Yamaha RX-Z9 vs NEW RX-A3080

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Think the 5100 over the 5200 in case Dolby forces Yamaha to lock out DTS NeuralX.on Dolby sources.

Good point. Also less expensive in terms of MSRP.

 

[Zega]

Hello John,

My current setup is a Yamaha Z9 connected to Oppo 105 on the 7.0 MCH and the performance is amazing. Bass management is done on the Oppo and the Sub is connected to the Oppo directly. Having done extensive reading up about Z9 especially about its audiophile sound quality and revolutionary design / components, i don't want to lose my Z9 as they dont make these kind of amps anymore. I would like to retain the Z9 for pure analog audio ( movies and MCH Audio).

Now i would like to add Yamaha CX-5200 and Panasonic UB9000 (BD Player) to my setup.
My options for the audio is as follows;
1) Use 7 MCH analog input on the Z9 from CX-5200 and add a second amp to drive the other 4 channels for Atmos.
2) Use the Power-amp IN on the Z9 ( Main L/R + C) connected directly to the CX-5200 ( thereby completely bypassing the volume control and other circuitry). Then for the 4 channel surrounds, connect to the MCH analog input on the Z9 ( which has the volume control in the circuit) and then use an external 4 ch amp for the 4 Atmos channels. I am not sure if this combo works. Was just trying to keep the from L/R+C as pure and direct as possible.

Although the DSP processing on the Z9 for 7.1MCH analog is good even after redigitization, i would like to get the CX-5200 for their AI based DSP which has gotten good reviews. I am somehow trying to use new technologies / formats on the Digital side without losing my Z9 which will be assigned Analog duties. At the end of the audio chain, the final format is analog anyway.

Your thoughts on the above will be highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Rajesh

Rajesh, that sounds wonderful!
The most important thing is to trust your instincts and to do whatever sounds the best to you.
There is a huge difference in between the new and the old amps, for those who have "ears that hear". Their character is so unique.
I'd imagine that the CX-5200 is amazing, as it should be somewhat similar to the RX-A3080 that I have.
But better, of course. As they have the same high end DAC, but the CX-5200 has two of them instead of one, along with other higher end components. The MX-A5200 is rated at 150W (8 ohm, 0.06% THD. The RX-A3080 amp is also rated at 150W 8 ohms, 0.06% THD. While your Z9 amp is rated at 170W 8 ohms .015% THD! To combine the CX-5200 and the Z9 amp sounds absolutely blissful, to say the least!
I wish you a great deal of fun in this new adventure of yours!
I also look forward to hearing of John's experiences with his new CX-5200. Though, from what I understand he will be using it with his new Monoprice Monolith amp and not his Z9.
All the best!

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Hello John,

My current setup is a Yamaha Z9 connected to Oppo 105 on the 7.0 MCH and the performance is amazing. Bass management is done on the Oppo and the Sub is connected to the Oppo directly. Having done extensive reading up about Z9 especially about its audiophile sound quality and revolutionary design / components, i don't want to lose my Z9 as they dont make these kind of amps anymore. I would like to retain the Z9 for pure analog audio ( movies and MCH Audio).

Now i would like to add Yamaha CX-5200 and Panasonic UB9000 (BD Player) to my setup.
My options for the audio is as follows;
1) Use 7 MCH analog input on the Z9 from CX-5200 and add a second amp to drive the other 4 channels for Atmos.
2) Use the Power-amp IN on the Z9 ( Main L/R + C) connected directly to the CX-5200 ( thereby completely bypassing the volume control and other circuitry). Then for the 4 channel surrounds, connect to the MCH analog input on the Z9 ( which has the volume control in the circuit) and then use an external 4 ch amp for the 4 Atmos channels. I am not sure if this combo works. Was just trying to keep the from L/R+C as pure and direct as possible.

Although the DSP processing on the Z9 for 7.1MCH analog is good even after redigitization, i would like to get the CX-5200 for their AI based DSP which has gotten good reviews. I am somehow trying to use new technologies / formats on the Digital side without losing my Z9 which will be assigned Analog duties. At the end of the audio chain, the final format is analog anyway.

Your thoughts on the above will be highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Rajesh

Hello, I personally

Hello John,

My current setup is a Yamaha Z9 connected to Oppo 105 on the 7.0 MCH and the performance is amazing. Bass management is done on the Oppo and the Sub is connected to the Oppo directly. Having done extensive reading up about Z9 especially about its audiophile sound quality and revolutionary design / components, i don't want to lose my Z9 as they dont make these kind of amps anymore. I would like to retain the Z9 for pure analog audio ( movies and MCH Audio).

Now i would like to add Yamaha CX-5200 and Panasonic UB9000 (BD Player) to my setup.
My options for the audio is as follows;
1) Use 7 MCH analog input on the Z9 from CX-5200 and add a second amp to drive the other 4 channels for Atmos.
2) Use the Power-amp IN on the Z9 ( Main L/R + C) connected directly to the CX-5200 ( thereby completely bypassing the volume control and other circuitry). Then for the 4 channel surrounds, connect to the MCH analog input on the Z9 ( which has the volume control in the circuit) and then use an external 4 ch amp for the 4 Atmos channels. I am not sure if this combo works. Was just trying to keep the from L/R+C as pure and direct as possible.

Although the DSP processing on the Z9 for 7.1MCH analog is good even after redigitization, i would like to get the CX-5200 for their AI based DSP which has gotten good reviews. I am somehow trying to use new technologies / formats on the Digital side without losing my Z9 which will be assigned Analog duties. At the end of the audio chain, the final format is analog anyway.

Your thoughts on the above will be highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Rajesh

I agree with you the Yamaha RX-Z9 is one incredible piece of equipment, The processing is phenomenal the sound quality is phenomenal everything about that receiver just reeks of quality, even the chassis.. However I would buy a multi channel power amp like the Monolith, I worked for a dealer so I decided to buy the McIntosh and absolutely love it. As far as the Z9 power amps you are right it’s the best amp Yamaha has ever put in a AVR period. So my McIntosh runs my mains and Monolith runs my surrounds, center , and front effect speakers. I also have thought about purchasing a CX-A5200 but now I’ve heard about the HDMI switching is very sluggish , and surround Ai be careful, I have been messing around with Cinema DSP for probably over 20 some odd years, there’s something about letting the processor make adjustments on the fly I know it will never be perfect . And I’m afraid it would adjust the surround delay too much and therefore making things sound like it’s in a tunnel , you need to adjust those parameters on your own. I use my 3070 and the Yamaha app to adjust parameters of DSP modes that I want to use ,then put those parameters into my Z9 and it’s phenomenal especially the Adventure mode set down to room size 0.1 with the proper delays and DSP level. Way bigger of a difference then DTS-HD-MA . Core DTS sounds great.. at the end of the day I think the speakers are your most important component you can have. a crappy stereo with great speakers and it’s probably going to sound good still. If you had crap speakers with a great stereo it’s still going to sound like garbage.

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Hello, I personally

I agree with you the Yamaha RX-Z9 is one incredible piece of equipment, The processing is phenomenal the sound quality is phenomenal everything about that receiver just reeks of quality, even the chassis.. However I would buy a multi channel power amp like the Monolith, I worked for a dealer so I decided to buy the McIntosh and absolutely love it. As far as the Z9 power amps you are right it’s the best amp Yamaha has ever put in a AVR period. So my McIntosh runs my mains and Monolith runs my surrounds, center , and front effect speakers. I also have thought about purchasing a CX-A5200 but now I’ve heard about the HDMI switching is very sluggish , and surround Ai be careful, I have been messing around with Cinema DSP for probably over 20 some odd years, there’s something about letting the processor make adjustments on the fly I know it will never be perfect . And I’m afraid it would adjust the surround delay too much and therefore making things sound like it’s in a tunnel , you need to adjust those parameters on your own. I use my 3070 and the Yamaha app to adjust parameters of DSP modes that I want to use ,then put those parameters into my Z9 and it’s phenomenal especially the Adventure mode set down to room size 0.1 with the proper delays and DSP level. Way bigger of a difference then DTS-HD-MA . Core DTS sounds great.. at the end of the day I think the speakers are your most important component you can have. a crappy stereo with great speakers and it’s probably going to sound good still. If you had crap speakers with a great stereo it’s still going to sound like garbage.

I have the A3080 and it has similar issues with hdmi switching. It’s only a few seconds but noticeably longer than my SR7008. I doesn’t bother me much since I’m not constantly swapping inputs.

Surround AI is a neat tool. There are some sources I’ve found that only sound right using it. (Mostly dvr recordings from NBC). I do notice the “tunnel effect” sometimes on shows with a narrator. I’m not sure why but enabling virtual height and virtual surround back speakers (only running 5.2 at the moment) seems to help a bit with that. That said, I still prefer using other dsp. It’s usually on surround decode or sci-fi.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Everyone uses SCI-FI because it’s the less echoy of all the movie modes. I think Yamaha did a great job when they designed the app because you can make each of the DSP modes a less spacious or more spacious , however that’s the downfall to AI if they make it too spacious it’s going to sound like you’re in a tunnel. The problem with sci-fi is once you start turning it down to make it less spacious it kind of kills the mode. I have found Adventure Parameters to be perfect even when adjusted way down

 

[Sef_Makaro]

Everyone uses SCI-FI because it’s the less echoy of all the movie modes. I think Yamaha did a great job when they designed the app because you can make each of the DSP modes a less spacious or more spacious , however that’s the downfall to AI if they make it too spacious it’s going to sound like you’re in a tunnel. The problem with sci-fi is once you start turning it down to make it less spacious it kind of kills the mode. I have found Adventure Parameters to be perfect even when adjusted way down

Definitely agree on the app. The app is half the reason my wife likes the new system so much. She says she feels like she can actually ply with settings and find what she likes.

I had an idea of what DSPs I’d like before I even heard them. While anxiously awaiting delivery I read through the manual and found a description of what each dsp tries to do. I knew I wanted to try out the Sci-Fi and Adventure settings based on that.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Basically they’re all different sized rooms they are replicating , for an example SCI-FI is 3 ms surround delay. Adventure is 13ms , while Spectacle is 32ms. I was given a surround Blu-ray from DTS, which had a great demo that I could use with all modes un modified to see what they sounded like . Personally I think they all sound the same except obviously some sounded like small rooms others like huge rooms , the more delay added whether it’s the initial delay or the surround delay the further away the subject matter will sound. And remember too much delay will make your left and right main speakers sound echoey when paning.

 

[rrao]

Rajesh, that sounds wonderful!
The most important thing is to trust your instincts and to do whatever sounds the best to you.
There is a huge difference in between the new and the old amps, for those who have "ears that hear". Their character is so unique.
I'd imagine that the CX-5200 is amazing, as it should be somewhat similar to the RX-A3080 that I have.
But better, of course. As they have the same high end DAC, but the CX-5200 has two of them instead of one, along with other higher end components. The MX-A5200 is rated at 150W (8 ohm, 0.06% THD. The RX-A3080 amp is also rated at 150W 8 ohms, 0.06% THD. While your Z9 amp is rated at 170W 8 ohms .015% THD! To combine the CX-5200 and the Z9 amp sounds absolutely blissful, to say the least!
I wish you a great deal of fun in this new adventure of yours!
I also look forward to hearing of John's experiences with his new CX-5200. Though, from what I understand he will be using it with his new Monoprice Monolith amp and not his Z9.
All the best!

Hi Zega,

The Z9 has been performing superbly driving Sonus Faber Luito Range for 7 channels. The Adventure/Sci-Fi modes on the DSP was also very good despite re-digitization of the incoming 7.1 analog signals from the Oppo-105.
Apart from the Z9, i also own a Yamaha A-S2000, Naim XS2, Denon PMA-2020AE and a Sansui AU717 (Re-built and restored with modern components) for pure 2CH audio.
I also thought of bringing in the A-S2000 for the L/R and assign all other channels to Z9 but i may have a sonic variation across LCR when 2 amps are involved so finally i am contemplating assigning LCR to Main In on the Z9.
While the surrounds get connected to the 7.1 inputs on the Z9 ( In Pure Direct Mode). I hope that these two schemes can work in parallel. That is one bypassing the Volume control and the other via the volume control.
But, i still need to get a 4 channel amp for the Front/Rear Height channels which is tonally close to the Z9.

Yes, you are right about the tech specs between Z9 and MX-5200. The THD on the Z9 is 1/4th that of the MX.
The Japanese designer behind Z7 and Z11 was the same but the Z9 designer was a different guy whose main goal amongst others was to achieve a very high quality audio so lot of creative talent has gone into the Z9 in that respect. MX series uses the base foundation design from Z11.

Having had the opportunity to compare the Z9 with lot of 2ch amps i do not have any doubts whatsoever of its talent, therefore im somehow not ready to drop the Z9 even if it means lots of inconvenience working around with 2 separate amps.

Thanks for your view point and encouragement.
cheers,
Rajesh

 

[rrao]

Hello, I personally

I agree with you the Yamaha RX-Z9 is one incredible piece of equipment, The processing is phenomenal the sound quality is phenomenal everything about that receiver just reeks of quality, even the chassis.. However I would buy a multi channel power amp like the Monolith, I worked for a dealer so I decided to buy the McIntosh and absolutely love it. As far as the Z9 power amps you are right it’s the best amp Yamaha has ever put in a AVR period. So my McIntosh runs my mains and Monolith runs my surrounds, center , and front effect speakers. I also have thought about purchasing a CX-A5200 but now I’ve heard about the HDMI switching is very sluggish , and surround Ai be careful, I have been messing around with Cinema DSP for probably over 20 some odd years, there’s something about letting the processor make adjustments on the fly I know it will never be perfect . And I’m afraid it would adjust the surround delay too much and therefore making things sound like it’s in a tunnel , you need to adjust those parameters on your own. I use my 3070 and the Yamaha app to adjust parameters of DSP modes that I want to use ,then put those parameters into my Z9 and it’s phenomenal especially the Adventure mode set down to room size 0.1 with the proper delays and DSP level. Way bigger of a difference then DTS-HD-MA . Core DTS sounds great.. at the end of the day I think the speakers are your most important component you can have. a crappy stereo with great speakers and it’s probably going to sound good still. If you had crap speakers with a great stereo it’s still going to sound like garbage.

Hi John,

You are the first person i have heard of who is using only the preamp section of the Z9 and not the power amps. The DSP modes are cool especially listening to a 5.1 SACD
I wonder why you never tried the Z9 power amp across LCR. I always thought that having 2 totally different amps across the LCR would create a sonic imbalance since each amp has its own signature. For this reason i am planning to have one amp(Z9) for Layer 1 ( LCR + Surrounds) and another amp for the 4 Height channels ( front/rear). Any thoughts on this ? I hope to find a suitable 4ch/5Ch amp for the Height duties

You are saying that the DACs and the DSP in Z9 is comparable to those in CXA5200 ? I am really curious why are you still holding on to the Z9 if the amps are not utilized. I thought its better to upgrade the Digital side but if you have good analog stuff hold on to it.
I look forward to your first impressions about CXA-5200.

Cheers,
Rajesh

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Hi John,

You are the first person i have heard of who is using only the preamp section of the Z9 and not the power amps. The DSP modes are cool especially listening to a 5.1 SACD
I wonder why you never tried the Z9 power amp across LCR. I always thought that having 2 totally different amps across the LCR would create a sonic imbalance since each amp has its own signature. For this reason i am planning to have one amp(Z9) for Layer 1 ( LCR + Surrounds) and another amp for the 4 Height channels ( front/rear). Any thoughts on this ? I hope to find a suitable 4ch/5Ch amp for the Height duties

You are saying that the DACs and the DSP in Z9 is comparable to those in CXA5200 ? I am really curious why are you still holding on to the Z9 if the amps are not utilized. I thought its better to upgrade the Digital side but if you have good analog stuff hold on to it.
I look forward to your first impressions about CXA-5200.

Cheers,
Rajesh

Basically with everybody saying that DTS-HD-MA was so much better than Core DTS I basically found out when I bought a 3070 that that was just un true. HDMI for convenience means absolutely nothing to me. I never could get the 3070 to push the subs like my Z9. And believe me they were set up correctly, bass management, using the LFE in , turning the crossover all the way to LFE and leveled with an SPL meter C weighted slow response. And in the receiver set to mono , and dynamic range was also set correctly to maximum, on Yamaha that means feature presentation! Talking to some engineers from Yamaha it turns out that the preamp outs For the subs are low-voltage. My Z9 are 4.0 v 3070 was 1.0 v So before I basically upgrade to the CX 5200 I have to make sure that the subs are going to perform the way that they should. As far as the dacs are concerned, I think that’s just a bunch of BS anymore the Z9 is how old ? And again the 3070 failed. I basically felt that I threw my money away , however I was able to get the unit at cost because I have connections so I only paid 1100 for the unit new. I can get a new 5200 for 1700, And as far as the streaming of all of these units I think that’s a total joke as well because they’re limited to 128 kBps. Wow!! So even if I upgrade to the CX-A5200 I’m going to have to keep my Sonos so I can stream at 256kbps with Amazon music.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

And basically to answer your question the amplifier sections are probably more than suffice but I want to keep my Z9 as new as possible therefore putting as little strain on the unit as possible. Gene gave the Monolith rave reviews and Believe me this amp is built fantastic and performs awesome!! The McIntosh is just flawless and so musical and of course looks fantastic as well

 

[snakeeyes]

Basically with everybody saying that DTS-HD-MA was so much better than Core DTS I basically found out when I bought a 3070 that that was just un true. HDMI for convenience means absolutely nothing to me. I never could get the 3070 to push the subs like my Z9. And believe me they were set up correctly, bass management, using the LFE in , turning the crossover all the way to LFE and leveled with an SPL meter C weighted slow response. And in the receiver set to mono , and dynamic range was also set correctly to maximum, on Yamaha that means feature presentation! Talking to some engineers from Yamaha it turns out that the preamp outs For the subs are low-voltage. My Z9 are 4.0 v 3070 was 1.0 v So before I basically upgrade to the CX 5200 I have to make sure that the subs are going to perform the way that they should. As far as the dacs are concerned, I think that’s just a bunch of BS anymore the Z9 is how old ? And again the 3070 failed. I basically felt that I threw my money away , however I was able to get the unit at cost because I have connections so I only paid 1100 for the unit new. I can get a new 5200 for 1700, And as far as the streaming of all of these units I think that’s a total joke as well because they’re limited to 128 kBps. Wow!! So even if I upgrade to the CX-A5200 I’m going to have to keep my Sonos so I can stream at 256kbps with Amazon music.

Which streaming app on the Yamaha is 128 k? Pandora? What about Spotify? What about Tidal?

 

[ichigo]

I remember the days of the uber receivers. Yamaha RX-Z11 and Denon 5805. Beasts so big they broke your back trying to pick them up

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Which streaming app on the Yamaha is 128 k? Pandora? What about Spotify? What about Tidal?

It’s streaming pandora directly to the receiver Yamaha said max it will stream is 128kbps they also mentioned all of the streaming through the receiver is limited at 128 kbps

 

[snakeeyes]

It’s streaming pandora directly to the receiver Yamaha said max it will stream is 128kbps they also mentioned all of the streaming through the receiver is limited at 128 kbps

Even using the musiccast? Thought these could even support 5Mbps DSD.

Or is the high res just via HDMI?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Even using the musiccast? Thought these could even support 5Mbps DSD.

Or is the high res just via HDMI?

Yes. Call Yamaha. That’s how I was streaming pandora and that is where I noticed it sounded bad. You had to turn on the enhancer , when turned off it sounded like garbage so I decided to connect my Sonos to 3070 and the enhancer made no difference. But according to Yamaha the enhancer won’t do anything over a certain bit rate Which made sense. All streaming devices are limited to 128. Even Pandora I will also tell you that

 

[snakeeyes]

Yes. Call Yamaha. That’s how I was streaming pandora and that is where I noticed it sounded bad. You had to turn on the enhancer , when turned off it sounded like garbage so I decided to connect my Sonos to 3070 and the enhancer made no difference. But according to Yamaha the enhancer won’t do anything over a certain bit rate Which made sense. All streaming devices are limited to 128. Even Pandora I will also tell you that

So you are using one of the $600 Sonos Amps to gain a little better streaming?

Couldn’t you use like a MAC mini or some type of computer?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

So you are using one of the $600 Sonos Amps to gain a little better streaming?

Couldn’t you use like a MAC mini or some type of computer?

No I have the Sonos bridge and there is a unit that sits behind my center channel but hooked up to my Z9 digitally

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

It’s called the Sonos connect it has a digital out to run directly to your home theater

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

And Sonos says there’s no BS you stream at the highest quality that the provider provides