Yamaha AS801, Yamaha RN803 or Outlaw RR2160

[LPJR]

Hi All. I am new to this board, but I really appreciate everyone's time/guidance.

I'm considering upgrading my AVR to 2 channel audio (i currently have an yamaha RX-A770). I am debating a Yamaha AS801 Integrated Amp, Yamaha RN803 network receiver or the outlaw RR2160. Does anyone have experience with these amps/receivers? I have monitor audio bronze 6 speaker towers? I mainly listen to CD's and sometimes FM - and every once in awhile stream. I know if I go with the AS801, I will have to purchase a tuner (which I can likely find used). Will I be sacrificing much in SQ if I go with a stereo receiver vs. integrated amp. I also like to listen to music at low volumes at night (if that makes a difference).

Without opening a can of worms- will either of these amps be a considerable upgrade over my existing Yamaha AVR? And what would you recommend for my circumstances? Unfortunately, demo'ing the equipment is really difficult. I really appreciate any guidance.

 

[Swerd]

Will I be sacrificing much in SQ if I go with a stereo receiver vs. integrated amp. I also like to listen to music at low volumes at night (if that makes a difference).

Without opening a can of worms- will either of these amps be a considerable upgrade over my existing Yamaha AVR? And what would you recommend for my circumstances?

All four of these have quite similar performance in their amplifier sections:

Yamaha RX-A770 – 95 wpc (2 channels driven, at 8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.06% THD)
Yamaha A-S801 – 100 wpc (2 channels driven, at 8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.02% THD)
Yamaha R-N803 – 100 wpc (2 channels driven, at 8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.02% THD)
Outlaw RR2160 – 110 wpc (2 channels driven, at 8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% THD)

The differences between 95-110 watts per channel and total harmonic distortion of 0.02-0.06% are negligible and will not be audible, especially when listening at low volume.

None of those stereo amp/receivers should produce significantly different sound quality compared to your RX-A770. I'd keep it.

 

[everettT]

Upgrades in sound quality involve speakers and room treatments primarily

 

[LPJR]

Thank you. I recently purchased the Monitor Audio Bronze 6's - which did represent a nice upgrade for me. And I noticed the difference. Many have told me that a dedicated 2 channel/amp will bring out the best in the speakers and music. I guess that is a whole other debate...

Since I plan (assuming I upgrade) to use both the AVR and Stereo receiver/Amp in my set-up driving the same pair of speakers, I would need to get an A/B speaker selector switch. In other words, my set-up will not look as "clean" as I have it now. So, if I buy a new piece of gear, really want for it to represent an upgrade.

 

[Swerd]

I recently purchased the Monitor Audio Bronze 6's - which did represent a nice upgrade for me. And I noticed the difference. Many have told me that a dedicated 2 channel/amp will bring out the best in the speakers and music. I guess that is a whole other debate...

I agree with everettT, you'll notice a difference, sometimes a major difference, in sound quality when you buy better speakers. Not so much with different electronics, including dedicated 2 channel vs. AVR. If the rated power of the amplifier sections are similar, I wouldn't consider it much of a debate at all.

Since I plan (assuming I upgrade) to use both the AVR and Stereo receiver/Amp in my set-up driving the same pair of speakers, I would need to get an A/B speaker selector switch. In other words, my set-up will not look as "clean" as I have it now.

If you plan to listen to both multi-channel and 2-channel audio with the same speakers, I would say definitely stick with your present AVR. It readily allows you to switch back and forth between those listening methods. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT use an A/B speaker selector switch so you can use one set of speakers with two different receivers or amps. It can very easily damage one or both of your receivers.

If you find yourself wanting to spend more money on improved sound quality, and you occasionally listen to FM radio, look into finding a better performing antenna.

 

[lovinthehd]

Agree with what has been said, nothing wrong with your avr for 2ch use, they're quite good at that as well as multich use. Think of the avr as an integrated amp with more features than most integrated amps have. Demoing the difference between your avr and other electronics is difficult to setup and not likely done well in a store setting.

 

[LPJR]

Thanks all. Given the feedback, there seems to be a real bias regarding use of AVR's in a 2 channel set up. I guess that is nothing really new (based on what I read- this is a frequently debated topic)... I understand the point about it mattering more given speaker quality, etc.

And yes, demoing is difficult in a store setting- especially since most of the listening/audio rooms in the stores by me (NYC) are dedicated to super high end/expensive components/systems. Buying new gear is almost a blind purchase it seems.

 

[lovinthehd]

I wouldn't call it a bias, more a practical point of view vs one about buying new electronics If you really want a new amp then get one, demoing one won't tell you a lot in a store....

 

[Swerd]

Thanks all. Given the feedback, there seems to be a real bias regarding use of AVR's in a 2 channel set up. I guess that is nothing really new (based on what I read- this is a frequently debated topic)... I understand the point about it mattering more given speaker quality, etc.

The fact that something is frequently debated tells you nothing about whether it's true or not – especially in audio. Over the years, I've heard many great sounding systems with great speakers and very average electronics. I've never heard the opposite, great sound coming from average speakers driven by great, or very expensive, electronics.

As long as an amplifier (or amplifier section of a receiver) has enough juice to drive a given pair of speakers, without going into clipping, the amp is good enough to get the job done. Spending more money than needed accomplishes little other than spending more money. All the other electronics in the audio path, sound sources, DACs, pre-amps differ very little in a system's overall sound quality.

And yes, demoing is difficult in a store setting- especially since most of the listening/audio rooms in the stores by me (NYC) are dedicated to super high end/expensive components/systems. Buying new gear is almost a blind purchase it seems.

Welcome to the 21st century .

By any chance, did you first learn about the (supposed) superior sound quality of 2-channel systems from one of those stores dedicated to super high end systems with super expensive components? They're in the business of selling more stuff.

 

[LPJR]

Lol, nope! I learned it from these crazy forums... I spend too much time online maybe..

 

[lovinthehd]

From this particular forum?

 

[Swerd]

Lol, nope! I learned it from these crazy forums... I spend too much time online maybe..

I hope it wasn't here. In that case, welcome to Audioholics .

If we do anything well here, it would be dispelling myths commonly repeated about what makes for good audio sound. It could be said that our dogma is that good audio sound comes directly from good speakers – that speakers are where the rubber hits the road.

Next comes the quality of the original recording and mastering process. We can choose which recording we might listen to or buy, but changing the recording quality is out of our hands.

After that, all else matters much much less, if it matters at all.

 

[LPJR]

Thank you! Yes, I have heard that before about speakers being the most important factor.

I suppose if I am curious enough, I can always buy an integrated amp, demo it in my apt, and return it if it doesn't improve the listening experience.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Many have told me that a dedicated 2 channel/amp will bring out the best in the speakers and music. I guess that is a whole other debate...

It depends on your preference.

AVR and Pre-pros can sound AT LEAST as good as "dedicated" 2Ch/amp.

Many people believe that AVR and Pre-pros can actually sound BETTER than 2Ch/amp.

It depends on your personal preference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you! Yes, I have heard that before about speakers being the most important factor.

I suppose if I am curious enough, I can always buy an integrated amp, demo it in my apt, and return it if it doesn't improve the listening experience.

Your room (including speaker positioning and general acoustics) is far more important than the electronics, ranks right up there with the speakers themselves. If you do demo electronics do yourself the favor of arranging a blind level-matched demo, sighted demos are fraught with expectation bias and slight differences in level can lead you astray.

 

[davidscott]

The Outlaw does have HD radio and internet radio as well as an ability to run 4 ohm speakers. Just food for thought.

 

[ski2xblack]

I also like to listen to music at low volumes at night (if that makes a difference).

Since you specifically mentioned modest listening levels, you should probably be employing some sort of equal loudness equalization, and, should you decide to try other kit, comparing the contender's loudness eq capability. Your AVR presumably has 'YPAO Volume', and I believe the yamaha stereo pieces each have the old-school variable loudness knob. The Outlaw lacks anything of the sort, so probably wouldn't be the best choice for your specific needs.

 

[PENG]

Thanks all. Given the feedback, there seems to be a real bias regarding use of AVR's in a 2 channel set up. I guess that is nothing really new (based on what I read- this is a frequently debated topic)... I understand the point about it mattering more given speaker quality, etc.

And yes, demoing is difficult in a store setting- especially since most of the listening/audio rooms in the stores by me (NYC) are dedicated to super high end/expensive components/systems. Buying new gear is almost a blind purchase it seems.

There is no debate (unbiased) if based on value and sound quality only, a $599 one year outdated Denon AVR is better than any of the ones your listed.

 

[LPJR]

Since you specifically mentioned modest listening levels, you should probably be employing some sort of equal loudness equalization, and, should you decide to try other kit, comparing the contender's loudness eq capability. Your AVR presumably has 'YPAO Volume', and I believe the yamaha stereo pieces each have the old-school variable loudness knob. The Outlaw lacks anything of the sort, so probably wouldn't be the best choice for your specific needs.

I use the YPAO room correction software for my AVR. Yamaha's network receiver (RN803) has YPAO room correction and variable loudness, and the AS801 has the variable loudness - which I thought would be useful. I may demo the RN803 or AS801 in my setup and see if there is a notable sound improvement. I guess it's FOMO- but sometimes music sounds a little flat in my current set up. Admittedly, a lot of it may have to do with the quality of the recording, mastering/re-mastering. Some recordings sound great, others sound lifeless.

 

[lovinthehd]

I use the YPAO room correction software for my AVR. Yamaha's network receiver (RN803) has YPAO room correction and variable loudness, and the AS801 has the variable loudness - which I thought would be useful. I may demo the RN803 or AS801 in my setup and see if there is a notable sound improvement. I guess it's FOMO- but sometimes music sounds a little flat in my current set up. Admittedly, a lot of it may have to do with the quality of the recording, mastering/re-mastering. Some recordings sound great, others sound lifeless.

Shouldn't you ascertain the quality of the recordings before buying gear trying to make lesser ones sound better?