5.2 AVR

[Old Onkyo]

Thinking about upgrading my AVR, I currently have an Onkyo Integra 6.5.
I have read enough here to be confused. I see a lot of receivers that are up to 13.2 configurable.
I have a 4K television and I only want at most 5.2.
No atmos or anything. Any recommendations, or has that ship sailed?

 

[PENG]

or has that ship sailed?

Pretty much..

I highly recommend the following (the first 2 can process 11 channels and have 9 internal amplifier channels).

For only $1399
http://www.iq-av.com/search/RX-A3070BL

or the Denon AVR-X4400H for $899,

or the Denon AVR-X3400H for $599. Even this lowest price unit offers 7 channels with 2 subwoofer outputs and Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT.

Yamaha AVRs may be more reliable based on historic data, as often cited by member M Code.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Pretty much..

I highly recommend the following (the first 2 can process 11 channels and have 9 internal amplifier channels).

For only $1399
http://www.iq-av.com/search/RX-A3070BL

or the Denon AVR-X4400H for $899,

or the Denon AVR-X3400H for $599. Even this lowest price unit offers 7 channels with 2 subwoofer outputs and Audyssey XT32/SubEQHT.

Yamaha AVRs may be more reliable based on historic data, as often cited by member M Code.

Thanks PENG, How can I get the most out of these rigs using 5.2 setup? Are the extra amps wasted?

 

[PENG]

Thanks PENG, How can I get the most out of these rigs using 5.2 setup? Are the extra amps wasted?

You can add two height or ceiling speakers, you may like the effects. Or you can use the unused amps for zone 2, or to bi-amp the left/right. Some claimed the passive biamp benefits are audible, others think the additional wires required is a waste of money because any minute theoretical sound quality improvements are most likely not audible.

I can tell you one thing, that is, I compared the AVR-X3400H side by side with my separates that cost a lot more, and it sounded just as good driving the same speakers. To me it was a little surprising, though not totally unexpected.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks PENG, How can I get the most out of these rigs using 5.2 setup? Are the extra amps wasted?

Not really wasted just not used (and the amps in use don't have to share the power supply so that's a bit of a benefit). Not many 5ch avrs out there in any case.

 

[Paul DS]

You can buy an excellent 5.2 receiver on Amazon for under $500.00. Shouldn't be much of a problem to pick out the brand you like. Just about all receivers these days are loaded with features. As a very basic rule of thumb, try to make sure the receiver has at least 100 watts/channel.

 

[snakeeyes]

I would even go 90w minimum if only 5 ch. But I agree with 100w min if 7ch.

 

[KenM10759]

Not all watts are created equal. My NAD T758v3 is "FTC rated 110 watts per channel" with 2 driven. Then NAD gives a true rating of 60 watts per channel with all (7) channels driven.

I assure you, it can driver me right out if the room without even getting to -10dB on the volume scale.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Not all watts are created equal. My NAD T758v3 is "FTC rated 110 watts per channel" with 2 driven. Then NAD gives a true rating of 60 watts per channel with all (7) channels driven.

I assure you, it can driver me right out if the room without even getting to -10dB on the volume scale.

So if all watts are not created equal, how can I know the difference?

 

[ryanosaur]

So if all watts are not created equal, how can I know the difference?

A watt is a watt... you have to look between the lines of the marketing brochure, though... 'cos 110WPC looks more impressive. My Marantz is the same: 110wpc rms... 2 channels driven. Its estimated that with 7+ channel running, I'm maybe getting 70wpc. Some specs even "show boat" by giving you what only a single channel will produce if nothing else is connected... Listen to much in Mono these days?

If you're not familiar with it, this is a cool tool to help you out: Peak SPL Calculator

It's also helpful to keep in mind that you have to double your power output for every 3dB increase in SPL.
So say you have my 85dB sensitivity speakers:
1w=85dB (@ 1M)
2w=88dB
4w=91dB
...and so forth.

Or, say you have some crazy Klipsch or Tekton Speakers... assuming they are accurate measurements.
1w=98dB
2w=101dB
4w=104dB
8w=107dB... which clears Movie Theater Reference Level peaks.

Mind, Normal conversation is ~60dB, and a rock concert is ~120dB. Threshold for hearing damage is ~85dB, and threshold of pain is ~120-140.

I would say, compare what you want to buy, to what you have. And consider if you are going to upgrade your speakers. If you fall in love with a speaker that is low-efficiency, and notoriously power hungry, you would want much higher amplification. Conversely, speakers that are more efficient and say they only require a min of 20W RMS should run quite nicely on 50-70W.

Hope this helps!

 

[snakeeyes]

First you need to know what the specs are of all your speakers and at how many decibels you are wanting to listen at. Then an online calculator can tell you what you would need. However, a receiver might claim to be 100w at 8 ohms but that is a 2 channel measurement. You might need to search for a review to find what it would measure at with 5 channels driven (obviously a bit less than 100w, possibly 70w for example)

 

[lovinthehd]

So if all watts are not created equal, how can I know the difference?

Compare like measurements. NAD avrs haven't shown to test all that differently but their fans like to think they're somehow special. Look at the bench test and see how that works out like on the one Ken mentioned https://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-t758-v3-av-receiver-review-test-bench. Not particularly impressive.

 

[KenM10759]

They may not test differently, but that wasn't my point at all. I'm just trying to explain that claims from some manufacturers are wildly optimistic, and for that I can point right at the big colorful sticker on a lot of common AVR's that will claim something like "575 total watts!" from a 5.1 channel AVR that can't possibly do that.

At least NAD's claim of true power is validated.

 

[PENG]

I do think NAD's power output specs are typically more detailed than D&M, Onkyo, Yamaha and others. Their bench confirmed output power into 8/4 ohms also typically showed poorer watts/$, for both 8 and 4 ohms.

They do generally have higher IHF power ratings that are based on the ratio between the maximum power the amplifier can put out for a burst just 20ms long, and the continuous power. So in that sense, their 100 W could be a little more dynamic than say D&M's 100 W, depending on the media contents, obviously, and ymmv..

 

[lovinthehd]

My major complaint is the simplified NAD watts are not created equal. Any differences in ratings are in the measurement parameters as well as stated specs (and advertised specs where someone added up all the channels is obviously bogus)....but can be difficult to compare different measurements of course. I also think the NAD amp reputation came from their old days rather than their current avr offerings which seem far more similar to the major brands.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Where can I find the actual power ratings of receivers and amps? I just got off the phone with Onkyo and the representative was adamant that the Integra 6.5 delivered 100 wow to all 7 channels with all channels driven. That is not what the brochure states.

 

[ryanosaur]

Where can I find the actual power ratings of receivers and amps? I just got off the phone with Onkyo and the representative was adamant that the Integra 6.5 delivered 100 wow to all 7 channels with all channels driven. That is not what the brochure states.

Heard the same from Marantz... but after some careful questioning: any 2 channels are capable of delivering that power, and they disguised it by saying all channels are capable of that 110w/ch (as it was in my case).

 

[PENG]

If you want to get a credible answer on any technical questions, you have to get pass their level one reps.

By the way, for real world use, an AVR that can do 130 W 2 channel driven, 70 W 7 channel driven, may be better than one that can do 100 W 2 channel driven and 90 W and 7 channel driven. It really is moot point, 10-30 W difference is not significant.

 

[Verdinut]

Not all watts are created equal. My NAD T758v3 is "FTC rated 110 watts per channel" with 2 driven. Then NAD gives a true rating of 60 watts per channel with all (7) channels driven.

I assure you, it can driver me right out if the room without even getting to -10dB on the volume scale.

IMO, most Denon and Marantz AVRs can outperform your NAD percentagewise with all channels driven.

 

[lovinthehd]

Where can I find the actual power ratings of receivers and amps? I just got off the phone with Onkyo and the representative was adamant that the Integra 6.5 delivered 100 wow to all 7 channels with all channels driven. That is not what the brochure states.

Best way is to search bench testing of the units that include that spec. You won't get it from the major home electronics makers....and phone customer service reps know very very little in general, especially on 15 year old units. The manual spec lists the 100wpc at 8 ohm for only 2 channels driven, and even 15 years ago I'd be surprised it could do that ACD.