Audyssey multi EQ app help

[Kyle Braunlich]

I was wondering what the best settings were, or what are the best things to try to adjust. Things like the curve editor, what frequencies should I try changing on each speaker and midrange compensation.
Any setting advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Kyle Braunlich

 

[ryanosaur]

I only just played with mine for the first time... got decent results, honestly. Kind of surprised me.

I don't know what you got going on in your scene, but what I would recommend to begin with:
Confirm your distances... don't change them, but be aware of what audyssey did. The distance is a delay adjustment so the sound waves from each speaker arrive at your ear at the same time. It is common as I understand it for the subwoofer to be set at a much greater distance from you than it is (because of DSP processing in the sub).
Confirm your speaker sizes and XO settings... you might need or want to readjust those.
Check your subwoofer sound... Audyssey set my subs HOT! Once I was done, I re-tuned them by ear. Upright bass in a small jazz setting shouldn't vibrate your @$$.
The Curve: First, I am not an acoustics expert, though I have had some schooling... so take this with a grain of salt, and remember, YMMV. I knew I had an issue in my room being a little bright and lively... yet I have very neutral speakers. Sure enough, Audyssey took a chunk out right around 2KHz. Which was fine, but a little too much, so I lifted that dip a bit, not fully, and smoothed out the resulting curve changes with a slight bump to the bottom end. Nothing big, just a gentle increase in the lows, without extending anything. It is possible to do harm, as I understand. I just gave my bass from about 150Hz down maybe a 2dB boost, but brought it back to match the rolloff starting about -3dB at ~50-60Hz.
Then I listened with Audyssey, and switched out to Pure mode... and back and forth just to compare.

Biggest thing I can say, USE YOUR EARS. If you don't like it, scrap it and try again. If it is consistently making weird choices, you might need to explore other solutions.

To get some better help, you should post up info about your rig, room and listening dimensions, maybe a photo or two. The more info you give us, the better we might be able to help out!

Cheers

Oh, and don't forget that you have to send your app changes to the receiver. It does not happen automatically.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think this is the major thread on the subject here so far https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/audyssey-editor-app-with-screenshots.107579/

I'd love to play with the app but my Denon is older and doesn't accommodate the app.

 

[ryanosaur]

I think this is the major thread on the subject here so far https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/audyssey-editor-app-with-screenshots.107579/

I'd love to play with the app but my Denon is older and doesn't accommodate the app.

Cool! I didn't know there was a thread for that... shoulda figured!

Ya, I'm really surprised at how well it adjusted for me. Still futzing around, and need to redo it now that I have my room finalized, maybe later this week.

Cheers, Lovin!

 

[lovinthehd]

Cool! I didn't know there was a thread for that... shoulda figured!

Ya, I'm really surprised at how well it adjusted for me. Still futzing around, and need to redo it now that I have my room finalized, maybe later this week.

Cheers, Lovin!

It might be especially useful to you as IIRC you have the same avr as Pogre used....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I only just played with mine for the first time... got decent results, honestly. Kind of surprised me.

I don't know what you got going on in your scene, but what I would recommend to begin with:
Confirm your distances... don't change them, but be aware of what audyssey did. The distance is a delay adjustment so the sound waves from each speaker arrive at your ear at the same time. It is common as I understand it for the subwoofer to be set at a much greater distance from you than it is (because of DSP processing in the sub).
Confirm your speaker sizes and XO settings... you might need or want to readjust those.
Check your subwoofer sound... Audyssey set my subs HOT! Once I was done, I re-tuned them by ear. Upright bass in a small jazz setting shouldn't vibrate your @$$.
The Curve: First, I am not an acoustics expert, though I have had some schooling... so take this with a grain of salt, and remember, YMMV. I knew I had an issue in my room being a little bright and lively... yet I have very neutral speakers. Sure enough, Audyssey took a chunk out right around 2KHz. Which was fine, but a little too much, so I lifted that dip a bit, not fully, and smoothed out the resulting curve changes with a slight bump to the bottom end. Nothing big, just a gentle increase in the lows, without extending anything. It is possible to do harm, as I understand. I just gave my bass from about 150Hz down maybe a 2dB boost, but brought it back to match the rolloff starting about -3dB at ~50-60Hz.
Then I listened with Audyssey, and switched out to Pure mode... and back and forth just to compare.

Biggest thing I can say, USE YOUR EARS. If you don't like it, scrap it and try again. If it is consistently making weird choices, you might need to explore other solutions.

To get some better help, you should post up info about your rig, room and listening dimensions, maybe a photo or two. The more info you give us, the better we might be able to help out!

Cheers

Oh, and don't forget that you have to send your app changes to the receiver. It does not happen automatically.

Great post. Just curious, when you said the subs were hot after audyssey did you turn off dynamic eq? I’ve never loved dynamic eq but do use it once in awhile. I can see why it might not work in your space. Especially with upright bass.

 

[ryanosaur]

Great post. Just curious, when you said the subs were hot after audyssey did you turn off dynamic eq? I’ve never loved dynamic eq but do use it once in awhile. I can see why it might not work in your space. Especially with upright bass.

No, DEQ is still on. The other two settings are off, though.

Should I kill DEQ? Just reading Pogre's thread Lovin' linked to earlier. About halfway through. It's coming up a lot there, too.

 

[lovinthehd]

Great post. Just curious, when you said the subs were hot after audyssey did you turn off dynamic eq? I’ve never loved dynamic eq but do use it once in awhile. I can see why it might not work in your space. Especially with upright bass.

Yes, would like to know more about this "hotness" with particular setup details (what target dB did you start with in running Audyssey, what kind of trim level set, what did you change, etc) Could just be a preference thing or that some implementations of Audyssey not only turn on Audyssey DynamicEQ but also Dynamic Volume (the latter I'd turn off). If you are using DynamicEQ for music, are you adjusting it with the Reference Level Offset recommended?

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes, would like to know more about this "hotness" with particular setup details (what target dB did you start with in running Audyssey, what kind of trim level set, what did you change, etc) Could just be a preference thing or that some implementations of Audyssey not only turn on Audyssey DynamicEQ but also Dynamic Volume (the latter I'd turn off). If you are using DynamicEQ for music, are you adjusting it with the Reference Level Offset recommended?

OK...
Noted for my next Audyssey test... Turn DEQ off. (Dynamic Volume and LFC are both off.)
Since this was just an experiment, I didn't really take notes. I had tuned them by ear to blend pretty well... in starting up Audyssey, I had to readjust my gain on the subs to~73db, somewhere between 1/3-1/2 gain instead of the 1/4-1/3 I had before. I did have the subs trimmed -3db in the AVR, too.
After running Audyssey, it set the sub trim lower, but maybe because of the DEQ, they were louder... like I said, Double Bass was vibrating my @$$.
I do have it set on reference, not flat. not really certain the difference yet.
Anyway, after using the Aud-App, I manually adjust the gain to -18dB (less than 1/4 now),and the AVR is trimmed -8.5dB! And when I look at the Speaker/Levels page, they are also trimmed down there with Sub1 -6dB, and Sub2 -4.5dB.
Would love to hear your guys thoughts!
When I do rerun audyssey, I'm going to reset everything across the board and start from scratch. No sub trim or anything. I will take notes then!

And now that I know what the midrange correction is, gonna turn that off too!

 

[lovinthehd]

OK...
Noted for my next Audyssey test... Turn DEQ off. (Dynamic Volume and LFC are both off.)
Since this was just an experiment, I didn't really take notes. I had tuned them by ear to blend pretty well... in starting up Audyssey, I had to readjust my gain on the subs to~73db, somewhere between 1/3-1/2 gain instead of the 1/4-1/3 I had before. I did have the subs trimmed -3db in the AVR, too.
After running Audyssey, it set the sub trim lower, but maybe because of the DEQ, they were louder... like I said, Double Bass was vibrating my @$$.
I do have it set on reference, not flat. not really certain the difference yet.
Anyway, after using the Aud-App, I manually adjust the gain to -18dB (less than 1/4 now),and the AVR is trimmed -8.5dB! And when I look at the Speaker/Levels page, they are also trimmed down there with Sub1 -6dB, and Sub2 -4.5dB.
Would love to hear your guys thoughts!
When I do rerun audyssey, I'm going to reset everything across the board and start from scratch. No sub trim or anything. I will take notes then!

And now that I know what the midrange correction is, gonna turn that off too!

All the trim level in the avr set by Audyssey is a reflection of the gain setting on your sub really, so if running Audyssey set sub trim lower that meant gain was a bit higher on the sub. Doesn't matter what trim level pre-Audyssey, it will reset. Were you running the LFE+Main for double bass? The Reference Level Offset is not the choice of Reference/Movie vs Flat/Music curves available, it's a specific adjustment for DynamicEQ....here https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level. Stock setting is for movies, not music.

 

[ryanosaur]

Cool, thanks! Love your sharing!!!!
Like I said, this is really just an experiment. A pleasant one thus far, though not without some twists.
The real fun comes when I can get a umic and rew running on my iMac. If I really choose the need to pursue a deeper dive, I might go the path of one of the mdsp/Dirac products for managing my front 5 and subs for more of the Geddes type system of bass management... but that won't be until the 3's arrive.

 

[lovinthehd]

Cool, thanks! Love your sharing!!!!
Like I said, this is really just an experiment. A pleasant one thus far, though not without some twists.
The real fun comes when I can get a umic and rew running on my iMac. If I really choose the need to pursue a deeper dive, I might go the path of one of the mdsp/Dirac products for managing my front 5 and subs for more of the Geddes type system of bass management... but that won't be until the 3's arrive.

So much fun lying in wait for ya!

 

[ryanosaur]

So much fun lying in wait for ya!

And if you thought I was hopeless/hapless now...

 

[lovinthehd]

And if you thought I was hopeless/hapless now...

I say keep it fun, find a nice listenable set of settings for what your choices might be and do more listening than fussing But ya gotta scratch the itch, too.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sort of forgetting about the OP. Even though I cant use the app, I've read a fair amount about it and always would even before deciding to buy it or not. What I find the forums and FB groups handy for (there's a specific Audyssey FB page for example) is to listen to experiences and others' questions and the various responses. Read the manuals. Follow setup guidelines for Audyssey rather than wing it, that sort of thing. Hard to simply provide you a set of settings to run with in any case for your particular setup/room.

 

[PENG]

Cool, thanks! Love your sharing!!!!
Like I said, this is really just an experiment. A pleasant one thus far, though not without some twists.
The real fun comes when I can get a umic and rew running on my iMac. If I really choose the need to pursue a deeper dive, I might go the path of one of the mdsp/Dirac products for managing my front 5 and subs for more of the Geddes type system of bass management... but that won't be until the 3's arrive.

As soon as you get that mic, run REW and you will understand why I have been saying Audyssey works, but many just don't like the flattened/more accurate bass in-room response. Also, something I mentioned multiple times before, Audyssey does not (in my experience) always pick the crossover points for the flattest response when both the L,R and the subs are playing together (aka integrating), so you need to try different XOs yourself and re-plot REW to see which one works best on paper. I bet you will get the best result on paper with XO set to 80, 90 or even 100.

I did try the minidsp/REW generated filters, and found that while it improved things, it was nowhere near as effective as Audysssy. REW generated filters are just PEQs, so I guess the results were expected.

 

[KEW]

OK...
Noted for my next Audyssey test... Turn DEQ off. (Dynamic Volume and LFC are both off.)

Just a detail, but to keep your conceptual model of Audyssey straight, turning off DEQ will not change anything when you run Audyssey. Audyssey runs without it (regardless of the manual setting) and then it gets applied (or not) afterwards.

On the sub being too heavy, I usually set mine about 2 dB below Audyssey's setting. I don't feel so much that Audyssey got it wrong; on many tacks it sound great. Rather, there are too many recordings where the bass runs too hot, and that can really ruin a recording/song, so I find about 2dB down makes for a good compromise!
My best understanding is most recording engineers have a subwoofer in the room, but they do most of their mixing without it (so they can better hear and focus all of the detail in the mid-range and highs),then they have a switch (some pro-audio subs come with a foot switch) to check the bass. I don't know what lengths they go to to attempt to eliminate room effects, so I think that is part of the justification not to have so much bass while mixing (of course it also depends on what type of music is being recorded). It could also be a matter of wanting rich bass and figuring the target market is people who have less than dual X13's!

It'd be great if someone with actual pro-audio recording experience could comment on this as I am mostly SWAG'ing (Scientific Wild-Assed Guess) it!

Here is an example of an otherwise well done recording (I won't speak to what YouTube might have done to it) with hot (upright) bass:

 

[snakeeyes]

Just a detail, but to keep your conceptual model of Audyssey straight, turning off DEQ will not change anything when you run Audyssey. Audyssey runs without it (regardless of the manual setting) and then it gets applied (or not) afterwards.

On the sub being too heavy, I usually set mine about 2 dB below Audyssey's setting. I don't feel so much that Audyssey got it wrong; on many tacks it sound great. Rather, there are too many recordings where the bass runs too hot, and that can really ruin a recording/song, so I find about 2dB down makes for a good compromise!
My best understanding is most recording engineers have a subwoofer in the room, but they do most of their mixing without it (so they can better hear and focus all of the detail in the mid-range and highs),then they have a switch (some pro-audio subs come with a foot switch) to check the bass. I don't know what lengths they go to to attempt to eliminate room effects, so I think that is part of the justification not to have so much bass while mixing (of course it also depends on what type of music is being recorded). It could also be a matter of wanting rich bass and figuring the target market is people who have less than dual X13's!

It'd be great if someone with actual pro-audio recording experience could comment on this as I am mostly SWAG'ing (Scientific Wild-Assed Guess) it!

Here is an example of an otherwise well done recording (I won't speak to what YouTube might have done to it) with hot (upright) bass:

I think that song got overplayed to the point nobody wanted to hear it again but I really liked this version of the song.

 

[KEW]

I think that song got overplayed to the point nobody wanted to hear it again but I really liked this version of the song.

I totally agree on both points.
I really like "unplugged" versions because the vocal performance is much more exposed and I think it presses the singer to step up their game!