To Recap or Upgrade

VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
To recap or not recap is the question. My Yamaha amp is now 33 years old (Carver TFM-35x is at 24 years) that powers my now 24 year old Carver AL-III speakers (custom active crossover) (See https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/carver-speaker-s-jpg.28476/) and the Yamaha is showing hints the electrolytic caps are starting to fail (protection circuit kicks in at volume levels in the high 90s when they should make it to at least 104dB...dire so far I know, but I've tripped it a half dozen times in the past 5 years and only once ever before that (testing in the 1990s). Given the age, it's overdue (expect 20-30 years life on a good amp before they start failing, although that's just an average, they can go sooner). That was at a different house so it's possible it isn't a failing cap or it could be another issue altogether or it's possible I'm just playing certain music with momentary peaks too loud. Hmm, actually I just downloaded the service manual (never did have a manual, even the user one).

I'm looking at ~8 hours an an average power amp (like 30-40 caps to desolder to do them all to be sure and then solder in the new ones plus time assembling and disassembling everything and looking for any other issues and getting the dust out while your'e at it). Some places will do this monotonous work for you for $200-400, but then you can probably get a recapped amp already to go in many cases on eBay (depending on what it is you're trying to fix).

I never looked on eBay for a Yamaha M-45 before, but apparently it's better known than I imagined as there are a half dozen for sale. I think I paid $250 for it back in 1997 used (11 years old at the time) from a dealer who just got it on a trade-in towards a McIntosh. With inflation, that's about $397 today. Caps typically in the $70-120 range (haven't looked for this one yet plus figure 8 hours of labor) so it's a wash, I suppose. Or I can upgrade to a higher power amp (lots of Carver TFM-25s out there, many recapped already and they do 350W @ 4 Ohms compared to the M-45's 170W into 4 Ohms),but the Yamaha is a Class A/AB amp, although the "A" mode doesn't do me much good as it's hardly ever in that power range (Carver ribbons are hungry for power) and puts out a TON of heat in that mode so I leave it off).

Anyone have any opinions on the M-45 and whether it's worth keeping (or getting one already recapped) or should I go for more power while I'm at it? There's also the Yamaha M-80 (250/330) with the same Auto class A option and input gain controls not typical on many power amps. Maybe something brand new like an Emotiva A-300 for a similar price? (300W into 4 Ohms).
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Could you be more specific? C'est très populaire.
Well, just different strokes. :D

I’d rather get a Yamaha PX3 amp. You could get a very good condition PX3 from Amazon for $238.

But the Emo will sound fine like any amp. Just different strokes.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
PX3... Looked it up. Some thought the fan was too loud. Seems to have some kind EQ built-in. I dunno. I like quiet.

Now THIS is something I could go for in the same power range as the M-45 (definitely not the same price range). But god are those green tubes pretty. :D

McIntosh MA252 Angle Right.jpg
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Now, I like this one. The Behringer A-800 2x400W (into 4 Ohms) Pro Amp (Class D) "Pro" amp with no fans for a VERY reasonable price ($250 range new). I'd put this to 10" bass driver duty on the Carvers and move the TFM-35x to the ribbons.

Behringer A800.jpg
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
No way I would let any Behringer amps near my speakers. :D

As for the Yamaha PX3, I played with it last week. The fans are quiet and I can’t hear the fans from 3 FT away. The good thing is that the 2 fans can be removed just like on a PC. Pop the hood (by removing screws),unplug the 3-pin, and remove the fan screws.



 
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VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
Hmmm, I used a Behringer microphone on my album. Awesome near-field mic; I didn't need a booth and it worked great for acoustic guitar and vocals. What's wrong with their amps?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
PX3... Looked it up. Some thought the fan was too loud. Seems to have some kind EQ built-in. I dunno. I like quiet.

Now THIS is something I could go for in the same power range as the M-45 (definitely not the same price range). But god are those green tubes pretty. :D

View attachment 28824
The tubes don't light up green- those are lights in the amp. Not sure how they go from orange glow to green, but.....McIntosh's colors used to be Blue & Black with silver.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
If access to the caps is easy, recap, I would.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hmmm, I used a Behringer microphone on my album. Awesome near-field mic; I didn't need a booth and it worked great for acoustic guitar and vocals. What's wrong with their amps?
Behringer and Mackie have a reputation for equipment that works until it doesn't and "when it doesn't" could be anytime from a few days to many years, but there's no way of telling.

That said, I have used some Behringer equipment for years and all of it still works fine.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Audioholic Chief
The tubes don't light up green- those are lights in the amp. Not sure how they go from orange glow to green, but.....McIntosh's colors used to be Blue & Black with silver.
That's too bad, really. It reminded me of Wrath of Kahn with the Genesis device lighting up as Khan turned the controls. Yeah, I've seen blue, purple, orange and even red tubes, but never green. I thought maybe they added something to the tube to change the color (like a noble gas kind of thing they used to make different "neon" tube colors; neon itself is only red AFAIK).
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hmmm, I used a Behringer microphone on my album. Awesome near-field mic; I didn't need a booth and it worked great for acoustic guitar and vocals. What's wrong with their amps?
I don’t trust their quality. They seem cheap. If I’m going pro-amp, I would stick to Yamaha, Crown, or QSC.

Of the 3, the Yamaha PX3 reminds me most of consumer amps because it’s the only one without those Rack Mount Ears that I hate. :D
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That's too bad, really. It reminded me of Wrath of Kahn with the Genesis device lighting up as Khan turned the controls. Yeah, I've seen blue, purple, orange and even red tubes, but never green. I thought maybe they added something to the tube to change the color (like a noble gas kind of thing they used to make different "neon" tube colors; neon itself is only red AFAIK).
Blue only happens when the plate is energized; purple is usually an 83 Mercury vapor rectifier and red happens when something goes terribly wrong. Orange is good, though.

I though Neon glows orange and other colors are the result of adding something like Sodium, Mercury, etc.
 
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