Any input on high mounted "Presence" speakers vs ceiling mounted

[newbster]

I'm working on a speaker layout and am wondering what I should know about this. Does either config work better than the other? Is there an obvious choice as in definitely go one way but if you can't just do the other?

 

[yepimonfire]

Depends. Overhead on ceiling speakers are ideal, especially if you're doing a 2 overhead speaker setup. Front height and rear height can work well provided four speakers are used (front and back) and the angle of elevation is a minimum of 30 degrees or more.

Regardless, if two wall mounted speakers are your only option, it's better than no height speakers at all, but what I'd do in that case is mount them as side wall heights right at the ceiling just a bit in front of the mlp and configure them as top middle.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[Dmantis10]

Dolby Atmos is where it's at today. I'm kicking myself for not doing it years ago. I just got into Atmos in my home this summer.
The best configuration is overhead in ceiling and using the one setup that fits your room the best. The best thing to do is go to www.dolby.com and learn all you can about dolby Atmos. Not a bad idea to learn about 5.1 and so on and get up to speed on all the available surround formats. The goal is to get things as close to the spec as possible. Not every room can do so so you have to first learn about the formats and then decide which one fits in your room and will give you the best overall experience. Poorly placed speakers vs none , none usually works better. So if your room can do a very nice 5.1 then go that route, good quality 5.1 still to this day is incredible.BUT if you can get into Atmos correctly then I say absolutely go for it strong.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf
Here’s some white paper stuff if you want to dig a little deeper.
I also presume you’re referring to “front height” when you say front presence. The latter to me is talking about older Dolby PLIIz or earlier Yamaha “presence” implementations. IMO they’re basically useless today, especially compared to Atmos. They were OK in their day, but if your gonna mount speaker anywhere on/near/ the ceiling it’s worth going for Atmos layouts. As mentioned, front height is a supported configuration, but I’m not sure it’s really that good. To me that would be a difficult location to phantom image from, but is probably ok.

 

[Auditor55]

I'm working on a speaker layout and am wondering what I should know about this. Does either config work better than the other? Is there an obvious choice as in definitely go one way but if you can't just do the other?

It depends on your room. If you can do ceiling speakers, that will be the way to go for Dolby Atmos, that is what they recommend for their system. Everyone can't or don't want to do overhead speakers, so you have the front height and rear height compromise. If you want go all in on Atmos, do the the in-ceiling if your ceiling is 8 feet (like most ceilings are), if you have a 9 ft ceiling do ceiling speakers, but not in-ceiling speakers. As a last resort, you can use Dolby Atmos enabled speakers.

The Dolby Atmos system recommended speaker placement isn't that flexible, if you are interested in DTS-X, according to DTS, your speakers placement isn't as critical as Dolby Atmos as the DTS-X processor will render the placement of the objects based on whatever type of speaker placement you have.

One thing to keep in mind, we're very early in the immersive audio game, some of the content out there might not be that impressive to you, they still need to tweak it a bit. A lot of the mixes are kind stupid, they do more to pull you out of movie than to immerse you in one. In my opinion, both DTS-X and Dolby Atmos, are kind of flawed in that they recommend too many speakers to be place above your head, however in real life, humans don't really perceive that much sound coming directly above our head. However, some of these sound mixers will place all kind of sounds above you.

 

[snakeeyes]

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf
Here’s some white paper stuff if you want to dig a little deeper.
I also presume you’re referring to “front height” when you say front presence. The latter to me is talking about older Dolby PLIIz or earlier Yamaha “presence” implementations. IMO they’re basically useless today, especially compared to Atmos. They were OK in their day, but if your gonna mount speaker anywhere on/near/ the ceiling it’s worth going for Atmos layouts. As mentioned, front height is a supported configuration, but I’m not sure it’s really that good. To me that would be a difficult location to phantom image from, but is probably ok.

Cool link. I hadn’t realized how far forward the front heights actually go in 5.1.4. Somehow I was imagining closer to the seats.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Cool link. I hadn’t realized how far forward the front heights actually go in 5.1.4. Somehow I was imagining closer to the seats.

Well it depends. I don’t know how far you dove into that but I think it’s more about the angles from the LP than the measurements.


Oops. I forgot this white paper too. It’s kind of a walk down Dolby’s memory lane and talks about the evolution of SS. I enjoyed it.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-next-generation-audio-for-cinema-white-paper.pdf

 

[Drunkpenguin]

On my in ceiling i went 45 degrees in front of the mlp and 45 degrees behind. Sounds awesome.

 

[snakeeyes]

Well it depends. I don’t know how far you dove into that but I think it’s more about the angles from the LP than the measurements.


Oops. I forgot this white paper too. It’s kind of a walk down Dolby’s memory lane and talks about the evolution of SS. I enjoyed it.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-next-generation-audio-for-cinema-white-paper.pdf

Ya I’m going to be closer to 55 degrees than 45 degrees but I think it will work out. I should have some time on Friday to test out some spots before I punch thru for real.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

After hearing atmos, Im pretty sure as long as you are close it should be fine.

 

[snakeeyes]

After hearing atmos, Im pretty sure as long as you are close it should be fine.

There’s a bit of adjustment on the RSL 34E speakers themselves as well. Last time I was up in the attic space it was to add a bathroom fan and I crawled halfway across my house and the batteries on my flashlight died. Fun times! It was pitch black as I made my way back. LOL

 

[Drunkpenguin]

When I had my house built the electricians put 2 light bulbs in the attic with a switch. Life savers!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ya I’m going to be closer to 55 degrees than 45 degrees but I think it will work out. I should have some time on Friday to test out some spots before I punch thru for real.

Yeah that’ll be ok. Here’s a tip, lol. I used a rotozip bit for my dremel to cut my holes. Try to set the depth so you you don’t go through the drywall and into the plastic/vapor barrier/blow in insulation holder lol. I thought I had mine right but was just barely too deep on the first hole. I then had to tuck a garbage bag around the opening. After that I was probably a little shallow, and had to “bump” the disk I cut to get it to come out. Then I pushed and stretched the plastic a little bit to give the speakers a little room. Yay...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

When I had my house built the electricians put 2 light bulbs in the attic with a switch. Life savers!

Brilliant!

There’s a bit of adjustment on the RSL 34E speakers themselves as well. Last time I was up in the attic space it was to add a bathroom fan and I crawled halfway across my house and the batteries on my flashlight died. Fun times! It was pitch black as I made my way back. LOL

Headlight!

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah that’ll be ok. Here’s a tip, lol. I used a rotozip bit for my dremel to cut my holes. Try to set the depth so you you don’t go through the drywall and into the plastic/vapor barrier/blow in insulation holder lol. I thought I had mine right but was just barely too deep on the first hole. I then had to tuck a garbage bag around the opening. After that I was probably a little shallow, and had to “bump” the disk I cut to get it to come out. Then I pushed and stretched the plastic a little bit to give the speakers a little room. Yay...

Ya I’m going to put 4 cardboard cutouts up on the ceiling and get the placement mocked up and think about some more. I was thinking about getting one up on a ladder to play with the angle before I commit to cutting.

 

[snakeeyes]

Brilliant!


Headlight!

Ya I should do the headband headlamp and carry a flashlight too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ya I’m going to put 4 cardboard cutouts up on the ceiling and get the placement mocked up and think about it done more. I was thinking about getting one up on a ladder to play with the angle before I commit to cutting.

I did exactly that. I had my templates taped to my ceiling for a month before it was requested that I take them down lol. I also used a laser pointer to see if they cross crossed over my head. Like this...

Tricky with slanted ceilings.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

If you have blown in insulation I found a trick that helps minimize the mess.

 

[snakeeyes]

If you have blown in insulation I found a trick that helps minimize the mess.

Ok that looked too easy.

 

[snakeeyes]

I did exactly that. I had my templates taped to my ceiling for a month before it was requested that I take them down lol. I also used a laser pointer to see if they cross crossed over my head. Like this...

Tricky with slanted ceilings.

Guessing 4.5 feet in front and in back of my recliners might work for me. My ceiling is 8.5 feet high and flat. That’s my guess at least. And as far as width, do I go pretty wide with them?