Onkyo RZ3100 and Emotiva amps pre out voltage question

[ryan44]

Hi new to the forum. I can't say enough on how all the audioholics vidoes on youtube have really helped me understand the right directions to take with my HT setup. I am in the middle of building a new home and purchasing this new HT setup.

I've researched a lot on voltage output of AVR's and Amps. I've read the article on this site as well on it and think I understand some of it. My question is am I fine with my Onkyo AVR and Emotiva amps? From what I take on it most people say that even though onkyo says it outputs 1.0v its actually much higher and to not worry about it as it will be ok with the 1.5v on the Emotiva XPA/DR amps.

Is this correct? Or is my Onkyo not a good fit for the Emotiva amps. I've considered selling the RZ3100 and just buying the Emotiva RMC-1. Reason being having this cloud of voltage question over my head is driving me nuts that I could be wasting power on my emotiva amps.

Pre out specs from onkyo
Rated RCA Output Level and Impedance 1.0 V/330 Ohms (Pre Out)
1.0 V/330 Ohms (Subwoofer Pre Out)
200 mV/1.2 k-ohms (Zone Out)
2.0 V/1.2 k-ohms (Zone Pre Out)

Thank you for any insight anyone can provide!


HT Specs ** is what I own today
**Onkyo RZ3100 just powering atmos speakers
**Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 1 will be powering Surrounds
Emotiva XPA-DR3 Towers and Center

**Klipsch RF7-iii Towers
Klipsch RC64 iii Center
Klipsch RP502 Surround
Klipsch RP5000 Rears
**Klipsch CDT-5800ii 4
Klipsch Either the 15's or SPL12s haven't decided yet

 

[ryanosaur]

I had very similar concerns and questions myself. In general, everybody said most modern gear is compatible with little concern. I have a marantz reciever rated at 1.4v preout and was considering the emo dr-3 which is 2.5v sensitivity. even there, emo techs said I would be fine. went a different direction though.
@PENG is a great source of info and advice here. He helped me out A LOT!

 

[ryan44]

Ryanosaur, thank you so much for the feedback. Much Appreciated!! I think my next question is selling my RZ3100 and buying a RMC with XLR connections worth it? Or am I just flushing money down the toliet!!

 

[ryanosaur]

The feature set on that is pretty insane! I've got eyes for it too... in 20 years maybe.
For preamp to amp, you really don't need xlrs. I was reminded of this earlier by another friend here. The likelihood of picking up distortion between the two units or so minimal! But some of those Pre-pros only offer that.

I guess where you really need to look is if that expandability is really what you want or need... 16 outputs with up to 12 more, I think? or different configurations... if they've even gotten those expansion cards available yet?

Dirac Live is a plus for room correction, even if you only use it for bass management.

How many channels do you envision using? Are you thinking 7.x.4? More? or multi zone?

All that said, for me, match up feature set with what you need. TV/HDMI/HDR/Dolby Vision/imax... etc. Admittedly, I kinda like using the AVR with preouts for my main 5 channels, then as I set up Atmos, running those rears and.4 off the on-board amp. Ample power there for that usage.

And for preout voltage, unless its a drastic difference, I don't think you need to worry. And for Emotiva, I think I still have some trust issues. They seem to have happy customers, yet I've also heard chatter about quick product turnover and slow turnaround on orders. Not intending to talk you away... just overly cautious by nature when it comes to spending that kinda money.

Cheers!

 

[lovinthehd]

Why the concern over power you're probably not even using? Or do you think you're lacking something there in terms of actual performance? While I can't guarantee it am pretty sure your Onkyo has sufficient pre-out voltage for your amp's sensitivity. As Ryan said, if a bunch of other features you want also are in another unit, then that might be a consideration for changing pre-amp, but for your current fear of "wasting power", no. It would be nice if pre-amp output voltage specs would be more comprehensive (and more often tested in bench tests, glad Audioholics has done so in some of theirs, tho).

I have an older Onkyo avr that has no problem on pre-outs to achieve clipping on a few 1.4V sensitivity amps fwiw, nor two Denon avrs with the same amps.

@PENG for some additional input or perhaps even some math on how small differences play out.

 

[PENG]

Hi new to the forum. I can't say enough on how all the audioholics vidoes on youtube have really helped me understand the right directions to take with my HT setup. I am in the middle of building a new home and purchasing this new HT setup.

I've researched a lot on voltage output of AVR's and Amps. I've read the article on this site as well on it and think I understand some of it. My question is am I fine with my Onkyo AVR and Emotiva amps? From what I take on it most people say that even though onkyo says it outputs 1.0v its actually much higher and to not worry about it as it will be ok with the 1.5v on the Emotiva XPA/DR amps.

Is this correct? Or is my Onkyo not a good fit for the Emotiva amps. I've considered selling the RZ3100 and just buying the Emotiva RMC-1. Reason being having this cloud of voltage question over my head is driving me nuts that I could be wasting power on my emotiva amps.

Pre out specs from onkyo
Rated RCA Output Level and Impedance 1.0 V/330 Ohms (Pre Out)
1.0 V/330 Ohms (Subwoofer Pre Out)
200 mV/1.2 k-ohms (Zone Out)
2.0 V/1.2 k-ohms (Zone Pre Out)

Thank you for any insight anyone can provide!


HT Specs ** is what I own today
**Onkyo RZ3100 just powering atmos speakers
**Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 1 will be powering Surrounds
Emotiva XPA-DR3 Towers and Center

**Klipsch RF7-iii Towers
Klipsch RC64 iii Center
Klipsch RP502 Surround
Klipsch RP5000 Rears
**Klipsch CDT-5800ii 4
Klipsch Either the 15's or SPL12s haven't decided yet

Since I was volunteered to response (appreciated),so let me offer my 0.0002 cents.

From what I take on it most people say that even though onkyo says it outputs 1.0v its actually much higher and to not worry about it as it will be ok with the 1.5v on the Emotiva XPA/DR amps.
Is this correct?

I bet, with confidence, that it is correct. From the schematic diagrams I saw no indication that the maximum pre out voltage would be limited to 1 V. My guess is that they specified 1 V because that's the input voltage for the AVR to output the rated 140 W into an 8 ohm load at the specified distortion level.

I've considered selling the RZ3100 and just buying the Emotiva RMC-1. Reason being having this cloud of voltage question over my head is driving me nuts that I could be wasting power on my emotiva amps.

I agree with @lovinthehd, why worry about it unless you are seeing/hearing signs that indicate "wasting power..."? The extra power reserve you have now will most likely just be there but not used at all.

You XPA-5 gen1 has a very high gain of 32 dB so it needs about 1.0V for it to reach it's rated 200 W/8 ohms output.

The XPA-DR3 has a gain of 29 dB, that is typical and should only need about 2.15 V input to reach it's rated output of 450 W into 8 ohms.

The Onkyo should have no trouble reaching 2.0V unclipped, that's my educated guess. Even the much lower end Denon AVR-X3300W was able to produce higher than 2 V (4.5 Vrms unclipped) on the Audioholics.com test bench. After browsing the service manual, I expect the RZ3100 to do equal or better.

The RZ3100 has excellent audio specs, in line with or even better in some ways than D&M's flag ship AVR and prepros. The RMC obviously should have even more impressive specs, but it is not worth spending any more than $3K on processors that bound to get outdated within 3-5 years? If you keep the Onkyo cool, it should at least last that long, then you may be ready to upgrade/update again anyway.

Given the speakers you have, that are very efficient, it may make more practical sense to sell the Emo amps and pick up a low cost Outlaw, Monolith to drive the LCR channels. I do not believe fully differential power amps (with doubling a lot of the parts) would make any audible difference for most home use applications. Also, based on the "you get what you pay for", I doubt the DR3, or even the much more expensive ATI differential/so called fully balanced amps are worth owning, but that's 100% just my opinion, many will disagree.

 

[ryan44]

Peng, thank you for the reply. You gave me a lot to think about. I did find on a few forums that *most* ppl that have the RF7's did not hear much of a difference from the XPA to the DR. I got the emotiva used for about $550. Maybe I will just wait it out and try to pick up a XPA2 or 3 for about the same price and call it good.