So many speakers such little amount of time...help!

[Russdawg1]

Speaker design nowadays require extensive research in audio science and technology. So if matching colors is the aim, this company is great. But if sound quality is the aim, better stay with large companies with considerable research budget.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

What about the 1 man army that is called Dave Fabrikant at Ascend Acoustics. His speakers are designed and assembled by him, and they are top performers in price points 2-3x his asking price.... This whole thought of you need a ginormous team to design a decent speaker is commonly blown out of proportion. Especially by Revel and Dr. Toole fanatics....

 

[ryanosaur]

That's not bad strategy in general but IMO it would be a mistake to pass on Triad simply because you have not heard, or are not familiar with the brand.

The smaller boutique brands don't have the resources of Klipsch and some of the larger brand names but they now have access to top quality drivers, crossovers and in many cases the knowledge to tie them together.

Worst case.. listen.

I can't speak to Triad, but MUST agree... I started out on my quest 6 mos ago near convinced I was going to buy a big/established brand. I almost went Tekton, though I still have yet to hear them, but I was willing to go to SLC UT just to listen to Eric's speakers. The reason I didn't... Philharmonic. I drove almost 5 hrs total to hear some amazing speakers! The result: I am receiving the L/R BMRs in a couple days, with the remaining 5 speakers arriving hopefully in another week... then in 4 mos or so, I should be getting the Phil 3s. Ultimately I went all in with Philharmonic with what will be a 7.x.4 rig by May.
Sure, the big companies have abilities to do some wonderful things. Monitor Audio Silvers were the ones I was going for. But Ascend, Tekton, Salk and Philharmonic, and how many more?! are bucking that philosophy? There has to be room for innovation and creativity!

 

[KEW]

Consider getting the older line (RP280F) because it is essentially the same and will be heavily discounted at this time since they are rolling in the new line.

As long as you have a decent sub, the driver size in your towers will not provide audible differences. Do NOT get a Klipsch sub. Get a sub by HSU, Rythmik, SVS, etc. They have much better price to performance and will destroy an equally priced Klipsch subwoofer.

Actually, get the older line (RP-280F) because, IMHO, they sound better!
I compared the RP-160m against the new RP-600m (both 6.5" bookshelf speakers with same horn as in the larger towers).
I was disappointed in the new model (RP-600m). I suspect it will be preferred by some for music, but, to me, it was too laid back and a little dull even! It may actually be a pretty well liked speaker except anyone looking at Klipsch is probably not looking for laid-back.
I expect from Klipsch...a forward speaker with plenty of "energy"! I believe the RP-280f and that series represent the first Klipsch (at a reasonable budget) that was truly free of harshness - I can point it straight at me and not have a problem. I had @TheWarrior over to listen to them blind (because I wanted to have a younger set of ears double check my judgement on high frequencies) and he had no issues with harshness (despite having the horn pointed directly at him)!
I have another friend who has the previous (to the RP-280f) RP-62ii, (they are much better than previous models and I bought a pair of RP-82ii's based on his system) and he uses very careful adjustment of tow in to get a good musical sound out of them and to reduce the harshness greatly. It sounds good to me, but I know how much time he has spent playing with and tweaking his system to get it that good.
So, I feel like the RP-280f is kind of a golden moment in the history of Klipsch's lower-mid priced speakers!


----------------- On Klipsch Subwoofers ------------------------------------
Also, while I am in agreement on avoiding most of Klipsch's subs, the R-115SW measures reasonably well and I would presume the R-112SW (12" version) is similarly good! AT MSRP, there are better options (Hsu),but if you happen into a discount or a used package involving one of these, don't dismiss it as junk!

Here is Brent Butterworth's review with measurements:

https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsch-r-115sw-subwoofer-reviewed/

Here is his conclusion:

Conclusion
I was starting to think that mainstream speaker companies had no business in today's subwoofer business because they can't deliver the kind of value and performance that some of the Internet-only guys can. The R-115SW proves that notion wrong. It's competitive with practically any subwoofer on the market, yet it costs under $1,000. It does give up a little bit in power compared with its toughest competitors, but few home theater enthusiasts are likely to push their systems hard enough to discover this. And I think many audiophiles will be drawn to the R-115SW's great sense of power and punch.

 

[Russdawg1]

Actually, get the older line (RP-280F) because, IMHO, they sound better!
I compared the RP-160m against the new RP-600m (both 6.5" bookshelf speakers with same horn as in the larger towers).
I was disappointed in the new model (RP-600m). I suspect it will be preferred by some for music, but, to me, it was too laid back and a little dull even! It may actually be a pretty well liked speaker except anyone looking at Klipsch is probably not looking for laid-back.
I expect from Klipsch...a forward speaker with plenty of "energy"! I believe the RP-280f and that series represent the first Klipsch (at a reasonable budget) that was truly free of harshness - I can point it straight at me and not have a problem. I had @TheWarrior over to listen to them blind (because I wanted to have a younger set of ears double check my judgement on high frequencies) and he had no issues with harshness (despite having the horn pointed directly at him)!
I have another friend who has the previous (to the RP-280f) RP-62ii, (they are much better than previous models and I bought a pair of RP-82ii's based on his system) and he uses very careful adjustment of tow in to get a good musical sound out of them and to reduce the harshness greatly. It sounds good to me, but I know how much time he has spent playing with and tweaking his system to get it that good.
So, I feel like the RP-280f is kind of a golden moment in the history of Klipsch's lower-mid priced speakers!

Well said, and I’m glad that they are indeed better than the newer lines. I can live with my statement now I always liked the original RF series, IMO that was the golden time for Klipsch, until we get all the way to the Heritage line, where basically everything is golden for them. The fact that they are still improving the Klipschorn is beyond me, I wish to hear them some time in my life.

Let’s not even discuss the latest “Reference” series...

 

[shkumar4963]

What about the 1 man army that is called Dave Fabrikant at Ascend Acoustics. His speakers are designed and assembled by him, and they are top performers in price points 2-3x his asking price.... This whole thought of you need a ginormous team to design a decent speaker is commonly blown out of proportion. Especially by Revel and Dr. Toole fanatics....

You may be correct about Ascend. And there may be others.

As a general rule, it is best to buy speakers based on science and research. And speakers that are performance tested by others.

Speakers that come to mind that are scinece and research based are, for me, Revel, KEF, Focal and many others.

And yes, I agree about thorough audition before any purchase.

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[KEW]

Thank you for the reply. I've heard that now a couple times what is it that makes Klipsch sound different are they not good quality or is it with the design?

Talking the RP-280f for HT (or the previous RF-82ii, for that matter),the Klipsch offer an energy that just makes an action flick more exciting! If I had to guess, I suspect the horn places some extra emphasis on the high midrange. When we see Hulk punch Thor, we perceive a low and solid "THUMP"; however, "percussive attack" is perceived at around 4kHz, and it is this frequency that gives that punch its immediacy! Also, this happens to be the frequency range that assists "vocal clarity"!
So, for me, descriptors of Klipsch are:
Immediacy - when the poop hits the fan, Klipsch adds to the intensity with an immediate and crisp impact
Microdynamics - a gentle tap of a drumstick at the center of a cymbal is distinctly heard
Impactful (...well, it should be a word) - really the same as above, but instead of a gentle tap on a cymbal, we are talking the stomp of a dinosaur ... going back to the "percussive attack" at the higher frequencies.
Energy - again, just another manifestation of the characteristics above. The overall effect is one of excitement and energy. Part of Klipsch's reputation is as a "high energy rock n roll" speaker!

However, for music, this extra emphasis is an inaccuracy and the right music would reveal it! For me, this inaccuracy probably shows the most with classical music. An instrument like the violin which has lots of harmonics in the high midrange can take on a shrill character that is not accurate.

I consider the RP-280f gold because it retains much of the above qualities, but does not offend (me) for music, so it is the first Klipsch I would be comfortable using for dual duty (music and HT). The RF-82ii is a speaker I would classify as very good for movies, but not as good for dual duty (music and HT).

I assume it is obvious that if you are watching a movie which is primarily about classical music, the Klipsch would not be ideal. However, when I think of the movies I have watched over the past years, that is a rare beast. I do not find the drawbacks of the Klipsch to be a problem for typical soundtracks because I am generally not listening to the soundtrack critically during the movie. That may be a wildcard! I expect some of the guys here are much quicker to listen critically, but I am someone who can thoroughly enjoy listening to music on a 3rd generation (they improved the speaker) Amazon Echo Dot! As long as the music is good, I'm happy. Yes, I know the detail is not great and that I am missing close to 2 octaves off the bottom end, but as long as I'm not hearing distortion or muffled sound, I'm good!
Also, if the soundtrack is rock n roll, the Klipsch do not reveal their inaccuracies that quickly to my ear. There is so much processing involved in electric music that I would not recognize extra emphasis on a guitar (for example).

Sorry for the ramble, but I am also trying to explain to the people who believe the idea of a "good HT speaker" is nonsense, because accuracy is the right speaker for both scenarios. I appreciate that as a purist's approach, but for me they are not the same! I run my subs 6dB hot for HT and -2dB for music (referenced to Audyssey's auto leveling of the subs with the rest of the speakers).
I want my music accurate and my HT fun!!!

 

[Russdawg1]

I want my music accurate and my HT fun!!!

Don’t we all...

Edit: Also I’m surprised you don’t have that big of an AVS forum presence. Most people with your kind of experience are on both...

 

[KEW]

Don’t we all...

Edit: Also I’m surprised you don’t have that big of an AVS forum presence. Most people with your kind of experience are on both...

Thanks for the compliment!
I've been on AVS from time to time, but I feel more of a sense of community on AH. Here, I can develop a better sense of the smaller membership, and among the frequent posters have a good sense of who is who!
Also, AVS has some weird rules restricting comments that I don't want to have to worry about.
I really don't want to invest the time in another (especially a bigger) forum!
Lord knows I spend much more time here than I probably should! But I do find it rewarding to help people make informed decisions about something I care so much about!

 

[Russdawg1]

Thanks for the compliment!
I've been on AVS from time to time, but I feel more of a sense of community on AH. Here, I can develop a better sense of the smaller membership, and among the frequent posters have a good sense of who is who!
Also, AVS has some weird rules restricting comments that I don't want to have to worry about.
I really don't want to invest the time in another (especially a bigger) forum!
Lord knows I spend much more time here than I probably should! But I do find it rewarding to help people make informed decisions about something I care so much about!

Makes sense.

I’m on both because helping out people passes time quite quickly. Sitting in the back of math while on Tapatalk is quite enjoyable instead of actually listening to the lesson

I prefer AVS because like you said it’s bigger, and busier so there is more “fun”, we’ll call it, to be had

I guess I also like the aggressiveness of AVS. People are quite opinionated and we get some very special threads going from time to time. There’s been two that immediately come to mind. The Bose thread and XTonebox thread. The Bose one got deleted the second day and it had racked up a good 250 replies in only 48 hours...

 

[DigitalDawn]

Even though I sell them from time to time, I'm not a huge fan of the "big box" speaker companies. They spend their dollars not only on product design but also advertising. That adds a chunk onto the cost of a speaker. I'll take a hand-built (in the USA), speaker with Scan-Speak drivers any day over something from Klipsch or Polk.

 

[2channel lover]

I can't speak to Triad, but MUST agree... I started out on my quest 6 mos ago near convinced I was going to buy a big/established brand. I almost went Tekton, though I still have yet to hear them, but I was willing to go to SLC UT just to listen to Eric's speakers. The reason I didn't... Philharmonic. I drove almost 5 hrs total to hear some amazing speakers! The result: I am receiving the L/R BMRs in a couple days, with the remaining 5 speakers arriving hopefully in another week... then in 4 mos or so, I should be getting the Phil 3s. Ultimately I went all in with Philharmonic with what will be a 7.x.4 rig by May.
Sure, the big companies have abilities to do some wonderful things. Monitor Audio Silvers were the ones I was going for. But Ascend, Tekton, Salk and Philharmonic, and how many more?! are bucking that philosophy? There has to be room for innovation and creativity!

I had some lengthy conversations with Jim Salk prior to ordering, and had a 180 deg turn on my thought process about speakers. Until that point, I had been demoing mostly established brand names.

When I asked him how did he think his speakers would measure up to what I had demoed and he said...to be honest I haven't heard all of the speakers that you have demoed, but I would have no problem putting the (Song3-A) up against any of them if that's possible and let you be the judge. He said, he chose to be a direct seller because he new if he went the dealer route, the markup would push his product to a level he thought would be a lot harder to sell without being an established brand.

He went on to talk about how he/Phil selected the drivers, and as I started to research the driver level the more comfortable I became with Salk as a potential upgrade to my B&Ws, and within a week or so pulled the trigger on the trio...LCR

Salk's creativity was furniture grade cabinetry, with flat response speakers...he's never going to sell as many unit per yr as Klipsch, but it's working.

 

[ryanosaur]

I had some lengthy conversations with Jim Salk prior to ordering, and had a 180 deg turn on my thought process about speakers. Until that point, I had been demoing mostly established brand names.

When I asked him how did he think his speakers would measure up to what I had demoed and he said...to be honest I haven't heard all of the speakers that you have demoed, but I would have no problem putting the (Song3-A) up against any of them if that's possible and let you be the judge. He said, he chose to be a direct seller because he new if he went the dealer route, the markup would push his product to a level he thought would be a lot harder to sell without being an established brand.

He went on to talk about how he/Phil selected the drivers, and as I started to research the driver level the more comfortable I became with Salk as a potential upgrade to my B&Ws, and within a week or so pulled the trigger on the trio...LCR

Salk's creativity was furniture grade cabinetry, with flat response speakers...he's never going to sell as many unit per yr as Klipsch, but it's working.

And that's the thing about Klipsch and KEF... they have their place. Neither is for me. I guess, as much of a Rocker as I am, if I did nothing but listen to ZZTop, Skynard, and Deep Purple, I probably would've been fine with Klipsch. However, my experience with KEF kinda turned me off, feeling so much fatigue in my ears after 30 minutes of listening to jazz and orchestral samples. Both represent established, well respected companies. Each has, IMHO, a fatal flaw in their higher frequency delivery.

I have actually heard two opinions now on Klipsch: one that their newer speakers are better and less fatiguing, and two that the older model sounds better. Obviously, both CAN be true. I don't have the experience with Klipsch to agree or disagree, but the same can be said for KEF: people are either really into them, or like myself, really not.

Based on what I had heard about Martin Logan, I conversely found myself really digging them, especially the 60XT (and considering that I was auditioning them with a lossy old iPod classic), but the MA Silver 300s and 500s have been my favorites.

But the team of Jim Salk, Dennis Murphy, and Paul Kittinger are responsible for flooring me. If my room sounds half as good as the gentleman's who hosted me in his home to audition the Phil 3s, I will be a very happy man!

Perhaps more telling is how often I've heard comments to the effect of: "these speakers should be selling for 2-3x their actual price," or that "speakers selling for $10 and $20K don't necessarily sound any better... maybe this way, but not as good this other way."

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

my experience with KEF kinda turned me off, feeling so much fatigue in my ears after 30 minutes of listening to jazz and orchestral samples. Both represent established, well respected companies. Each has, IMHO, a fatal flaw in their higher frequency delivery.

I can see Klipsch sounding "bright" in the treble because I think they tend to have peaks in the treble region like DefTech, GoldenEar, newer Paradigm, and B&W.

But I thought KEF speakers have a roll-off (roll-down) in the treble region? So I figured if anything KEF speakers sound more "warm" than "bright".

Which KEF seem bright and fatiguing to you?

 

[ryanosaur]

I can see Klipsch sounding "bright" in the treble because I think they tend to have peaks in the treble region like DefTech, GoldenEar, newer Paradigm, and B&W.

But I thought KEF speakers have a roll-off (roll-down) in the treble region? So I figured if anything KEF speakers sound more "warm" than "bright".

Which KEF seem bright and fatiguing to you?

I auditioned the Q950 and the R900 side by side. They sounded good. I was really excited at first. I had a brief moment of, "can I actually afford these R900s?"
But then the fatigue set in for me, about halfway through my session with them. Several here asked if they were both set up toed in... which they were. I think it was Shady that suggested KEFs do better perpendiclar to the wall, rather than aimed at the LP.
Mind, I'm not meaning to suggest they are bad in any way, but much as you want the right tool for the job, I didn't want something that I would have to "EQ out" as another member suggested he does.

Perhaps the more humorous aspect is that we want speakers that faithfully reproduce sound, yet we revere speakers that color the sound in many aspects. Not claiming expert status in any way. Just strikes me as odd. And maybe the MA Silvers "colour" the sound too, but if they did, it was in a way more suitable to my personal hearing.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

So many speakers such little amount of time...help!

What's the rush?

 

[Russdawg1]

So many speakers such little amount of time...help!

What's the rush?

We’re all running out of time! Gotta find that dragon before it’s too late!

 

[MR.MAGOO]

We’re all running out of time! Gotta find that dragon before it’s too late!

Well, my thought was speaker choice should not be a rush job, it can be time consuming visiting stores, or buying some online and auditioning them in-home.

 

[shadyJ]

Well, my thought was speaker choice should not be a rush job, it can be time consuming visiting stores, or buying some online and auditioning them in-home.

Or you could just buy neutrally measuring speakers and EQ them to taste.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

Or you could just buy neutrally measuring speakers and EQ them to taste.

assuming the average consumer knows how to find "neutrally measured speakers" and can "EQ them to taste"

 

[shadyJ]

assuming the average consumer knows how to find "neutrally measured speakers" and can "EQ them to taste"

OK, that's a good point!