AVR pre-out to Tube Amp

[sakujou]

Hello everyone,

New member here. And already seeking help.

I am currently having the following dilema.

Is it possible to use the Pre-Outs of my Denon X3300 receiver and connect them to a YAQIN MC-5881A tube amp RCA in and connect my speakers to the tube amp?
My worry is that it will use both the pre-amp section of the receiver and the pre-amp section of the tube amp. I was told if I turn the volume too high it could damage both the tube amp and the speakers because of the double pre-amping. Is this really the case?
While listening to music there is also a SMSL DAC involved before the AVR and/or the tube amp, if that even matters.

The thing is I do not want to switch speaker cables between my receiver and tube amp constantly. I know that the pre-outs of the receiver are for hooking power amps or integrated amps with a "direct" function (which switches off their pre-amp section),but my tube amp doesn't such a function.
I know that separating my HT from my music listening is the best solution, but I do not have the money to invest in a separate set of speakers.

Scenario B - 2-Way Audio speaker amplifier switcher/selector work?
I guess it will, but will it degrade the audio?

It would be great if someone can help me on this.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your Yaqin I don't find a manual for. I assume it doesn't have proper inputs for use merely as a power amp so you're stuck with a line input. So more than likely you'd simply find a volume setting on the Yaquin that works without driving the Yaquin into clipping, then simply use the avr as pre-amp for volume control. The pre-outs remain active on the Denon so a speaker switch for the outputs of each amp is probably the least clunky way outside of unplugging/plugging things. I'd think using that tube amp alone with would be more audio degradation than adding a switch, tho. Is there a manual or bench test available for that amp?

How are you planning to use the dac....or rather, why are you using another dac outside of that in the avr? Seems convoluted and just potentially increasing that degradation you're worried about. Now that you've bought extra electronics may as well save up for separate speakers if that's what you really want.

My Denon 4520 has a way of using two separate sets of L/R speakers (for using one in multi-ch mode, the other in 2-ch mode) that would work well for your purposes, but your Denon doesn't have that amp assign feature it seems from looking thru its manual.

 

[highfigh]

Hello everyone,

New member here. And already seeking help.

I am currently having the following dilema.

Is it possible to use the Pre-Outs of my Denon X3300 receiver and connect them to a YAQIN MC-5881A tube amp RCA in and connect my speakers to the tube amp?
My worry is that it will use both the pre-amp section of the receiver and the pre-amp section of the tube amp. I was told if I turn the volume too high it could damage both the tube amp and the speakers because of the double pre-amping. Is this really the case?
While listening to music there is also a SMSL DAC involved before the AVR and/or the tube amp, if that even matters.

The thing is I do not want to switch speaker cables between my receiver and tube amp constantly. I know that the pre-outs of the receiver are for hooking power amps or integrated amps with a "direct" function (which switches off their pre-amp section),but my tube amp doesn't such a function.
I know that separating my HT from my music listening is the best solution, but I do not have the money to invest in a separate set of speakers.

Scenario B - 2-Way Audio speaker amplifier switcher/selector work?
I guess it will, but will it degrade the audio?

It would be great if someone can help me on this.

I doubt you would damage the input of the Yaqin but you will significantly increase the distortion. You know the crunchy, sometimes creamy distortion guitar players use? That's one of the ways they get it- they overdrive the heck out of the input.

You can use a speaker selector, but you MUST remember- NEVER connect or disconnect the load from a tube amp when it's ON. NEVER. You can, however, use one of the personal settings in the Denon to limit the output to a point where the Yaqin isn't overdriven and that's pretty easy to do. That way, you can use the remote from the Denon, even though you're using the tube amp.

If you want to make it easy and use both amps with the same speakers, put a sign up that reminds you to make sure the tubes are off when you make any changes- that way, damage is less likely. I would avoid using a speaker/amp selector with a tube amp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello everyone,

New member here. And already seeking help. ....
I know that separating my HT from my music listening is the best solution, but I do not have the money to invest in a separate set of speakers.

...

Welcome to AH.

Why do you think this?

 

[PENG]

Hello everyone,

New member here. And already seeking help.

I am currently having the following dilema.

Is it possible to use the Pre-Outs of my Denon X3300 receiver and connect them to a YAQIN MC-5881A tube amp RCA in and connect my speakers to the tube amp?
My worry is that it will use both the pre-amp section of the receiver and the pre-amp section of the tube amp. I was told if I turn the volume too high it could damage both the tube amp and the speakers because of the double pre-amping. Is this really the case?
While listening to music there is also a SMSL DAC involved before the AVR and/or the tube amp, if that even matters.

The thing is I do not want to switch speaker cables between my receiver and tube amp constantly. I know that the pre-outs of the receiver are for hooking power amps or integrated amps with a "direct" function (which switches off their pre-amp section),but my tube amp doesn't such a function.
I know that separating my HT from my music listening is the best solution, but I do not have the money to invest in a separate set of speakers.

Scenario B - 2-Way Audio speaker amplifier switcher/selector work?
I guess it will, but will it degrade the audio?

It would be great if someone can help me on this.

I think the first two responses addressed your concerns and mtrycrafts just asked my question for me. Even if what you wanted to do would not cause any issue, there would be no again, only loss, because you will be adding another preamp to the signal chain unnecessarily, and introducing a power amp section that has much higher distortions and generally much poorer audio specs than the Denon. If you happen to like the additional distortions, you may enjoy it in some way, but overall, with the much lower power output, unless your mlp is less than 1 couple meters, in a small room and are happy with nowhere near reference level.

It is easy to try it as HD suggested, but turn the integrated amp's volume to the minimum to start and turn it up very gradually. If you really like what you hear, then start looking for a high quality attenuator.

 

[sakujou]

A lot of thanks to everyone for the replies and provided info.
I will try connecting the tube amp through the receiver, and test it but I y'all will probably be right and it probably will degrade the sound more than an amp switch. Will share my take on the results when I try it.

highfigh's comment however raised a new issue for me.
I digged around online about how people are tackling this "no load on the tube amp" problem when using an amp selector/switch and have the other (SS/AVR usually) selected as active from the switch.
And I guess the solutions are mostly modifications - adding a 100-150Ohm 1-5-10W resistor somewhere along the chain to the tube amp - on the (tube) output of the amp selector, on the cable or on the tube amp speaker binding posts.
Unfortunately I am technically incapable of doing a mod like this myself, but I can search for someone to do it for me.

What's audioholics' users take on amp selectors with resistor mods like this?
Will it degrade audio quality? Or it will just take away a bit from the tube amp's power (I could live with that)?

And by any chance, are there any amp selectors with a built in safety precaution like this being sold somewhere for a reasonable price?

Overall I realise that what I am trying to do might seem a bit convoluted than needed to some people, but I am just trying the find a way to use my AVR for HT and my newly acquired tube amp for music. Of course, without investing in a separate pair of front speakers.

As for the separate system question - well according to many people separating HT from music listening means less devices, less cables, etc, along the way, therefore leading to more tailored sound per the need of each system. Not that I have experience on this topic myself.

About why would I add a tube amp which on paper appears way worse than the Denon audio specs - well, it's subjective, but it appears that I like the sound of the tube amp WAY better than that of the Denon.
Sound colorization aside, I am surprised even by how much better the tube amp handles the lower end, which is supposed to be on of the weakers sides of tube amps compared to solid state. The clarity in mids and highs also seems superior, as well as the airiness / spacing of sound and instruments.
These are my first impressions, of course, I am yet to play around with the amp a bit more.

Again - tons of thanks to everyone for the responses and help provided. It is much appreciated!
It would be great if you can help on my new woes as well.

P.S. I am looking at amp selector like the Beregost TC-7220. Would opting for a Douk audio / Little Bear chinese solution be much worse?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Adding an amp-selector or anything between the tube amp and the AVR will only introduce even more distortion and noise.

But since you like the sound of tubes, which probably has more distortion and noise, you might like more distortion and noise anyway.

So adding the amp selector and more noise and distortion may further speed up the bass, increase the clarity in mids and highs, and produce more air and bigger soundstage.

 

[PENG]

A lot of thanks to everyone for the replies and provided info.
I will try connecting the tube amp through the receiver, and test it but I y'all will probably be right and it probably will degrade the sound more than an amp switch. Will share my take on the results when I try it.

highfigh's comment however raised a new issue for me.
I digged around online about how people are tackling this "no load on the tube amp" problem when using an amp selector/switch and have the other (SS/AVR usually) selected as active from the switch.
And I guess the solutions are mostly modifications - adding a 100-150Ohm 1-5-10W resistor somewhere along the chain to the tube amp - on the (tube) output of the amp selector, on the cable or on the tube amp speaker binding posts.
Unfortunately I am technically incapable of doing a mod like this myself, but I can search for someone to do it for me.

What's audioholics' users take on amp selectors with resistor mods like this?
Will it degrade audio quality? Or it will just take away a bit from the tube amp's power (I could live with that)?

And by any chance, are there any amp selectors with a built in safety precaution like this being sold somewhere for a reasonable price?

Overall I realise that what I am trying to do might seem a bit convoluted than needed to some people, but I am just trying the find a way to use my AVR for HT and my newly acquired tube amp for music. Of course, without investing in a separate pair of front speakers.

As for the separate system question - well according to many people separating HT from music listening means less devices, less cables, etc, along the way, therefore leading to more tailored sound per the need of each system. Not that I have experience on this topic myself.

About why would I add a tube amp which on paper appears way worse than the Denon audio specs - well, it's subjective, but it appears that I like the sound of the tube amp WAY better than that of the Denon.
Sound colorization aside, I am surprised even by how much better the tube amp handles the lower end, which is supposed to be on of the weakers sides of tube amps compared to solid state. The clarity in mids and highs also seems superior, as well as the airiness / spacing of sound and instruments.
These are my first impressions, of course, I am yet to play around with the amp a bit more.

Again - tons of thanks to everyone for the responses and help provided. It is much appreciated!
It would be great if you can help on my new woes as well.

P.S. I am looking at amp selector like the Beregost TC-7220. Would opting for a Douk audio / Little Bear chinese solution be much worse?

As you said, it's subjective, so you obviously like the additional distortions, and I am sure many people do as well especially the tube fans.

 

[sakujou]

The sarcasm and attack was a bit uncalled for, but anyway, I see what you mean.
Meanwhile I got a Lyngdorf SDA 2175 to play around with (using my AVR as a pre-amp) and compare to the tube Yaqin.
So yeah, if I compare those two certainly the tube is inferior in many ways, but not all.
But comparing my Denon X3300 vs the Yaqin tube amp it is no contest at all, imo. The Yaqin is better in almost every possible way, with the small price of some added noise and distortion. According to my taste at least.

Anyway, I will be posting another topic, as I am wondering if I should keep the Lyngdorf, but in that case I would need a separate pre-amp, because I believe the AVR just sucks (might be wrong though).

 

[MrBoat]

Over this last year, I have listened to 8 different amps at length. Some Class D and other chip amps, a Pass DIY pair of mono blocks, tubes, some integrated amps etc. Also plan on building others just for fun and because I like designing and building the chassis as a point of uniqueness, beyond what is practical on the inside.

Recently, I was auditioning less sensitive speakers, so I used the amp section on my old Denon (3805) receiver again and it sounded absolutely marvelous all by itself. What I ended up liking the most about it for my rather humble, 2 channel music setup is, the ridiculous amount of headroom it has, relative to the speakers (I have 8 pairs of different kinds) I use. Even 4 ohm speakers it handles without any fuss so I tend to now take speaker impedance for granted too. In Pure Direct (bypass mode?),it could be any type of amp or receiver, leaving it seemingly even more up to the speakers, if that is possible. In PD mode, it just sits there without any lights even on and everything I play thru it just sounds great.

Funnier yet is, a friend with much more invested, using names like Carver and Parasound, often uses my paltry 2 channel rig as a point of competitive reference to his own. His wife thinks mine sounds much better with music than his does and I think so too, for no other reason than he tends to overcomplicate things, fixing that, which is 'not' broken. I am constantly reminding him that my AVR is old, free to me, and I only have two DIY speakers and 2 DIY subs and without any auto EQ!

 

[sakujou]

It would have been great if things were that simple to me as well.
At least to my years, my AVR is quite inferior in many ways to my other amps (the mentioned Yaqin tube integrated and the Lyngdorf power amp). And I am talking about an audiable difference.

I am still waiting on my amp switchbox so that I can do some blind A/B comparisons, but I seriously doubt it's my imagination or some placebo effect.