Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
Amplifier power output at a dB level? RX A3080 150W AMP max. Any chart ?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
dB level is very dependent on your speakers. There are calculators for evaluating SPL for your specific situation.
It is not precise since it depends on AVR and speaker specifications, which are often rough average values and further subject to "interpretation" by the marketing department!
I do not have a link handy for calculator, but someone should be along shortly with that.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So if there are 5 speakers all at 85dB/w/m, distance from speakers is 12 FT, then 127W x 5 Ch driven will produce 105dB.
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
My question was “any way to tell how much current my amp/s are putting out at X dBs”?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
My question was “any way to tell how much current my amp/s are putting out at X dBs”?
Not sure I fully understand your question.

Is that an SPL measure dB? Or, just a broad question. That would depend on speaker sensitivity and impedance at a specific frequency as well, input signal to the amp and perhaps some other parameter.

Or, how much current at a specific power input to speaker?
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
My question was “any way to tell how much current my amp/s are putting out at X dBs”?
Pretty sure that's impossible to answer without a specific dB figure.

Regards,
Wayne A.Pflughaupt
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My question was “any way to tell how much current my amp/s are putting out at X dBs”?
Your original question was about amplifier power output, not current. There's a difference.

But since you want to know the current at the amplifier's output, you could insert a .1 Ohm precision resistor in series with the speaker and measure the voltage drop as it's operating. If you want to do this with music playing, you'll need to be able to record the voltage changes and find a way to select the peaks, or you could use sine wave (or some other wave of choice) before calculating the current. A .1 Ohm resistor makes the calculation easy and doesn't appreciably change the load on the amplifier- use I=E/R.
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
If i understand what you are trying to do, It wouldn't be that difficult to use the same calculator that ADTG provided in reverse with a little trial and error.
IOW, If you want to know how much power to deliver 100dB, you would just throw out a number of watts as a starting point and if it resulted in a SPL lower than 100dB, guess a higher number.
For efficiency, use the tried and true "bracket and half strategy" naval vessels traditionally used when targeting (distance to) another ship. (Obviously, it was critical to hit the other ship as quickly as possible before they start hitting you) As soon as you have a number that was too high and one that is too low (in naval terms, the cannon ball splashed on the near side or the far side of the target ship),split the difference.
If that value is too low, split the difference between it and the previous "too high" value, if it is too high, split the difference between it and the previous "too low" value. Repeating this approach, you will home in on your target pretty quickly!

The impedance of the speakers varies with frequency but unless your speakers have a set of third party tests showing impedance (and phase angle),you can only hope that the spec for impedance is close to accurate for your situation. Generally, you will not get a very accurate value! Just as a wild-assed guess, I'd consider a 25% error to be about what to expect!
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
Of course all of this calculating is complicated by the fact that the speaker is a reactive load. You can estimate current but it too wouldn’t be exact.

Why would you specifically want to know how much current the amplifier is delivering?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Your original question was about amplifier power output, not current. There's a difference.

But since you want to know the current at the amplifier's output, you could insert a .1 Ohm precision resistor in series with the speaker and measure the voltage drop as it's operating. If you want to do this with music playing, you'll need to be able to record the voltage changes and find a way to select the peaks, or you could use sine wave (or some other wave of choice) before calculating the current. A .1 Ohm resistor makes the calculation easy and doesn't appreciably change the load on the amplifier- use I=E/R.
Your original question was about amplifier power output, not current. There's a difference.

But since you want to know the current at the amplifier's output, you could insert a .1 Ohm precision resistor in series with the speaker and measure the voltage drop as it's operating. If you want to do this with music playing, you'll need to be able to record the voltage changes and find a way to select the peaks, or you could use sine wave (or some other wave of choice) before calculating the current. A .1 Ohm resistor makes the calculation easy and doesn't appreciably change the load on the amplifier- use I=E/R.
He would also need a good RMS voltmeter to give true values beyond 60 Hz.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Just as a wild-assed guess, I'd consider a 25% error to be about what to expect!
I'm sure plenty of good equipment has been designed using the SWAG method at some point in the process.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Amplifier power output at a dB level? RX A3080 150W AMP max. Any chart ?
The peak spl calculator that ADTG posted upthread can provide a ballpark estimate of how much power at whatever chosen spl you care to plug in. Try it out.

Your original question was about amplifier power output, not current. There's a difference.

But since you want to know the current at the amplifier's output, you could insert a .1 Ohm precision resistor in series with the speaker and measure the voltage drop as it's operating. If you want to do this with music playing, you'll need to be able to record the voltage changes and find a way to select the peaks, or you could use sine wave (or some other wave of choice) before calculating the current. A .1 Ohm resistor makes the calculation easy and doesn't appreciably change the load on the amplifier- use I=E/R.
He would also need a good RMS voltmeter to give true values beyond 60 Hz.
Your thoughts on the test described in this thread and perhaps something the OP could perform. Just about any cheapie multimeter would suffice.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My question was “any way to tell how much current my amp/s are putting out at X dBs”?
Your original question was difficult to answer, but now you have just made it a little easier by substituting power with current.

As you know, it is dependent on the sensitivity, distance, and the impedance characteristics of the speaker under test. You still need to specify the distance at which the "X" dB is measured. For demonstration, let's just assume the dut is a KEF R500.

sensitivity: 88 dB/2.83V/1m (That's nominal, so let's measure it in your own room)

Impedance: 5 ohms at 500 Hz
https://www.soundstage.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=793:nrc-measurements-kef-r500&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

There are different ways, below are just two I can think of right now:

Option A
1. Play a 500 Hz sine wave test tone, turn the volume up until you get 2.83 V at the amplifier output terminal, or speaker terminals.
2. Measure the spl at 1 meter distance, using C weighting slow.
3. Measure the current with a clamp on meter that is specified for true rms up to 1000 Hz.
4. Repeat 1 but increase distance to 1.5 meter and turn the volume higher until you get the same "X" dB at the new distance of 1.5 meter.
5. Measure the amp output voltage when you reach "X" dB again at the increased distance.
6. Repeat 3. to get the new current reading at the increased distance and increased voltage.

You can keep going, and in the end you will have your chart of current in amperes versus distance, at "X" dB, assuming that's what you are asking for.

That's only good for a 500 Hz sine wave signal, and the readings will be change as you change the frequency of the signal because the impedance of the speaker varies with frequency.

Using a low cost so called true rms clamp on ammeter will not be very accurate as their accuracy are typically best at 50 to 60 Hz and deteriorate rapidly with frequency even for low crest factor signal such as the sine wave.

Option B
Same as above, except ignore step 3, that is, no need to use an ammeter, but simply calculate the current using the formula Current = Voltage/Impedance.

For the 500 Hz sine wave signal, look up the impedance value from the impedance vs frequency graph attached (thanks to Soundstage.com). In this case, it is about 5 ohms at 500 Hz, so the current should be equal to:

Current = 2.83/5 = 0.566 A

Note: If you increase the distance to 1.5 meter again, the spl will drop, so you have to increase the preamp/avr volume until you reach "X" dB again. Then measure the voltage, depending on your room gain, it should be around 4-4.25 V, say 4 V, then current = 4/5 = 0.8 A

So with option B, you can still obtain a chart/graph of Current versus distance, at "X" dB, without a clamp on ammeter, but you still need a reasonably good true rms multimeter that offers reasonable accuracy for say up to 1000 Hz.

You also need either a signal generator (preferred) or various sine wave test tone generator from software such as REW, or down load a bunch of sine wave tones at different frequencies.

It is not difficult to measure current at X dB, you just have to realize that realistically your chart will likely be limited to somewhere around 20-1000 Hz by using a low cost multimeter only, and you also need a good impedance vs frequency graph in order to calculate the current, unless you also have a suitable ammeter.

Back to your original question:
Amplifier power output at a dB level? RX A3080 150W AMP max. Any chart ?
That's a tough one because in any case you will then also need a good phase angle vs frequency chart as well because due to the reactive nature of the moving coil loudspeakers, power cannot be calculated from voltage, current and/or the magnitude of the impedance alone, you need the phase angle as well.


1546116589163.png
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The peak spl calculator that ADTG posted upthread can provide a ballpark estimate of how much power at whatever chosen spl you care to plug in. Try it out.



Your thoughts on the test described in this thread and perhaps something the OP could perform. Just about any cheapie multimeter would suffice.
I'm not sure I understand why someone would want to know how loud their speakers will play, unless it's either for a specific application or for academic reasons. For most listening/use, the maximum loudness is immaterial, really.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
I'm not sure I understand why someone would want to know how loud their speakers will play, unless it's either for a specific application or for academic reasons. For most listening/use, the maximum loudness is immaterial, really.
The test is not about how loud their speakers can get. It's about determining requisite power given their personally chosen loudest listening level, in a more reductive, empirical manner than using one of those calculators. Perhaps the OP wishes to confirm that his Yamaha is sufficient for his needs. Perhaps he's just curious.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
The peak spl calculator that ADTG posted upthread can provide a ballpark estimate of how much power at whatever chosen spl you care to plug in. Try it out.



Your thoughts on the test described in this thread and perhaps something the OP could perform. Just about any cheapie multimeter would suffice.
If your voltmeter cannot read the true RMS volts at 500Hz, how will you know the power? If it does, then it can be calculated correctly.
 
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