Upgraditus....

[ellisr63]

I have a Yamaha CXA5100 AVP, but I want Auro3d, and also like the voice control that Marantz has. I have been thinking of buying a new AVP or AVR while I can still recover a nice amount for my Yamaha.
Here is my situation... I will be running 7 biamped channels (all very efficient horns), my furthest speaker is about 65' from the rack. I like the Net Radio as it is free, and sounds good to me for non serious listening. I will be getting 2 minidsp 8x8 crossover kits, and most likely Dirac (unless I am overly happy with Audyssey). I have 5 height channels currently, and most likely will be running multiple subs. I only need 2 zones , and would like to have a good android app to use for a backup to my Home Automation control of all of my equipment. I also need at least 7 HDMI inputs. I am retired, and do not have much money to spend, hence why if I am going to upgrade i would like to do it while I can still recover some cash from the Yamaha.

Now if I go With a AVR with preamp outs I will lose my XLR outputs, but my wires will be running 13' above the ground. And then dropping to the amps for at least the front 3 channels. I have B&O amp modules which I can run balanced mono, or as stereo amps (more power than I will need as stereo amps). I like the look of the Marantz AVP, and the one I can afford is the 7704, but if I can get a nice amount for the Yamaha, I might be able to stretch it for the 7705. If I was to get a AVR I am assuming I could save more money.

What should I do?
Is the interconnect length going to be an issue if I run unbalanced wires? I really do not have enough room in my rack to run more mono amps, but I could possible make one big amp with all the B&O amp modules in it, and then run the AVR amps for my Atmos/Auro3d channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

All this for Auro3D?

Possible to get an in-home trial of the Denon X4500 from Best Buy or another local store to see if Auro3D is worth it?

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4500H-Receiver-Cutting-Theater/dp/B0756DGD8H/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1545589476&sr=8-3&keywords=Denon+X4500

If you try Auro3D and find that it's not worth it, then you can return the Denon.

 

[PENG]

Here is my situation... I will be running 7 biamped channels (all very efficient horns),my furthest speaker is about 65' from the rack.

65' is very far, is that the surround back speaker? So how far are you from your other speakers?

I have 5 height channels currently, and most likely will be running multiple subs. I also need at least 7 HDMI inputs.

So do you need 7.1.4 or 7.1.5?

I am retired, and do not have much money to spend, hence why if I am going to upgrade i would like to do it while I can still recover some cash from the Yamaha.

I am in similar boat, so I demoted the AV8801 to my two channel stereo system and got a cheap yesteryear's AVR-X4400H. It sounds like the $899 Denon can do everything for you except balanced I/O that you may not need, and can only do 11 channels total, it probably do feed your 5th height though using the auto switch feature.

Now if I go With a AVR with preamp outs I will lose my XLR outputs, but my wires will be running 13' above the ground. And then dropping to the amps for at least the front 3 channels. I have B&O amp modules which I can run balanced mono, or as stereo amps (more power than I will need as stereo amps).

What's the long wires for, I assume they are signal interconnects, but from what to the AVP/AVR?

I like the look of the Marantz AVP, and the one I can afford is the 7704, but if I can get a nice amount for the Yamaha, I might be able to stretch it for the 7705. If I was to get a AVR I am assuming I could save more money.

I also prefer the look, slightly, of the AVP to the Denon AVRs If look is that important, you can go with the SR7012 that is about $200 to $300 more than the AVR-X4400H and still save money. The AV7704 offers nothing other than the balanced connections.

What should I do?
Is the interconnect length going to be an issue if I run unbalanced wires? I really do not have enough room in my rack to run more mono amps, but I could possible make one big amp with all the B&O amp modules in it, and then run the AVR amps for my Atmos/Auro3d channels.

Assuming the long unbalanced wires for for interconnecting your prepro to the power amps, you probably could stack 3 M2200s that don't need much room to run the LCR channels and use the AVR to run the other speakers. That way may be you can avoid the super long interconnects and eliminate the need of balanced wires. That 65 ft away speaker could be a problem, but even a big power amp won't help you on that as for every 3 dB spl gain you need to double the power output.[/QUOTE]

 

[ellisr63]

65' is very far, is that the surround back speaker? So how far are you from your other speakers?



So do you need 7.1.4 or 7.1.5?



I am in similar boat, so I demoted the AV8801 to my two channel stereo system and got a cheap yesteryear's AVR-X4400H. It sounds like the $899 Denon can do everything for you except balanced I/O that you may not need, and can only do 11 channels total, it probably do feed your 5th height though using the auto switch feature.



What's the long wires for, I assume they are signal interconnects, but from what to the AVP/AVR?



I also prefer the look, slightly, of the AVP to the Denon AVRs If look is that important, you can go with the SR7012 that is about $200 to $300 more than the AVR-X4400H and still save money. The AV7704 offers nothing other than the balanced connections.



Assuming the long unbalanced wires for for interconnecting your prepro to the power amps, you probably could stack 3 M2200s that don't need much room to run the LCR channels and use the AVR to run the other speakers. That way may be you can avoid the super long interconnects and eliminate the need of balanced wires. That 65 ft away speaker could be a problem, but even a big power amp won't help you on that as for every 3 dB spl gain you need to double the power output.

[/QUOTE]
The reason for the long wires is my front channels...my rack is on a loft behind me. I am only about 15' from my front channels. The length is giving me a couple of feet to move the rack to get behind it, and then the wires run from the top of the rack (2' high) al O g the wall to the left rear, then left front, then center, and then right channel(my right surrond, left rear surround, and right rear surround were not included in the example, and are shorter runs). When the wires get to the prospective location the wires drop straight down to the speaker. Hard to quote on a android.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also have a gut feeling that the Marantz AV7000s series is a downgrade from the Yamaha CX-A5000s in terms of build-quality.

I'm also "feeling" that the Yamaha CX-A5000s will have better reliability than the Marantz and Denon.

I think Audyssey XT32 is better than YPAO if you require room EQ.

 

[ellisr63]

All this for Auro3D?

Possible to get an in-home trial of the Denon X4500 from Best Buy or another local store to see if Auro3D is worth it?

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X4500H-Receiver-Cutting-Theater/dp/B0756DGD8H/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1545589476&sr=8-3&keywords=Denon+X4500

If you try Auro3D and find that it's not worth it, then you can return the Denon.

I also like the Alexa option. I have heard nothing but good about Auro3d. Next problem is I moved from California to Mexico...so I have to go by what I read, and gut feelings now since most of the level of equip ent I like is not available here.

 

[ellisr63]

I just realized I will not be able to do 5 height channels... I am currently running 5 height channels as my mains until I get my 7 main, surround, rear surrounds done. So I am looking at 11 channels total, 4 heights, and 7 main plus subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I also like the Alexa option. I have heard nothing but good about Auro3d. Next problem is I moved from California to Mexico...so I have to go by what I read, and gut feelings now since most of the level of equip ent I like is not available here.

Are some people saying that Auro3D is day-and-night better than DSU and NerualX?

Definitely not the first time we hear raves like that about many things.

How's the electronics customer service like in Mexico? If anything goes wrong with a Marantz or Denon, I assume you'll have to pay to ship from Mexico to the US?

I don't know about the repair service of Yamaha, but I have exactly zero percent confidence in the New Jersey factory repair for Denon/Marantz.

My gut feeling is that you are taking a risk in terms of reliability going from Yamaha to Marantz/Denon. Just a gut feeling.

 

[ellisr63]

I can use the B&O amp modules... I was using them in my old setup as a 14 channel amp. As far as my speakers... all 7 channels have EV DH1A drivers which are rated at 114db with 1 watt. My bass bins should be right around 100db. So power should not be an issue as long as I have about 100wpc for the bass bins. I was worried about the long speaker wire runs rolling off the highs, and possibly interference. My amps are small enough I can fit them n the rack if long speaker wires are not an issue.

 

[ellisr63]

Are some people saying that Auro3D is day-and-night better than DSU and NerualX?

Definitely not the first time we hear raves like that about many things.

How's the electronics customer service like in Mexico? If anything goes wrong with a Marantz or Denon, I assume you'll have to pay to ship from Mexico to the US?

I don't know about the repair service of Yamaha, but I have exactly zero percent confidence in the New Jersey factory repair for Denon/Marantz.

My gut feeling is that you are taking a risk in terms of reliability going from Yamaha to Marantz/Denon. Just a gut feeling.

Yes I have seen several reviews saying Auro3d is much better than Dolby or DTX.
There is a high end department store about an hour away that sells Martin Logan, and Marantz as well as some other brands, but I did not see Yamaha there. I wish there was a add-on surround box I could just plug into the Yamaha preamp outs...like the old days of the Fosgate.

 

[ellisr63]

Why doesn't Yamaha do a firmware update for Auro 3d like Marantz did? If they did I would def be keeping my Yamaha, and then just start saving for a Dirac box.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi Ron, I feel like I’ve known you long enough to ask why you’re interested in the great lengths it will take to accommodate Auro when there’s virtually no content available. It seems to me that you would be going down the hd-dvd road. Maybe I’m way off, but I haven’t seen any interest in the US for auro, and as far as I know almost all content is in the euros.

 

[ellisr63]

Well, I have heard great things about Auro3d, and I am setting my height channels up for it. In my current room, I must run my heights on the walls as the ceiling is 32' high at its peak (boveda curved ceiling),and the research I have done said that you can setup Auro3d, DTS, and Atmos with the same setup. Since I do not live in the USA, anymore I can just as easily order my discs from Europe as the USA (since there are no 4k discs sold in Mexico). others are saying that the Yamaha is more reliabme so it sounds like I should just stay with the Yamaha, and add Dirac to my setup. It would be great if MiniDSP would add that to a Dirac box with a bypass for when you want to play DTS or Atmos movies.
You know I usually go for the stuff that is not normally done...like I Am running mono amps so I can turn them on and off by how many channels are needed for the situation. I use Home automation for turning on my stereo channel amps, and turning on the center, and surrounds for 5 channel, etc. If I am watching a movie in 5.1, and decide to listen to a CD, it then switches to my left and right channel amps, and turns off all the rest.

BTW... I do have HD-DVDs too. I pick them up when I see one I want, just like I grab SACDs, and Bluray music too.

 

[Auditor55]

Well, I have heard great things about Auro3d, and I am setting my height channels up for it. In my current room, I must run my heights on the walls as the ceiling is 32' high at its peak (boveda curved ceiling),and the research I have done said that you can setup Auro3d, DTS, and Atmos with the same setup. Since I do not live in the USA, anymore I can just as easily order my discs from Europe as the USA (since there are no 4k discs sold in Mexico). others are saying that the Yamaha is more reliabme so it sounds like I should just stay with the Yamaha, and add Dirac to my setup. It would be great if MiniDSP would add that to a Dirac box with a bypass for when you want to play DTS or Atmos movies.
You know I usually go for the stuff that is not normally done...like I Am running mono amps so I can turn them on and off by how many channels are needed for the situation. I use Home automation for turning on my stereo channel amps, and turning on the center, and surrounds for 5 channel, etc. If I am watching a movie in 5.1, and decide to listen to a CD, it then switches to my left and right channel amps, and turns off all the rest.

BTW... I do have HD-DVDs too. I pick them up when I see one I want, just like I grab SACDs, and Bluray music too.

Why do you run external amps with Klipsch speakers? Is your room very large?

 

[PENG]

The reason for the long wires is my front channels...my rack is on a loft behind me. I am only about 15' from my front channels. The length is giving me a couple of feet to move the rack to get behind it, and then the wires run from the top of the rack (2' high) al O g the wall to the left rear, then left front, then center, and then right channel(my right surrond, left rear surround, and right rear surround were not included in the example, and are shorter runs). When the wires get to the prospective location the wires drop straight down to the speaker. Hard to quote on a android.

So you are talking about speaker wires, then why are you worried about balanced outputs? Balanced output is needed for long interconnects between the preamp, or prepro, and the power amp(s),nothing to do with speaker wires.

 

[PENG]

Why doesn't Yamaha do a firmware update for Auro 3d like Marantz did? If they did I would def be keeping my Yamaha, and then just start saving for a Dirac box.

Denon/Marantz charge a fortune for the Auro3D FW upgrade, it is better to buy their 2017 models that come with it.

 

[ellisr63]

So you are talking about speaker wires, then why are you worried about balanced outputs? Balanced output is needed for long interconnects between the preamp, or prepro, and the power amp(s),nothing to do with speaker wires.

I was planning on putting my amps on my speakers instead of in my rack.

 

[ellisr63]

Why do you run external amps with Klipsch speakers? Is your room very large?

My room is 20'x39'x32'.
I also run multiple amps so I can conserve on electricity...I turn on only the amps needed. Want stereo...turn on left and right only. Want 5 channels turn on 5 channels, etc. I do this all with a home automation setup.

 

[PENG]

I was planning on putting my amps on my speakers instead of in my rack.

Well then if you have to do that then you are stuck with balanced connections and need to pay more for an AVP. Whether it worth trading down from the CX-A5100 for a AV7704/5 is up to you to decide. For me, I would definitely do something to eliminate the need for XLR and go with an AVR in order to future proof myself from higher than necessary future capital expenditure.

 

[ellisr63]

I think I am going to just keep it until Yamaha or another well known brand comes up with Auro3d, and maybe Dirac all in one that is very reliable (I had not thought about Marantz reliability) since I am now in Mexico. I do not want to have to deal with sending the unit to the USA, and being without it for months. I will still run separate power amps due to I turn them on and off depending on what I am listening to.

Well then if you have to do that then you are stuck with balanced connections and need to pay more for an AVP. Whether it worth trading down from the CX-A5100 for a AV7704/5 is up to you to decide. For me, I would definitely do something to eliminate the need for XLR and go with an AVR in order to future proof myself from higher than necessary future capital expenditure.

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