Tube Amp VS Solid State amp difference audible??

[lovinthehd]

Wow, that’s quite a reaction to a post that’s a year and a half old. I think most of what he said was commonly accepted knowledge. Since it was brought up though I am curious if anyone can provide additional information about the last part of the quote, pertaining to the lost data from the compression process? If it’s really stripped out of the data, how would a processor know what to add back?

I assume this is in reference to something like what I see in my Marantz AVR.
View attachment 27680

Your question about that compression restoration (called restorer on my Denon, music optimizer on my Onkyo) function I've always wondered about....might be worthy of its own thread? Always assumed it was another algorithm based on the original compression routines, providing content maybe the way an upmix provides surround from 2ch but....

 

[Hobbit]

As a guitar player, all I can say on the subject is there was a disdain for SS amps. However, that is changing fast. I tend to play my Fender Mustang modeler more than my Mesa Boogie. Many bands are using straight to mixer preamp/effect processors on the road. Or a hybrid setup with a small cab behind them to make it sound right when you're on the stage. T

Point being, if tube amps sounded better, they would make a SS amp mimic one. The technology is there. The question would be which one? Unlike SS which I believe are virtually indistinguishable, tube amps and tubes aren't. I've noticed clear differences in sound changing tubes on my guitar amps. I've gone as far as changing tubes until I find the one I like best. Maybe one day they'll add a tube amp effect to AVRs sound mode; jazz, hall, acoustic, tube

 

[lovinthehd]

As a guitar player, all I can say on the subject is there was a disdain for SS amps. However, that is changing fast. I tend to play my Fender Mustang modeler more than my Mesa Boogie. Many bands are using straight to mixer preamp/effect processors on the road. Or a hybrid setup with a small cab behind them to make it sound right when you're on the stage. T

Point being, if tube amps sounded better, they would make a SS amp mimic one. The technology is there. The question would be which one? Unlike SS which I believe are virtually indistinguishable, tube amps and tubes aren't. I've noticed clear differences in sound changing tubes on my guitar amps. I've gone as far as changing tubes until I find the one I like best. Maybe one day they'll add a tube amp effect to AVRs sound mode; jazz, hall, acoustic, tube

I always said the tube/warmth/cold/neutral adjustment box would be a big seller This is always an interesting read regarding amp listening https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

 

[Hobbit]

I always said the tube/warmth/cold/neutral adjustment box would be a big seller This is always an interesting read regarding amp listening https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

The goto sound on my Fender Mustang amp for R&R is a Marshall JCM800. At a recent jam session, another guitar player kept staring at my amp and finally asked how come that Fender sounds like my Marshall? Fender calls it "British 80's" but there's no doubt to anyone the sound they were going for...

 

[lovinthehd]

Plus it's a whole 'nuther thing to use an amp on a guitar for production vs home amp in reproduction.

 

[TheWarrior]

Your entire statement is based on your opinion and not backed up by any facts. Frankly I find your remarks telling others what they will or will not hear not only arrogant but ignorant-priceless.

Hi!

I am a guitar player that also only uses a vacuum tube amp. The sound is different, and I prefer it. But that is sound production, not REproduction

When it comes to listening to vinyl, tubes just sound great!

Then you consider the incredibly inefficient waste of energy that vacuum tubes are, by modern standards, you realize a lot of that 'warmth' people love, is partially distortion! (does that really need a citation?)

So while I agree that vinyl and tubes can be absolutely enjoyable, I do not see where my arrogance stood to distort the facts!

 

[Bucknekked]

Hi!

I am a guitar player that also only uses a vacuum tube amp. The sound is different, and I prefer it. But that is sound production, not REproduction

When it comes to listening to vinyl, tubes just sound great!

Then you consider the incredibly inefficient waste of energy that vacuum tubes are, by modern standards, you realize a lot of that 'warmth' people love, is partially distortion! (does that really need a citation?)

So while I agree that vinyl and tubes can be absolutely enjoyable, I do not see where my arrogance stood to distort the facts!

TheWarrior
Over the years I've read a lot of your posts and haven't found you out corrupting innocent youth with tales of "warm tubes" in the middle of the night. Your posts are usually well thought out and you stay away from inflammatory rhetoric. I read your post about warm sound and found it to be a very middle of the road review of tube lore.

Far too many times on forums, this one does it too, people get their panties all in a wad and get caustic over the slightest provocation. I think you're in good shape ! Keep those good posts coming.

 

[Bucknekked]

As a guitar player, all I can say on the subject is there was a disdain for SS amps. However, that is changing fast. I tend to play my Fender Mustang modeler more than my Mesa Boogie. Many bands are using straight to mixer preamp/effect processors on the road. Or a hybrid setup with a small cab behind them to make it sound right when you're on the stage. T

Point being, if tube amps sounded better, they would make a SS amp mimic one. The technology is there. The question would be which one? Unlike SS which I believe are virtually indistinguishable, tube amps and tubes aren't. I've noticed clear differences in sound changing tubes on my guitar amps. I've gone as far as changing tubes until I find the one I like best. Maybe one day they'll add a tube amp effect to AVRs sound mode; jazz, hall, acoustic, tube

I am more of a guitar owner than player these days but i too have a Fender Mustang amp. I love it. It does indeed sound pretty extraordinary and even a rube like me can make it scream and shout.

Like many have also noted: there's a world of difference between using a tube amp for sound PRODUCTION verses one for sound RE-PRODUCTION. But even there, the gap with solid state digital products is narrowing and erasing the difference. I would never offer advice to a player on his amplification choices. Too much in the way of artistic license at play. But, as far as home reproduction is concerned, I think the market voted a long time ago and got it right. There will always be room for hobbyists to keep tubers running and I got no problem with that either. Room enough for every opinion and taste.

 

[Hobbit]

I am more of a guitar owner than player these days but i too have a Fender Mustang amp. I love it. It does indeed sound pretty extraordinary and even a rube like me can make it scream and shout.

Like many have also noted: there's a world of difference between using a tube amp for sound PRODUCTION verses one for sound RE-PRODUCTION. But even there, the gap with solid state digital products is narrowing and erasing the difference. I would never offer advice to a player on his amplification choices. Too much in the way of artistic license at play. But, as far as home reproduction is concerned, I think the market voted a long time ago and got it right. There will always be room for hobbyists to keep tubers running and I got no problem with that either. Room enough for every opinion and taste.

True, that's evolution. Originally guitar amps were made with what was available at the time. Mainly PA type tube amps. Then, of course, they evolved in an artistic way. No different from how that basic design evolved for music reproduction. For guitar amplification, at this point it has less to do with tube vs SS for me. It's about sound, size, and versatility. At one point I was a diehard tube guy. Lugged around a Super Reverb. I even used to build my own tube amps. Still love my MB and vintage tube Bronco.

The technology is there to make an SS modeler amp sound like various tube amps. Obviously, us guitarist love those tube amps so much they'll make a SS amp that can copy them! I'm sure if there was really a market someone would sell a SS audio amp that sounds like a tube audio amp. That would still be sacrilegious to some!

I'm kind of warming up to the idea of a tube sounding sound mode preset

 

[M Code]

Your question about that compression restoration (called restorer on my Denon, music optimizer on my Onkyo) function I've always wondered about....might be worthy of its own thread? Always assumed it was another algorithm based on the original compression routines, providing content maybe the way an upmix provides surround from 2ch but....

Somewhere in my archives I have the TI white paper on the MP3 Restore algorithm...
I recall..
that it basically worked by taking the lower frequencies and then generating higher frequency harmonics. On a scope U could see the improvement but the audible effect was very subtle..

Just my $0.02..