need advice on 2 channel

[nolaNSHORE]

Thanks all--glad to be here. and thanks for any help/insight

Have had a 2 channel system for a few years. Current set-up:

Tidal (highest quality) from my i-phone to Sonos--optical to Emotiva XDA-1 (DAC)--coaxial (i think) to XSP-1 Emotiva pre-amp--then to XPA-2 amp and then on to Golden Ear Triton Reference.

When the volume gets to about -20 dB on the xsp--starts sounding a little distorted--clarity is less--and just gets louder without improving soundstage. I've heard this about emotiva products.

SO I've been told that changing my pre-amp would make the difference--I looked at the Mcintosh c52--and have heard good things about the Anthem STR 2 channel pre-amp.

But should i change my DAC instead to a better quality one (Shiit or opppo)?? Or should I buy a better streaming device than Sonos?? or will any of it make a difference in comparison to what I have now??

Many thanks.

 

[3db]

Before getting into the component swapping game which will have you chasing your tail like a dog, why not try and trace the problem down. How loud is -20db in your environment? Have you measured its SPL at that level. Does this problem exist with a certain song or is it all songs? Have you tried streaming form another source other than your iphone?

 

[2channel lover]

Thanks all--glad to be here. and thanks for any help/insight

Have had a 2 channel system for a few years. Current set-up:

Tidal (highest quality) from my i-phone to Sonos--optical to Emotiva XDA-1 (DAC)--coaxial (i think) to XSP-1 Emotiva pre-amp--then to XPA-2 amp and then on to Golden Ear Triton Reference.

When the volume gets to about -20 dB on the xsp--starts sounding a little distorted--clarity is less--and just gets louder without improving soundstage. I've heard this about emotiva products.

SO I've been told that changing my pre-amp would make the difference--I looked at the Mcintosh c52--and have heard good things about the Anthem STR 2 channel pre-amp.

But should i change my DAC instead to a better quality one (Shiit or opppo)?? Or should I buy better streaming device than Sonos?? or will any of it make a difference in comparison to what I have now??

Many thanks.

Agree with post #2...invest in a SPL meter, not very expensive, and at least know how loud it actually is at -20dB.

Next...it sounds like this is your only source...if not, try a different source.

My gut tells me it's the source. I'm not sure what Sonos you have, but I would try to troubleshoot source and source player out of the equation before I bought another/pro.

 

[lovinthehd]

Doesn't sound like a pre-amp issue. Why should louder improve soundstage?

 

[nolaNSHORE]

Doesn't sound like a pre-amp issue. Why should louder improve soundstage?

Yeah--maybe it won't. But louder def equals "brighter/more disorted" on my all Emotiva system.

 

[nolaNSHORE]

Agree with post #2...invest in a SPL meter, not very expensive, and at least know how loud it actually is at -20dB.

Next...it sounds like this is your only source...if not, try a different source.

My gut tells me it's the source. I'm not sure what Sonos you have, but I would try to troubleshoot source and source player out of the equation before I bought another/pro.

Have the white Sonos connect. Similar issue with emotiva reference CD player. Sounds bright/distorted at louder dBs.

 

[nolaNSHORE]

Before getting into the component swapping game which will have you chasing your tail like a dog, why not try and trace the problem down. How loud is -20db in your environment? Have you measured its SPL at that level. Does this problem exist with a certain song or is it all songs? Have you tried streaming form another source other than your iphone?

Will look into an SPL meter.

Yes--on most songs. Even with a CD player as a source--emotive reference CD player.

Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah--maybe it won't. But louder def equals "brighter/more disorted" on my all Emotiva system.

It's not all Emotiva, could even be your speakers, source....but would be nice to know what your volume control reading translates to. Did you calibrate the volume somehow to the movie standards or ?

 

[2channel lover]

Have the white Sonos connect. Similar issue with emotiva reference CD player. Sounds bright/distorted at louder dBs.

Boy...has to be the pre/pro, amp, or maybe even the speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious, did you ask Emotiva about this?

 

[nolaNSHORE]

Curious, did you ask Emotiva about this?

I did ask Emotiva--it was a while back--they suggested some adjustments--which I made--but they're very hard to get in touch with over the phone.

I've read that Emotiva products are known for this--I had read about it previously on some Emotiva forums--or maybe even here--that this "distortion" is not uncommon when the volume goes up.

I'd be surprised if it were the speakers--I have a surround Def Techs in another room (Sandy gross also responsible for Golden Ear)--and I don't notice the same issue--not comparing apples to apples in this room to room scenario--bc the Def Techs are for movies, and very little music--and it uses a Sony ES reciever that's not audiophile quality. So the sound quality is not as good for music listening anyway. But the Golden Ears I'm not convinced is the issue.

Any thoughts on changing the DAC?

 

[lovinthehd]

I did ask Emotiva--it was a while back--they suggested some adjustments--which I made--but they're very hard to get in touch with over the phone.

I've read that Emotiva products are known for this--I had read about it previously on some Emotiva forums--or maybe even here--that this "distortion" is not uncommon when the volume goes up.

I'd be surprised if it were the speakers--I have a surround Def Techs in another room (Sandy gross also responsible for Golden Ear)--and I don't notice the same issue--not comparing apples to apples in this room to room scenario--bc the Def Techs are for movies, and very little music--and it uses a Sony ES reciever that's not audiophile quality. So the sound quality is not as good for music listening anyway. But the Golden Ears I'm not convinced is the issue.

Any thoughts on changing the DAC?

I've never read that about the Emotiva products but then I don't go looking. Just sounds more like a speaker running out of gas, maybe the amp, and while it is possible with the pre-amp just think it's the least likely (especially at that volume reading but haven't looked at specifics of your gear either nor have you come back with info on just what the volume reading means either). Can't see what changing DAC is going to do, you already have a good one. You are the audiophile and a Sony ES receiver is just fine as far as being of high fidelity. You might hook up the Emotiva gear to the DefTec speakers and see if it does the same thing, tho.

 

[lovinthehd]

Another thought is that room acoustics could be having an effect at that point?

 

[TLS Guy]

I did ask Emotiva--it was a while back--they suggested some adjustments--which I made--but they're very hard to get in touch with over the phone.

I've read that Emotiva products are known for this--I had read about it previously on some Emotiva forums--or maybe even here--that this "distortion" is not uncommon when the volume goes up.

I'd be surprised if it were the speakers--I have a surround Def Techs in another room (Sandy gross also responsible for Golden Ear)--and I don't notice the same issue--not comparing apples to apples in this room to room scenario--bc the Def Techs are for movies, and very little music--and it uses a Sony ES reciever that's not audiophile quality. So the sound quality is not as good for music listening anyway. But the Golden Ears I'm not convinced is the issue.

Any thoughts on changing the DAC?

I have never heard of a DAC doing this. A power amp yes, but I doubt you are running your power amp out of gas. This is far and away most likely a speaker problem. 99% odds it is.

In general electronics is of a much higher standard than speakers, which are on the whole uniformly lousy, with nowhere near enough power handling capacity where you really need it. Your symptoms are really typical of speakers reaching saturation.

There is a whole dung pile of misinformation out on the NET, and Emotiva being known for this is almost certainly up there in the in the realm of Internet fantasy.

Speakers that can really take power in that power band from 80 to 2.5 Khz especially from 80 to 500 Hz are a rarity, which is why I design the speakers the way I do. I select well made drivers, with much more massive motor systems than are usually on offer.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

I've read that Emotiva products are known for this--I had read about it previously on some Emotiva forums--or maybe even here--that this "distortion" is not uncommon when the volume goes up.

I'd be surprised if it were the speakers--I have a surround Def Techs in another room (Sandy gross also responsible for Golden Ear)--and I don't notice the same issue--not comparing apples to apples in this room to room scenario--bc the Def Techs are for movies, and very little music--and it uses a Sony ES reciever that's not audiophile quality. So the sound quality is not as good for music listening anyway. But the Golden Ears I'm not convinced is the issue.

Any thoughts on changing the DAC?

If you have the time and energy to do a couple of experiments:
1, move your source, iphone to sonos into the theater setup and see if you hear the same issues.
2, swap out the speakers with the theater speakers in the Emotiva setup, or do this first, and see if your issue is the same.
3, As asked the spl level when you have -20. Is this on the Emotiva? How was the Emotiva setup calibrated and level matched? How is the volume setup in the Emotiva, absolute or relative as you can have two different readout. As it is setup, without music, input, does that volume control go beyond 0, like a + 10 or something?

As also stated by others, most of what you have been reading on line be it on a product board or elsewhere is nonsense.

 

[TLS Guy]

I did ask Emotiva--it was a while back--they suggested some adjustments--which I made--but they're very hard to get in touch with over the phone.

I've read that Emotiva products are known for this--I had read about it previously on some Emotiva forums--or maybe even here--that this "distortion" is not uncommon when the volume goes up.

I'd be surprised if it were the speakers--I have a surround Def Techs in another room (Sandy gross also responsible for Golden Ear)--and I don't notice the same issue--not comparing apples to apples in this room to room scenario--bc the Def Techs are for movies, and very little music--and it uses a Sony ES reciever that's not audiophile quality. So the sound quality is not as good for music listening anyway. But the Golden Ears I'm not convinced is the issue.

Any thoughts on changing the DAC?

I have had a good look at those speakers of yours. I think the problem lies in that ABR sub unit. The response is pretty lumpy bumpy and the recommended setting too high. I would turn down that bass unit b 7 to 8 db. I think it is producing a muddy sound particularly at higher volumes.

Also they seem to run those 6" mids down pretty low to 100 Hz. Not sure why they need to do that given that the bass units are relatively small.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks all--glad to be here. and thanks for any help/insight

Have had a 2 channel system for a few years. Current set-up:

Tidal (highest quality) from my i-phone to Sonos--optical to Emotiva XDA-1 (DAC)--coaxial (i think) to XSP-1 Emotiva pre-amp--then to XPA-2 amp and then on to Golden Ear Triton Reference.

When the volume gets to about -20 dB on the xsp--starts sounding a little distorted--clarity is less--and just gets louder without improving soundstage. I've heard this about emotiva products.

SO I've been told that changing my pre-amp would make the difference--I looked at the Mcintosh c52--and have heard good things about the Anthem STR 2 channel pre-amp.

But should i change my DAC instead to a better quality one (Shiit or opppo)?? Or should I buy a better streaming device than Sonos?? or will any of it make a difference in comparison to what I have now??

Many thanks.

You're controlling the Sonos and choosing Tidal as the source, right? If so, your phone has nothing to do with the sound quality. If it's hard wired to the Sonos piece, turn the phone's volume down a notch and use the Sonos volume control slider. Phones don't have a very good audio section.

IIRC (because Sonos doesn't have a demo mode like MusicCast and HEOS), your Connect should be able to stream Tidal by you choosing/adding it as a music service and logging in. Connecting a phone with a cable is not going to give the best sound quality but if you stream to the Connect, it should be fine.

 

[highfigh]

Doesn't sound like a pre-amp issue. Why should louder improve soundstage?

Possibly because the sound reflecting from the walls and ceiling is loud enough to hear distinctly, rather than being masked by the direct sound. Before I added wall treatments, I had phantom sounds coming from places where I don't have speakers (like the kitchen) and when I lean forward from my sofa, I can hear reflected sound from the right speaker coming from the left wall.

 

[lovinthehd]

Possibly because the sound reflecting from the walls and ceiling is loud enough to hear distinctly, rather than being masked by the direct sound. Before I added wall treatments, I had phantom sounds coming from places where I don't have speakers (like the kitchen) and when I lean forward from my sofa, I can hear reflected sound from the right speaker coming from the left wall.

Yeah I wondered if it could be acoustical issues in post 13. Hard to know over the interwebs!