Can a 80 watt receiver put out more than 80 watt?

[RHD]

Still trying to learn the tech side of stuff. If a receiver is rated at 80 watt, can it supply more than that? In other words, if a receiver is rated 80 watt, and the speaker is rated 100 cont/300 peak, does speaker damage happen?

 

[Leemix]

Short answer is -yes it can if you are very rough with the volume knob.


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[mtrycrafts]

It may try to deliver more than the 80 watts continuous average power if you turn up the volume even more but it will also start to clip and distort the signal.
If it is a dynamic signal requiring above 80 watts, it will do it.
Yes, it will power your speaker. Depending on speaker sensitivity, that 80 Watts would be plenty loud.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Still trying to learn the tech side of stuff. If a receiver is rated at 80 watt, can it supply more than that? In other words, if a receiver is rated 80 watt, and the speaker is rated 100 cont/300 peak, does speaker damage happen?

you're missing one crucial detail. Speakers impedance. Receivers typically rated for (a typical) 8 ohm (again nominal) speaker, If you plug in 4ohm speakers and play REALLY loudly, it will likely to try to provide more than 80 watts. Depends on amp design it either distort the sound or plays nice and clean.
Also, speaker sensitivity (or efficiency) is crucial here.
So no, no simple answers, except it depends

 

[j_garcia]

Another crucial detail that is missing is the simple fact that you are not using 100% of the amp's power 100% of the time (assuming AB amp),so what you are asking does not exactly apply.

Another detail, speakers power level numbers for the speaker are "recommended" not "required" for sound. Those numbers are MAX, as in where things fail, not what they need to produce sound. The reality is, you are using only a 5-10 watts average for average listening levels with a typical speaker in an average size room. Peak demand is usually momentary, so you may consume that 80W for a few seconds at a time while listening.

 

[lovinthehd]

To picture the actual range of an avr amp section (beyond it's spec'd rating),try to find a bench test with a graphic like this to show where the rated wattage for a given distortion level is vs where the amp can go at higher distortion for wattage....this is from a Pioneer 1130 bench test Sound & Vision did which is spec'd for 100wpc, rated at 2ch driven 100wpc 20-20kHz .08% thd, where you can see the power nearly doubles at 2% thd

 

[gene]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...the power nearly doubles at 2% thd...

That's why some people say that when an Amp clips, it will output approximately twice the rated power.

@Irvrobinson asked me once where this "doubling of power" came from.

So yeah, if an AVR can output 100W into 8 ohms, it could output 200W into 8 ohms if the AVR clips.

This is where the Protection Circuit comes in, right?

Hopefully, the AVR will SHUT DOWN in Protection Mode.

I believe Yamaha is know to be very stringent on their protection circuits.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's why some people say that when an Amp clips, it will output approximately twice the rated power.

@Irvrobinson asked me once where this "doubling of power" came from.

So yeah, if an AVR can output 100W into 8 ohms, it could output 200W into 8 ohms if the AVR clips.

This is where the Protection Circuit comes in, right?

Hopefully, the AVR will SHUT DOWN in Protection Mode.

I believe Yamaha is know to be very stringent on their protection circuits.

2% isn't clipping necessarily, is it? Doubt the protection circuit would kick in at such a level either.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

2% isn't clipping necessarily, is it? Doubt the protection circuit would kick in at such a level either.

I think a lot of people consider anything greater than 1% THD as clipping when it comes to power amps.

Some people (like someone at Outlaw Audio told me) think that 1% THD is considered "Clipping", which I didn't agree with. I think it's greater than 1% THD.

Hopefully the Protection Circuit kicks in WAY BEFORE that happens.

 

[Irvrobinson]

To picture the actual range of an avr amp section (beyond it's spec'd rating),try to find a bench test with a graphic like this to show where the rated wattage for a given distortion level is vs where the amp can go at higher distortion for wattage....this is from a Pioneer 1130 bench test Sound & Vision did which is spec'd for 100wpc, rated at 2ch driven 100wpc 20-20kHz .08% thd, where you can see the power nearly doubles at 2% thd
View attachment 29284

I don't know anything about Pioneer receivers, but that chart is definitely not typical of a Class AB output stage. I'm guessing that's a Class D amplifier channel. Class AB output stages typically have a distortion versus output power curve that has a very steep knee in it, and there's seldom a doubling of power once you hit the knee. More like about 1db. Dinosaur that I am about amplifiers, I wasn't thinking of Class D amplifiers when I asked ADTG about doubling of power during clipping.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know anything about Pioneer receivers, but that chart is definitely not typical of a Class AB output stage. I'm guessing that's a Class D amplifier channel. Class AB output stages typically have a distortion versus - output power curve that has a very steep knee in it, and there's seldom a doubling of power once you hit the knee. More like about 1db. Dinosaur that I am about amplifiers, I wasn't thinking of Class D amplifiers when I asked ADTG about doubling of power during clipping.

Hmmmm, it wasn't the amount above rating I was particularly after, just to demonstrate the amp doesn't just cut off at the rating. I just searched Pioneer since he had one....and it may have class D amps...so here's another avr with AB, a Denon 4520 rated at 150wpc:

 

[M Code]

When asking How much power is outputted from a receiver or amplifier rated @ 80W per channel.. One needs to also ask @ "What THD level and for How long..."

Just my $0.02...

 

[Paul DS]

A good rule of thumb: If it sounds bad, TURN IT DOWN. Follow that simple guideline and you most likely won't run into trouble.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That's why some people say that when an Amp clips, it will output approximately twice the rated power.

@Irvrobinson asked me once where this "doubling of power" came from.

So yeah, if an AVR can output 100W into 8 ohms, it could output 200W into 8 ohms if the AVR clips.

This is where the Protection Circuit comes in, right?

Hopefully, the AVR will SHUT DOWN in Protection Mode.

I believe Yamaha is know to be very stringent on their protection circuits.

Amp rating is continuous average power: I rms X E rms. Peak current X peak Voltage gives you peak power as well, 2x continuous average power.
That is where 2x comes from.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Amp rating is continuous average power: I rms X E rms. Peak current X peak Voltage gives you peak power as well, 2x continuous average power.
That is where 2x comes from.

Not if clipping is occurring, which is what my question regarded.

 

[ski2xblack]

Not if clipping is occurring, which is what my question regarded.

Concerning a sine wave, which is what mtry is using to calculate the peak value, let's say you increase the volume knob until your amp hits it's current/voltage limits, then the peaks would be flattened. Power would increase quite a bit more than the difference between the rms and peak values for the unclipped sine wave.

This a probably a crude oversimplification of the calculus involved, but the way I tend to conceptualize it is that the power applied is represented by the area under the curve, and a clipped sine wave will have considerably more area under the curve than an unclipped sine wave. During clipping, the supply rails would be cooking at full tile boogie banging against their limits, delivering however much power they can, continuously, for the full duration of the clipped signal.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Not if clipping is occurring, which is what my question regarded.

Peak of an unclipped sine wave is peak power which is 2x of continuous average power.
Simple math. Known RMS E and I of an unclipped sine wave gives peaks of 1.414 of RMS value. It also gives peak power; it has to.
Peak power is 2x of continuous average power.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Peak of an unclipped sine wave is peak power which is 2x of continuous average power.
Simple math. Known RMS E and I of an unclipped sine wave gives peaks of 1.414 of RMS value. It also gives peak power; it has to.
Peak power is 2x of continuous average power.

ADTG and I were discussing clipping power, and the fourth word you type is unclipped. I'm aware of this math. You are unaware of the context of the question.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Concerning a sine wave, which is what mtry is using to calculate the peak value, let's say you increase the volume knob until your amp hits it's current/voltage limits, then the peaks would be flattened. Power would increase quite a bit more than the difference between the rms and peak values for the unclipped sine wave.

This a probably a crude oversimplification of the calculus involved, but the way I tend to conceptualize it is that the power applied is represented by the area under the curve, and a clipped sine wave will have considerably more area under the curve than an unclipped sine wave. During clipping, the supply rails would be cooking at full tile boogie banging against their limits, delivering however much power they can, continuously, for the full duration of the clipped signal.

Close, but no cigar. What is the characteristic of a fully clipped signal, and what would its voltage level be relative to the peaks? (Hint: not 2x RMS.)