?) or another type of unit? I have my avrs set to turn on at -40 as that's a reasonable but definitely audible level...

 

[RobbieKnobbie]

Not to be snarky or anything, but isn't it the whole reason the manufacturers switched from the old 1 to 100 volume scales to the 'new' decibel scales so that they numbers would have meaning?

As for calibration, yes you are correct, I used the YPAO setup, but iirc, they only have a plus/minus 3 or 6 db effect anyway.

I went through all the on screen settings, and I didn't see anything that would account for no response for the first 45 db, in fact most of the settings from YPAO were plus a db here and there, but nothing drastic. I was wondering, really, if there's a setting in there someplace that would account for this, like large vs small speakers or something? Oh well.

For what its worth, the stereo in my office is a 2 channel integrated amp, not an a/vr. On that system, background music is around -50 or 60 (and I only turn it up after everyone else goes home, promise!)

 

[lovinthehd]

Not all old volume scales were 1-100. There are the calibrated avr scales that can switch between relative and absolute, but are essentially the same scales (still 1 dB increments),tied to the movie standard such as it is. There are avrs not tied to a calibration at all and go from 1-60 or other arbitrary numbers. Your integrated amp likely has a completely different scale than your avr, tho.

If you are using a calibrated relative scale, 0 is reference volume for the standard somewhat applied to movies, music could be all over the place. Different source levels can make a difference as well....

If the avr is calibrated and using the reference scale -40 should be 40 dB down from reference movie level so roughly 45 dB average, 65dB peaks plus 10dB for the LFE channel....not loud but not silent or no sound.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

technically it's not the "volume" knob, but power reducing knob. Another issue that you need to keep in mind is your receiver has no direct "idea" on what volume actually is. What your speaker's impedance nor efficiency is.
Both highly important to end result in how loud your speakers will play, this again - it's not a "volume" knob, but think of it as power knob.

edit: Forgot one of the most crucial one: Distance from you to speakers.

 

[PENG]

I have an older Yamaha rx-v659 ht receiver, and I've been happy with it for years, but I just noticed (or maybe it never bothered me before?) that until I turn the volume above -40db or so, it makes virtually no sound. So from -85 to -40 I get pretty much nothing. For movie watching we turn it to about -20 or -15. Past -5, I worry about offending the neighbors

Is this normal (in which case, why bother having the dial go down to -85??) or is there something wrong with my setup. I've tried it with three different sets of main speakers, my old Technics 15 inchers, some KLH 4-woofer towers, and the Infinity 2004 towers. All are more or less the same, so I don't think its a case of the speakers being super inefficient.

I have a Pioneer receiver in my office, and by -40 I'm just about shaking my pictures off the walls (slight exaggeration)

You probably should do a factory reset to restore the original factory default settings. Other things to double check are to try different sources, though watching movie at -20 to -15 and being able to offend neighbors at -5 seems normal. Did you watch movie using a blu ray player, if so, how loud/soft was it at -40? Different media players do have different output levels.

 

[mtrycrafts]

How far away are you when you noticed no sound below -40, normal listening seat or right next to the speaker? Maybe the room's noise floor is too high?

 

[HTfreak2004]

It’s because the noise floor in your room is probably 40-42 db without anything playing through your speakers. Also remember if your sitting say 8.5 to 10 feet from your mains it’s like having a noise floor 4-6 db higher. That means you won’t hear anything until your volume is at about -40 to -35. Late at night when your house is so quite from the noise floor dropping about 10 db in your room -45 -40 will be audibly loud. -30 will be like -20 during the day because every 10 db is perceived as twice as loud. It’s all about inside noise compared to the outside noise your drowning out!


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[Swerd]

I have an older Yamaha rx-v659 ht receiver, and I've been happy with it for years, but I just noticed (or maybe it never bothered me before?) that until I turn the volume above -40db or so, it makes virtually no sound.

Is this normal (in which case, why bother having the dial go down to -85??) or is there something wrong with my setup. I've tried it with three different sets of main speakers, my old Technics 15 inchers, some KLH 4-woofer towers, and the Infinity 2004 towers. All are more or less the same, so I don't think its a case of the speakers being super inefficient.

Not to be snarky or anything, but isn't it the whole reason the manufacturers switched from the old 1 to 100 volume scales to the 'new' decibel scales so that they numbers would have meaning?

You're overthinking this. Or underthinking it. I'm not sure which .

Before that decibel scale can mean anything, your receiver has to know what speakers you are using, their impedance and sensitivity, plus the acoustic properties of your room, speaker positions, and listening positions.

The automated "calibration" and EQ routines available on receivers, adjust loudness of individual speakers to balance them, checks polarity of the speakers, and attempts to equalize their in room response. But they cannot actually calibrate loudness without being able to compare the measured loudness of your speakers in your room to that of an accurate source of known loudness. That's why I put quotes around the word calibration, because it's a misnomer.

You can always try to measure loudness with a handheld SPL meter. You'll see what you measure doesn't correlate well with what your volume knob says. But remember that most low priced handheld SPL meters made for use by amateurs aren't more accurate than ±5% over most of the audio spectrum. To get greater accuracy and true calibration in a SPL meter, that meets international technical and legal standards, you'd have to pay quite a lot more – many thousands of $.

Without that, the decibel scale is simply a relative scale that might as well be 1 to 100. As BoredSysAdmin said, think of it as a power knob not a volume knob.

 

[HTfreak2004]

Swerd said: Before that decibel scale can mean anything, your receiver has to know what speakers you are using, their impedance and sensitivity, plus the acoustic properties of your room


There is no way for any receiver or processor to know a speakers sensitivity or impedance or any room characteristics.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Swerd said: Before that decibel scale can mean anything, your receiver has to know what speakers you are using, their impedance and sensitivity, plus the acoustic properties of your room


There is no way for any receiver or processor to know a speakers sensitivity or impedance or any room characteristics.

When are the AI amps come out so it can talk to the speaker and ask.

 

[HTfreak2004]

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