Looking for a good stereo receiver.

[Ken32]

I bought a x4400h, but I wish I had kept the x3400h for my other room for a 2 channel system and sell my Marantz AVP instead. Yes, the x3400h is that good, sounds incredible but true, to me anyway. In my opinion, it is the best value for $599, beats any current two channel receiver or even integrated amps at that price point.

Well, i guess I’ll keep my options open to an avr as well. I just figured where stereo units use less tech and keep things simple, they’d have better dacs and overall better sound. I guess I’ve been looking at it wrong.

 

[Ken32]

Here's the A4L policy for returns https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/cms/returns/returns/1.html

Thank you! Found it on their site before i seen this.

 

[Ken32]

I'm pretty sure they do but that link will answer your question. I've been happy with the gear I bought from them. I just wish they had a frequent flier program given how much stuff I've bought from them,

I’m looking at some of their factory refurb stuff now, how is the condition of stuff like that when you get it? E.g. scratched up, dents, or any blemishes?

 

[PENG]

Well, i guess I’ll keep my options open to an avr as well. I just figured where stereo units use less tech and keep things simple, they’d have better dacs and overall better sound. I guess I’ve been looking at it wrong.

Fair point, but even that is not totally true, at least not for the newer models. The thing is, you can't beat the scale of economy thing, so even some near $500-$1000 (example Yamaha's) integrated amps, and of course stereo receivers as well, use some of the same ICs (yes, even some of the same ICs used for 7 channel AVRs) for things like switching, volume control, and protective schemes etc. It is not really a negative, I just mention it as a matter of facts.

DAC chips are typically not the bottleneck, but since you mentioned it, I can tell you that I cannot name one single 2 ch stereo receiver or integrated amp in the <$1000 range that offers a better DAC chip than the AK4458 in the AVR-X3400H or the ES9006 in the RX-A1070. If anyone can, please do..

 

[John Parks]

Well, i guess I’ll keep my options open to an avr as well. I just figured where stereo units use less tech and keep things simple, they’d have better dacs and overall better sound. I guess I’ve been looking at it wrong.

I would not say that you have been looking at things wrong. There are many on this forum that believe one can get the same quality from an AVR for 2.1 listening as one can get from a dedicated stereo receiver or integrated amplifier. I personally have not directly compared the sound quality between the two types as home theater does not really interest me a this point and I have always made my purchases based on the type of setup I was going to use (namely, 2 channel). The only drawback that I am aware of (and this has been discussed at length on this forum) is that AVRs cram a lot into one chassis and chance of failure of a component may, repeat may, be higher. There is a lot of talk about AV pieces failing and/or becoming quickly obsolete whereas not a whole lot of chatter regarding 2 channel stuff crapping out. In my 40+ years of experience, I have never had a 2 channel amplification component fail on me (I could be lucky in that regard). Speakers failing? Yes. CD/DVD/Blu Ray players failing? Yep. But never a stereo component. Take from that what you will, but if it were my money (my two cents, as it were) and my interest were 2.1 with no thoughts of expanding to multi, I would stick with dedicated 2 channel stuff.

 

[John Parks]

I’m looking at some of their factory refurb stuff now, how is the condition of stuff like that when you get it? E.g. scratched up, dents, or any blemishes?

I got my Yamaha A-S801 as a refurb from Accessories4Less and it was darn near perfect - I could not find a scratch or mar anywhere. The only complaint I had was that the unit was packed wrong and the styrofoam protective shell pushed on on the volume control too hard. It was coming in contact with the front panel and rubbed against it when trying to adjust the volume. I simply pulled it out a bit and it works perfectly.

A4L does have a disclaimer regarding its refurbished items, so please read carefully.

 

[Ken32]

Fair point, but even that is not totally true, at least not for the newer models. The thing is, you can't beat the scale of economy thing, so even some near $500-$1000 (example Yamaha's) integrated amps, and of course stereo receivers as well, use some of the same ICs (yes, even some of the same ICs used for 7 channel AVRs) for things like switching, volume control, and protective schemes etc. It is not really a negative, I just mention it as a matter of facts.

DAC chips are typically not the bottleneck, but since you mentioned it, I can tell you that I cannot name one single 2 ch stereo receiver or integrated amp in the <$1000 range that offers a better DAC chip than the AK4458 in the AVR-X3400H or the ES9006 in the RX-A1070. If anyone can, please do..

Heck if that’s the case, i can get an onkyo RZ820 for 429 from access4less. It uses the same dacs as the denon and has 130wpc into 8ohms. It has no video enhancing features, it’s all passthru which is kinda what I’m after. Looks like it scores well on sites also.

 

[Ken32]

I got my Yamaha A-S801 as a refurb from Accessories4Less and it was darn near perfect - I could not find a scratch or mar anywhere. The only complaint I had was that the unit was packed wrong and the styrofoam protective shell pushed on on the volume control too hard. It was coming in contact with the front panel and rubbed against it when trying to adjust the volume. I simply pulled it out a bit and it works perfectly.

A4L does have a disclaimer regarding its refurbished items, so please read carefully.

Okay. Thanks. I’ll read a bit more on it. I’m thinking about ordering from them. But maybe I’ll wait for Black Friday at retailers to see what they offer as well.

 

[John Parks]

Fair point, but even that is not totally true, at least not for the newer models. The thing is, you can't beat the scale of economy thing, so even some near $500-$1000 (example Yamaha's) integrated amps, and of course stereo receivers as well, use some of the same ICs (yes, even some of the same ICs used for 7 channel AVRs) for things like switching, volume control, and protective schemes etc. It is not really a negative, I just mention it as a matter of facts.

DAC chips are typically not the bottleneck, but since you mentioned it, I can tell you that I cannot name one single 2 ch stereo receiver or integrated amp in the <$1000 range that offers a better DAC chip than the AK4458 in the AVR-X3400H or the ES9006 in the RX-A1070. If anyone can, please do..

@PENG I am not really well read on DACs. How does the ES9010K2M Sabre found in my A-S801 compare? It looks like the R-N803 has the ES9006 as well...

 

[PENG]

Peng, I am not really well read on DACs. How does the ES9010K2M Sabre found in my A-S801 compare? It looks like the R-N803 has the ES9006 as well...

If we compare the chips only:

ES9006:
THD: 102 dB/0.0007943%
DYN/SN: 120 dB

AK4458
THD: 107 dB/0.0004467%
DYN/SN: 115 dB

So the ESS does better in dynamic/noise, and the AKM better in THD.

Neither one would likely be the weakest link in the audio path.

Both units have the volume control IC in the path that could be the weakest link in terms of distortions and noises. Hard to tell which one is better, but the x3400h sounded as good as my Halo amp, that's amazing.

 

[PENG]

Heck if that’s the case, i can get an onkyo RZ820 for 429 from access4less. It uses the same dacs as the denon and has 130wpc into 8ohms. It has no video enhancing features, it’s all passthru which is kinda what I’m after. Looks like it scores well on sites also.

If sound quality if your worry, it should be easy for you to just grab a returnable 2 channel one and do a AB with your x4400h that sounded the same to me as the x3400h, all else being equal.

 

[snakeeyes]

I have the ESS 9006A on my Yamaha 2060 but the Burr-brown DACs sound fine on my A770.

What are we expecting from the chip? It can’t make that much difference, can it?

 

[PENG]

I have the ESS 9006A on my Yamaha 2060 but the Burr-brown DACs sound fine on my A770.

What are we expecting from the chip? It can’t make that much difference, can it?

Right, but to have a better one makes some people feel better. I do feel more comfortable about D&M since they upgraded to the AK4458. Better specs = better sound for some people, if you factor in Placebo effects and expectation bias. I won't accept anything less than the likes of ES9006, AK4458, ES9010K2M, PCM1690 (much prefer the PCM1795/1796 or at least the 1791.

 

[lovinthehd]

I’m looking at some of their factory refurb stuff now, how is the condition of stuff like that when you get it? E.g. scratched up, dents, or any blemishes?

Condition has been as new but I did get two refurbs that didn't work properly and had to be returned (which is an issue with the manufacturer's contracted service center rather than A4L). That's just part of the risk of buying such, tho. Many have not had that problem, either.

 

[snakeeyes]

Right, but to have a better one makes some people feel better. I do feel more comfortable about D&M since they upgraded to the AK4458. Better specs = better sound for some people, if you factor in Placebo effects and expectation bias. I won't accept anything less than the likes of ES9006, AK4458, ES9010K2M, PCM1690 (much prefer the PCM1795/1796 or at least the 1791.

Think if similar price, sure why not have the nicer chip. As far as hearing a difference, not so sure you can.

 

[bikemig]

I’m looking at some of their factory refurb stuff now, how is the condition of stuff like that when you get it? E.g. scratched up, dents, or any blemishes?

It has been uniformly excellent. Over the years, I have bought from the a marantz cd player, a denon integrated amp and CD player, a yamaha networking amplifier, and a yamaha preamplifier. No issues with the condition of any of them. I had an issue with a CD player and returned it within the window for another unit.

 

[lovinthehd]

IMO, 90 Hz is a frequency that very well works with most installations. This is why Yamaha decided on this frequency.

That’s true. Usually 80 or 90 or 100 are right so 90hz is in the middle there.

The only mention of a crossover in the manual is that on a subwoofer; seems it does not actually have one. Or am I missing something?

 

[snakeeyes]

The only mention of a crossover in the manual is that on a subwoofer; seems it does not actually have one. Or am I missing something?

On N803 it mentions a 90hz fixed high pass. The back panel has one sub out. I’m unsure if it has any additional info.

 

[lovinthehd]

On N803 it mentions a 90hz fixed high pass. The back panel has one sub out. I’m unsure if it has any additional info.

Searching the manual for high pass I got zilch, searching for crossover only the subwoofer's controls come up. I'm thinking the speakers are full range and it has a limit on the sub out of 90hz. I see a cutoff in the specs after the sub pre-out info. Doesn't appear to have an actual crossover...

 

[bikemig]

The only mention of a crossover in the manual is that on a subwoofer; seems it does not actually have one. Or am I missing something?

On N803 it mentions a 90hz fixed high pass. The back panel has one sub out. I’m unsure if it has any additional info.

The crossover is handled via the app. There is a thread here on the N803 with a screen shot of bass management.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-r-n803-stereo-network-receiver-with-ypao-bass-mgt.109121/