Buzzing noise from Marantz SR5008

[PENG]

I guess we might say this is one example where an AVR is better than a Pre-pro.

If the Pre-pro causes intractable noises (buzzing or humming), you have to replace it. If an AVR causes noises, you can just use the internal amps.

True, and based on this latest information, I would say the issue is not related to power supply quality, but grounding related issues. The fact that it appears to affect both D&M avrs/prepros and in sort of intermittent and/or hit and miss way, I would further speculate that it is a quality control related issue. For example, it could be some dry joint(s), within the grounding scheme, thereby explaining why only the odd ones are affected. I have never read about similar behavior with Yamaha AVRs on various forums, that's another indication that as M Code mentioned many times, Yamaha avrs have a better reliability record and it looks like they have better quality control as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

True, and based on this latest information, I would say the issue is not related to power supply quality, but grounding related issues. The fact that it appears to affect both D&M avrs/prepros and in sort of intermittent and/or hit and miss way, I would further speculate that it is a quality control related issue. For example, it could be some dry joint(s),within the grounding scheme, thereby explaining why only the odd ones are affected. I have never read about similar behavior with Yamaha AVRs on various forums, that's another indication that as M Code mentioned many times, Yamaha avrs have a better reliability record and it looks like they have better quality control as well.

And why I turned 180-degrees from Denon/Marantz to Yamaha. It was painful, but I'm okay now.

I wonder why Gene went from Denon to the Yamaha CX-A5100 + MX-A5100, instead of the Marantz AV8802a?

Hmm.

 

[PENG]

And why I turned 180-degrees from Denon/Marantz to Yamaha. It was painful, but I'm okay now.

I wonder why Gene went with the Yamaha CX-A5100 + MX-A5100, instead of the Marantz AV8802a?

Hmm.

I could be turned too, but for now it is XT32 that is keeping me in the D&M camp.

 

[dannispel]

Is it a constant level buzz, or it varies with the volume? Are everything connected direct to wall oulets, or to some sort of power bars?

It is a constant buzz. Exactly the same as what zeuiax described last March. One external amplifier and the receiver are connected to a power strip, and the other external amplifier is directly in the wall, which I believe is on the same circuit as the power strip (on the other side of the room).

So Pre-outs are disconnected - you are not using the external amps now?

And you are just using the Marantz AVR by itself?

Yeah, I bet you won't hear any more buzzes. That's what happened with my Denon. As long as I just use the AVR all by itself and not use any external amps, there was no buzzing noise.

Right. Just the AVR now. No buzzing.

I might try a few things to see if I can make the buzzing stop when the external amps are connected. Maybe if I plug them both into a power strip or both into the wall it'd make a difference. Like PENG said, these issues are complicated, so I might just get lucky.

 

[PENG]

I might try a few things to see if I can make the buzzing stop when the external amps are connected. Maybe if I plug them both into a power strip or both into the wall it'd make a difference. Like PENG said, these issues are complicated, so I might just get lucky.

Agreed, and I bet if you try hard enough you can solve this, and I do think it is likely a quality control issue, such as a bad solder joint somewhere and it is not detrimental but only when several things happen at the same time it would hum/buzz. The trick is to give it a different combination. I know, it is easy for me to say, but.......it is worth trying as you have no warranty left anyway.

 

[M Code]

As posted previously...
We sell/install the major brands of AVRs including Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz and Yamaha. Besides @ 1 time or another we did consulting/product development for each respective brand so we have certain insights to their respective factories and development teams . The major issue regarding Yamaha and their better reliability and quality control, is IMO based on the following:

• Yamaha AVRs are built/assembled by Yamaha in their own factories
• Yamaha AVRs are designed by Yamaha, not out-sourced
• Yamaha AVRs have HDMI/HDCP/CEC certification
• Yamaha has substantial production qtys(consumer & pro) giving them strong purchasing power to procure higher-grade components

Bottom line..
As a seller/installer for many, many years we support the AV brands that have fewer issues, less returns. The other AVR brands could possibly duplicate what Yamaha does, but most of them are marginally profitable @ best... While their respective ownership/equity has changed significantly over the last 15 years...

Just my $0.02...

 

[dannispel]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll see if anything resolves my issue in the long term, but for now, no buzzing. I should note that I didn't have the same issue when I had the exact same speaker configuration on my Denon before I upgraded to the Marantz, giving some more evidence to that it's a quality control thing.

 

[PENG]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll see if anything resolves my issue in the long term, but for now, no buzzing. I should note that I didn't have the same issue when I had the exact same speaker configuration on my Denon before I upgraded to the Marantz, giving some more evidence to that it's a quality control thing.

The sad thing is, people tend to blame everything on the brand. I read about someone on the avsforum who had similar experience with his Denon x4400h but not a Marantz model he replaced, so he returned the Denon and bought the SR7012 and probably sworn he would stick with Marantz forever. In reality, you and I both know, it is most likely a quality control issue that resulted in occasional imperfection, and that in turn would act up when certain stars are aligned.

Problems due to such issues are random in nature, and typically for everyone who experience problem, there are many more who don't.. If the sample size are significant enough, the factory would have, or should have caught it, and fix it in the newer batches otherwise nothing will happen and people who end up with the problem within the warranty period would have returned them and got replacements. Sounds complicated but I really believe it is actually that simple. Even ADTG's $7000 AVP, not everyone has issues after 8 years. Do a search and you will find happy owners still using them, but true, there are a few that died prematurely and I do agreed with him that it is not acceptable for Denon to not fixing the problem for him.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

The sad thing is, people tend to blame everything on the brand. I read about someone on the avsforum who had similar experience with his Denon x4400h but not a Marantz model he replaced, so he returned the Denon and bought the SR7012 and probably sworn he would stick with Marantz forever. In reality, you and I both know, it is most likely a quality control issue that resulted in occasional imperfection, and that in turn would act up when certain stars are aligned.

Problems due to such issues are random in nature, and typically for everyone who experience problem, there are many more who don't.. If the sample size are significant enough, the factory would have, or should have caught it, and fix it in the newer batches otherwise nothing will happen and people who end up with the problem within the warranty period would have returned them and got replacements. Sounds complicated but I really believe it is actually that simple. Even ADTG's $7000 AVP, not everyone has issues after 8 years. Do a search and you will find happy owners still using them, but true, there are a few that died prematurely and I do agreed with him that it is not acceptable for Denon to not fixing the problem for him.

This is why quality control is so crucial. When i get a lemon, i dont dont buy that brand again, ever.

 

[snakeeyes]

Didn’t most of you add multiple fans to cool down your demons to extend their life? Think that has been mentioned several times at least. Those run hot.

 

[andyblackcat]

If that unit buzzes with nothing connected to any inputs, it is not an external grounding issue.

It could be RF interference. However I think it has a dry solder joint some place, probably in the ground plane. I suspect the trip to the service center shook things up and made the contact good for a period of time.

Unfortunately these sort of faults are hard to trace and take lots of patience.

Yes that's what I think is the case with my Yamaha RX-V650 that I use to power most of the five screen speakers with, in the internal input mode. A mild steady buzzing like noise its way low in level but the HF horns make it audible to my listening ears and I could have changed the AVR for another one to use as external amp as AVR's are cheap.

I could go inside and try and wiggle the components topside and inspect the underside of the soldering looking for anything that is lose. The AVR only cost £65.00 some 6 or 7 years ago so it was cheap but an okay AVR when I used to use it as a main AVR in the system but when I started getting more speakers and Crossover systems I realized I could use the AVR as amplifiers only which is a huge saving.

I also have a two Denon AVR that doesn't have no noise just has a typical dry-joint that I'm 100% sure about as one of the amps on it sometimes works and needs a slap on the side of the case and guess what... It works hence DRY JOINT on the soldering.

I have a Kenwood AVR used to be main AVR for many years and that over the years I guess? The heat was slowing working its way to loosen the soldering. I guess THX doesn't certify soldering quality, just my 1pence thought on that.

 

[andyblackcat]

Expanding on this. I have Marantz vintage amplifiers 1030/1050 still working all needs doing is the balance sliders to be replaced they are over 40 years old but the rest of it still okay in working order with no grounding noise no buzzing noises, over some of the throw away AVR's of today and that again is just my 1pence thought on that.

 

[andyblackcat]

This is why quality control is so crucial. When i get a lemon, i dont dont buy that brand again, ever.

I second your post on that point! Lemon is what they are. They market all this as bells and whistles and its a flagship model LMAO yeah if its a flagship then why do they have another model the next year to milk us all over again? Dolby labs had good cinema processes the Dolby Stereo CP200 is the 70mm flagship when it comes to 70mm and that processor was made 1980 and still in use in selected 70mm cinemas, still to this very day.

I buy an AVR and its not only useless in few years but they may have dumped the firmware updates for it so feature proof. what a load of toss. Yeah sure the CP200 parts no longer made for it and its looking around for spare parts or someone that knows how to service them to keep them still running in the analouge domain while we poor saps struggle frustratingly with lemons.

 

[andyblackcat]

A fine solution, but it doesn't help much with what I've got. What I'm trying to figure out is if it's an issue with the receiver itself or the power source, inputs, etc. The original thread left off before any resolution. It seems like it's time to upgrade if the receiver is defective and Marantz can't fix it.

Upgrade. I get the feeling its what they are hoping for all "us consumers" to do buy there brand again as all the other brands are the same with Gremlins built into it with a countdown clock to when its going to fail especially with digital I have no idea what they programmed the microchips with. I'm also skeptic about the new firmware updates I mean AVR's now are like computers. How many widow pc have I had that needed updates and then after short while the pc failed.

Oh hasn't Marnatz extended its guarantee to 5 years so I guess I only have my SR6012 for five years before it self-destruct with lots of Clanging and Buzzing noises.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Didn’t most of you add multiple fans to cool down your demons to extend their life? Think that has been mentioned several times at least. Those run hot.

I have fans atop every component, past and present.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Even ADTG's $7000 AVP, not everyone has issues after 8 years. Do a search and you will find happy owners still using them, but true, there are a few that died prematurely and I do agreed with him that it is not acceptable for Denon to not fixing the problem for him.

Not just that. Grassy's AVP-A1 also died prematurely. He's in Australia and I'm in the USA, but we're on the same forum.

Prior to buying my brand new AVP-A1HDCI 8 years ago, I bought a refurbished AVP-A1. It was DOA! No OUTPUT. I had to return it.

Didn't those bastards at the New Jersey factory fix that refurbished AVP-A1HDCI? It was a foreshadowing of what would happen to my AVP-A1HDCI 8 years later, but I just didn't know. They couldn't fix that AVP-A1 THEN, and they couldn't fix my AVP-A1 NOW.

I should have thought it out. Should have asked, "If this NJ factory can't fix that AVP-A1, will they be able to fix any of my Denon later?"

Don't forget the other 3 DOA Denon's I bought. They were not from A4L, but those Denon's had to come from that main factory in New Jersey at some time. What? That NJ factory couldn't fix those 3 Denon's either?

And, let's not forget I sent in another Denon AVR about 8 or 9 years ago to the New Jersey factory. Same problem as my AVP-A1 - NO OUTPUT.

Oh, yeah, the NJ factory sent that Denon back to me alright. I plugged it in. You recall what I said happened? First, there was still NO VOLUME OUTPUT. Then minutes later, it literally went up in smoke!

Those damn NJ bastards couldn't fix any of those Denon's to save their lives!

Was I just too loyal or just too stupid?

If I were not so loyal to Denon back then, I would have jumped ship and gone with Yamaha. I can't believe I didn't switch to Yamaha after all that.

So switching from Denon to Yamaha like this for me wasn't an overnight decision. I think it had been brewing over the last 8 years.

Hopefully I will never see any issues with Yamaha. Time will tell.

 

[PENG]

Not just that. Grassy's AVP-A1 also died prematurely. He's in Australia and I'm in the USA, but we're on the same forum.

Prior to buying my brand new AVP-A1HDCI 8 years ago, I bought a refurbished AVP-A1. It was DOA! No OUTPUT. I had to return it.

Didn't those bastards at the New Jersey factory fix that refurbished AVP-A1HDCI? It was a foreshadowing of what would happen to my AVP-A1HDCI 8 years later, but I just didn't know. They couldn't fix that AVP-A1 THEN, and they couldn't fix my AVP-A1 NOW.

I should have thought it out. Should have asked, "If this NJ factory can't fix that AVP-A1, will they be able to fix any of my Denon later?"

Don't forget the other 3 DOA Denon's I bought. They were not from A4L, but those Denon's had to come from that main factory in New Jersey at some time. What? That NJ factory couldn't fix those 3 Denon's either?

And, let's not forget I sent in another Denon AVR about 8 or 9 years ago to the New Jersey factory. Same problem as my AVP-A1 - NO OUTPUT.

Oh, yeah, the NJ factory sent that Denon back to me alright. I plugged it in. You recall what I said happened? First, there was still NO VOLUME OUTPUT. Then minutes later, it literally went up in smoke!

Those damn NJ bastards couldn't fix any of those Denon's to save their lives!

Was I just too loyal or just too stupid?

If I were not so loyal to Denon back then, I would have jumped ship and gone with Yamaha. I can't believe I didn't switch to Yamaha after all that.

So switching from Denon to Yamaha like this for me wasn't an overnight decision. I think it had been brewing over the last 8 years.

Hopefully I will never see any issues with Yamaha. Time will tell.

I hear you, and again, Denon should have fixed it regardless. There is no excuse, it's not rocket science.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I hear you, and again, Denon should have fixed it regardless. There is no excuse, it's not rocket science.

Denon should have fixed the AVP-A1 that I bought brand new and sent in TWICE.

They should have fixed the AVP-A1 that I bought refurbished 8 years ago and saved me a lot of money! Right?

Actually, come to think of it, if they had fixed that refurbished $3K AVP-A1 back then, I probably would not have bought the $5K AVR-5308CI (another stupid purchase) or $7K AVP-A1HD! Could have saved me a ton!

They also should have fixed the other 3 dead refurbished Denon's.

They should have fixed the one other Denon I sent in also.

They should have fixed a lot of things.

 

[PENG]

Denon should have fixed the AVP-A1 that I bought brand new and sent in TWICE.

They should have fixed the AVP-A1 that I bought refurbished 8 years ago and saved me a lot of money! Right?

Actually, come to think of it, if they had fixed that refurbished $3K AVP-A1 back then, I probably would not have bought the $5K AVR-5308CI (another stupid purchase) or $7K AVP-A1HD! Could have saved me a ton!

They also should have fixed the other 3 dead refurbished Denon's.

They should have fixed the one other Denon I sent in also.

They should have fixed a lot of things.

Wow, no wonder you seem to be against buying refurbished items. I think it is a reflection of their customer support's attitude. If they made the AVP, they have to know how to fix one, even if it means replacing multiple boards. I am not sure if Yamaha are perfect or much nearer to perfect though, so my attitude now is to stick with mid range last year models, such as my X4400H. My next upgrade would likely be a X4800H, SR7016 in order to limit my capital exposure to less than 1K. For the Yamaha route, I would be forced to spend more, on the flag ship RX-A models because the 2000 series don't offer 11 channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Wow, no wonder you seem to be against buying refurbished items. I think it is a reflection of their customer support's attitude. If they made the AVP, they have to know how to fix one, even if it means replacing multiple boards. I am not sure if Yamaha are perfect or much nearer to perfect though, so my attitude now is to stick with mid range last year models, such as my X4400H. My next upgrade would likely be a X4800H, SR7016 in order to limit my capital exposure to less than 1K. For the Yamaha route, I would be forced to spend more, on the flag ship RX-A models because the 2000 series don't offer 11 channels.

Oh, you're doing Atmos 7.1.4?

It would be significantly more difficult for you to change from Denon/Marantz to anything else since you love XT32.

As for refurbished, it depends on the type of defects. If it's just HDMI boards, then that's an easy fix that even most incompetent techs in NJ could do.

If the problem is "NO OUTPUT", then forget about.

Maybe A4L only takes the refurbished Denon's that have HDMI issues, not "NO OUTPUT" issues.

And I have no idea how the Yamaha techs are with repairs if the AVRs do require service.

But with everything that M Code has been saying all this time plus my own personal experience, if any newbie wants to try Denon/Marantz, they might want to stick to the X1000, X2000, X3000, and X4000 on big discounts. It hurts 1000% less when the AVR is $300-$800, not $5-7K.