American audio industry may suffer a blow..

[Forsooth]

I was going to respond to this poorly-formed drivel, and then it occurred to me that there's a good chance I'm getting lured into a trap! Gary, is that you spoofing me again? You almost fooled me with this Forsooth identity, until you re-used that exact same wording on climate change being a religion you used last time. Well, I'm not falling for this stupidity that no one in their right mind could believe again. It's too embarrassing. You're going to have to do better next time. I'm sorry your leftist positions don't win me over (I'll never believe a 50% income tax rate is fair, ever),and trying to show me how stupid my "conservative" friends are with parodies won't work. The conservatives are other people, get that through your misguided head.

Sorry, not Gary. But no need for you to respond. I think your "positions" are fairly clear by now.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

2 things I never want to discuss or argue - religion and politics.

So going back to the topic of this thread (I’m sure I missed a lot of the 18 pages), are there electronic brands that will be more affected ?

I know a lot of components are not made in China; a lot are made in Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, and other countries, right?

Won’t the companies that have factories in China just move their factories elsewhere?

 

[Forsooth]

 

[pewternhrata]

2 things I never want to discuss or argue - religion and politics.

So going back to the topic of this thread (I’m sure I missed a lot of the 18 pages), are there electronic brands that will be more affected ?

I know a lot of components are not made in China; a lot are made in Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, and other countries, right?

Won’t the companies that have factories in China just move their factories elsewhere?

I think the brands that will be most affected are the low no name brands, the el cheapo generic stuff. I'd like to think lg samsung denon sony pioneer, the 'big' players will lobby into better exemptions.

The other issue I see, is the difference between a 'component or part' (raw material) and a finished good. Both fall under different categories and codes. If your buying parts (or raw material) to make a finished product, it falls under a different tariff then if it's a flat out finished good or product. This is where a lot of confusion falls into place. Clothing falls under different codes than say electronics, or raw steel. If it is indeed a full out trade war with china, couldn't a lot be manipulated via country of origin? (Ok that's stretching the 'laws' but dont pretend it doesnt happen)

 

[John Parks]

Thanks for the thoughts! Right now, I'm trying to decide between two subwoofer models.

I'll be getting a pair of whatever I decide.

PSA S3010
Design Sealed, 2 side-firing drivers
Drivers Two 15" High Excursion
Amp 1920W RMS (4300W PEAK)
Enclosure CNC machined MDF
Frequency Response 17Hz-200Hz +/-3dB
Size (DxWxH) 18" x 24" x 22.5" with grilles
Weight 110 lbs
Warranty 5 years

SBS SB-4000
Design Sealed, 1 driver
Driver 13.5"
Amplifier 1200 watts RMS (4000+ watts peak)
Enclosure MDF
Freq. Response 19-310Hz ±3 dB
Dimension 18.3" (H) 17.8" (W) 20.9" (D)
Weight 102.3lbs
Warranty 5 years

Kind of leaning toward the PSA subs. We'll see. Oh yes, back to the AV trade wars. Tom Vodhanel of PSA mentioned this in recent message (on a different forum): "Now we have another couple-few pallets heading to Singapore this week. And we've just signed on a dealer for China too. You read that right..

Made in USA, sold in China. That's another pretty big order(bigger than Singapore for sure). And I think we have Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan coming up soon as well."

I 'preciate'cha @lovinthehd!! Keep those good thoughts coming.

I do not have a lot of experience with PSA or SVS, but I have a wonderful HSU ULS-15 MK2 and it is way beyond awesome! I would love an SVS SB-16 (I like sealed over ported for, you know, musical purposes) but believe it would be overkill in my room. What does this have to do with the trade wars we have been posting? absolutely nothing. Bass fracking rocks!

 

[KEW]

Maybe a fluke, but give Kahn's London credit for trying. Keep in mind that in NYC handguns are legal. There are about 2.5 to 5.0 MILLION handguns floating about in NYC (estimated),whereas handguns are banned in England, so really London is holding its own every month!

Please clarify this statement!
In what sense is London "holding its own" as compared to NYC's murder rate?
Why did you bring up handguns? What is the association you are trying to make?

PS - I double checked and the population of NYC and London is close to the same, so the murder rate in NYC is definitely much higher than London on a per capita basis as well (London @ 8.7 million and NYC @ 8.54 million were the numbers I found)!

 

[Forsooth]

Please clarify this statement!
In what sense is London "holding its own" as compared to NYC's murder rate?
Why did you bring up handguns? What is the association you are trying to make?

PS - I double checked and the population of NYC and London is close to the same, so the murder rate in NYC is definitely much higher than London on a per capita basis as well (London @ 8.7 million and NYC @ 8.54 million were the numbers I found)!

I think my post was clear, but here is the easy-peasy --

1. A lot of folks might expect a urban center with an ample supply of handguns to have a MUCH higher murder rate than one in which handguns are illegal, assuming similar population size.
2. I would bet that most of the murders in NYC are committed using handguns.
3. I would bet that, by far, most the murders committed in London are by knife-wielders.
4. An analogy: as far as killing efficiency is concerned, a handgun is to a Corvette as a knife is to a horse and buggy. (handgun:Corvette :: knife:horse & buggy )
5. A Corvette should be able to repeatedly lap the horse and buggy on the race track.
6. But in this case, the Corvette can't. The horse and buggy stay in the Corvette's rearview mirror no matter how fast it goes. In fact, given a chance, the horse and buggy will even pass the Corvette from time to time.
7. That is why I stated, "There are about 2.5 to 5.0 MILLION handguns floating about in NYC (estimated),whereas handguns are banned in England, so really London is holding its own every month!"

Again --> considering that NYC's murderers access weaponry that Ian Fleming's Bond would envy, while London's less fortunate murderers have to rely 5000-year-old technology, London Town''s murder rate is doing just fine, thank you very much.

You stated earlier, "However, in the first 6 months of this year, NYC totaled 141 murders and London totaled 80, or there were 75% more murders in NYC than London in the first half of the year..."

OK, true enough. But the "75% more" figure might be taken by some to indicate a very large difference in murder rates. But during the six-month period, only 61 more murders occurred in NYC, the Disneyland of Handguns, versus London, the Nuclear Winter of Handguns.

In 2017, NYC had 290 (NYT) homicides, while London had 131 (w'pedia). For convenience, let's say that each city has 8 million people. NYC's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 4, rounded up. London's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 2, rounded up.

For a couple of the largest cities on earth, meh, not enough difference to shake a stick at.

I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket if I knew I had only 2 or 4 chances in 100K of winning, nor would I spend time worrying about a cancer that only had a 2 or 4 out of 100K incidence rate.

So, yeah, London and NYC have about the same rates of murder-most-foul. The general drift of the conversation in which my post was originally submitted is that London crime is increasing rapidly of late (since 2015). But that is not part of the narrative that fake news sources are wont to make readily available.

 

[highfigh]

2 things I never want to discuss or argue - religion and politics.

So going back to the topic of this thread (I’m sure I missed a lot of the 18 pages), are there electronic brands that will be more affected ?

I know a lot of components are not made in China; a lot are made in Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, and other countries, right?

Won’t the companies that have factories in China just move their factories elsewhere?

"Just"? Where? Do all countries have similar work forces? What about logistics?

 

[highfigh]

I think my post was clear, but here is the easy-peasy --

1. A lot of folks might expect a urban center with an ample supply of handguns to have a MUCH higher murder rate than one in which handguns are illegal, assuming similar population size.
2. I would bet that most of the murders in NYC are committed using handguns.
3. I would bet that, by far, most the murders committed in London are by knife-wielders.
4. An analogy: as far as killing efficiency is concerned, a handgun is to a Corvette as a knife is to a horse and buggy. (handgun:Corvette :: knife:horse & buggy )
5. A Corvette should be able to repeatedly lap the horse and buggy on the race track.
6. But in this case, the Corvette can't. The horse and buggy stay in the Corvette's rearview mirror no matter how fast it goes. In fact, given a chance, the horse and buggy will even pass the Corvette from time to time.
7. That is why I stated, "There are about 2.5 to 5.0 MILLION handguns floating about in NYC (estimated),whereas handguns are banned in England, so really London is holding its own every month!"

Again --> considering that NYC's murderers access weaponry that Ian Fleming's Bond would envy, while London's less fortunate murderers have to rely 5000-year-old technology, London Town''s murder rate is doing just fine, thank you very much.

You stated earlier, "However, in the first 6 months of this year, NYC totaled 141 murders and London totaled 80, or there were 75% more murders in NYC than London in the first half of the year..."

OK, true enough. But the "75% more" figure might be taken by some to indicate a very large difference in murder rates. But during the six-month period, only 61 more murders occurred in NYC, the Disneyland of Handguns, versus London, the Nuclear Winter of Handguns.

In 2017, NYC had 290 (NYT) homicides, while London had 131 (w'pedia). For convenience, let's say that each city has 8 million people. NYC's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 4, rounded up. London's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 2, rounded up.

For a couple of the largest cities on earth, meh, not enough difference to shake a stick at.


So, yeah, London and NYC have about the same rates of murder-most-foul. The general drift of the conversation in which my post was originally submitted is that London crime is increasing rapidly of late (since 2015). But that is not part of the narrative that fake news sources are wont to make readily available.

Killers use a weapon of choice, or convenience and the reasons for killing are varied, but many are common- drugs and turf wars. You omitted vehicle ramming deaths which number fewer, but have killed a lot of people in London.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/world/europe/london-murders-knife-attacks-stabbing.html

How is a doubling of one city's murder rate 'similar'? Numerically, it's very close but it's still a 100% difference.

This link shows the 25 most dangerous US cities and NYC isn't even on it. Milwaukee, which is the area where I live is, however. If you want, I'll record some gunshot sounds for you- I live two blocks from the border and we hear this crap all the time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"Just"? Where? Do all countries have similar work forces? What about logistics?

These big companies were not born yesterday; they’ll figure that out.

Where? Same places other companies have factories - Malaysia (Yamaha),Vietnam (Denon, Marantz),Taiwan (Parasound).

I’m sure @M Code can give us a list of potential locations other than China to manufacture electronics.

 

[haraldo]

I think the way Trump goes on now, it‘s much more than the audio industry that will face a severe blow.... he already seemongly made US the laughing stock in UN, seems like he can only blow his own horn.....

mark my words.... I predicted before he entered oval office that he will end up with impeachment and jail sentence before his duties as president is over....

For US business to prosper this guy should go ....

What the world need is people that can build relations, not a bully ...

There was an analogy what Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Trump would make if they were locked into a room with lots of Lego, Gates and Bezos would make something incredibly innovative, while Trump would make a big wall / barrier to everyone else ....

 

[Forsooth]

I think the way Trump goes on now, it‘s much more than the audio industry that will face a severe blow.... he already seemongly made US the laughing stock in UN, seems like he can only blow his own horn.....

mark my words.... I predicted before he entered oval office that he will end up with impeachment and jail sentence before his duties as president is over....

For US business to prosper this guy should go ....

What the world need is people that can build relations, not a bully ...

There was an analogy what Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and Trump would make if they were locked into a room with lots of Lego, Gates and Bezos would make something incredibly innovative, while Trump would make a big wall / barrier to everyone else ....

1. "...laughing stock in UN". LOL! Trump OWNS the UN now.
2. "end up with impeachment and jail sentence" -- for what offense? Muh Russia? LOL!!
3. "For US business to prosper this guy should go" LOL!! Dude, wake up and smell the coffee. The economy is roaring, with record low unemployment for blacks, Hispanics, and women.
4. "...while Trump would make a big wall..." Haha. Gates and Bezos already have HUGE walls around their multi-million dollar mansions. Trump is gonna build one for the rest of us so that illegal immigration and child trafficking can be controlled and defeated!

 

[KEW]

OK, true enough. But the "75% more" figure might be taken by some to indicate a very large difference in murder rates. But during the six-month period, only 61 more murders occurred in NYC, the Disneyland of Handguns, versus London, the Nuclear Winter of Handguns.

I don't know what to say!
75% more should be taken by all to "indicate a very large difference in murder rates"!
75% is a large difference and we are talking precisely and exclusively about the numerically precise murder rates. How can you possibly contrive put a spin on it to change the reality of the numbers?

You mention availability of guns...
Whether the murders are done by gun or knife does not change the recorded number of murders. It is simple data.

I can agree that the murder rate in London would likely be different if guns were more readily available. However, that is a "what if" scenario that has no bearing on the actual murder rates of these two major cities.

London had 80 and NYC 141. That puts the NYC murder rate at just over 75% higher than London's.

To say that London's murder rate is "holding it's own" against NYC has no association with reality.

In 2017, NYC had 290 (NYT) homicides, while London had 131 (w'pedia). For convenience, let's say that each city has 8 million people. NYC's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 4, rounded up. London's 2017 murder rate per 100K is about 2, rounded up.

For a couple of the largest cities on earth, meh, not enough difference to shake a stick at.

What part of twice as high don't you understand?

I agree that I would (and do) feel relatively safe in either city. But just because the murder rate per capita is low in both cities does not change the fact that it is twice as high in NYC!

So, yeah, London and NYC have about the same rates of murder-most-foul.

You do realize that you are saying 2=4?

The general drift of the conversation in which my post was originally submitted is that London crime is increasing rapidly of late (since 2015). But that is not part of the narrative that fake news sources are wont to make readily available.

Your statement was:

London's crime rate has skyrocketed

And now you are saying it is disingenuous to say NYC's crime rate is substantially higher than London's, because they are both so low as to be irrelevant.
Don't you see the contradiction?

 

[Forsooth]

I don't know what to say!
LOL! You've never come up short yet, Mr. Exploding Head.

75% more should be taken by all to "indicate a very large difference in murder rates"!
75% is a large difference and we are talking precisely and exclusively about the numerically precise murder rates. How can you possibly contrive put a spin on it to change the reality of the numbers?
No, 75% is not a large differential when we're talking about such small numbers relative to behemoth populations. Making it easy for you: "This cookie contains 50 calories, while that cookie contains 88. Not really that much diff since your calorie limit is 2500, so just choose the one that tastes better." As I indicated, both the ground-level and the bird's eye views are valid for analysis. The data support both presentations. Gomment agencies often rely on the latter for reporting purposes. I did not say your perspective was erroneous, but neither is mine. Even Steven.

You mention availability of guns...Whether the murders are done by gun or knife does not change the recorded number of murders. It is simple data. I can agree that the murder rate in London would likely be different if guns were more readily available.
Yes, I believe that was my point...

However, that is a "what if" scenario that has no bearing on the actual murder rates of these two major cities. To say that London's murder rate is "holding it's own" against NYC has no association with reality.
Relax. It is OK if you disagree with my conjecture. After all, that is the nature of speculation. But you do agree that, given the hypothetical equal distribution of handguns, the murder rate disparities "would likely be different..." Thus, your condemnation of my hypothesis as having "no association with reality" seems, well, misplaced.

You do realize that you are saying 2=4?
No, I didn't. LOL! In fact, what I said was, "I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket if I knew I had only 2 or 4 chances in 100K of winning, nor would I spend time worrying about a cancer that only had a 2 or 4 out of 100K incidence rate." IOW, given the frame of reference I was using ("per 100K"),2 "or" 4 are very close numbers indeed, but I never said that 2 is equal to 4.

And now you are saying it is disingenuous to say NYC's crime rate is substantially higher than London's, because they are both so low as to be irrelevant.
Ah...no, I didn't say that...you do realize that MURDER RATE is not the same as CRIME RATE...because, you know, burglary, car theft, etc.? I did not make any observations on comparative NYC/London crime rates.

Don't you see the contradiction?
No, I did not contradict myself. Let me break it down for you.
"London's crime rate has skyrocketed" does not contradict "The general drift of the conversation in which my post was originally submitted is that London crime is increasing rapidly of late (since 2015)."
Do you not see how those two statements are entirely in agreement with each other? Here is the fount of some of your confusion:

• You and I discussed murder rates only in the two metropolises, not their general crime rates. You're confusing the two metrics.
• The conversation I referenced was commentary on the upsurge in London crime rates. (The specific example that I gave was the "astonishing" fact that London's murder numbers were, at least for a time, higher than NYC's (the left: how could that happen?? ). And, as you probably know, murder is a crime that will contribute to the overall crime rate.

 

[highfigh]

Guns are used because it's very difficult to stab someone who's across the street. It's also less personal- you don't need to actually touch them and get their stuff on you. It's a noisy, destructive weapon that is perceived as more of a threat than a knife, club or something similar because it's impossible to run away from a bullet, although it can be dodged. Also, if someone is inclined, someone with a gun and a handful of bullets can do a lot more damage than someone with a knife in less time.

 

[Forsooth]

Guns are used because it's very difficult to stab someone who's across the street. It's also less personal- you don't need to actually touch them and get their stuff on you. It's a noisy, destructive weapon that is perceived as more of a threat than a knife, club or something similar because it's impossible to run away from a bullet, although it can be dodged. Also, if someone is inclined, someone with a gun and a handful of bullets can do a lot more damage than someone with a knife in less time.

What's not to love about the 2nd Amendment? And libs would take it away in a NY minute if they could. Speaking of NY, look at the way 2A has been severely eroded in NYC by crippling gun laws. That is why the underground market thrives.

 

[pewternhrata]

Guns are used because it's very difficult to stab someone who's across the street. It's also less personal- you don't need to actually touch them and get their stuff on you. It's a noisy, destructive weapon that is perceived as more of a threat than a knife, club or something similar because it's impossible to run away from a bullet, although it can be dodged. Also, if someone is inclined, someone with a gun and a handful of bullets can do a lot more damage than someone with a knife in less time.

Reminds me of the stabbings in china at the train station a few years back.

 

[haraldo]

Time to take off pink sunglasses, which is the major real powerful country .... not US, but by all measures China... What do you think will happen when US goes into a trade war with the most economic powerful country in the world....?

I am no expert at all on this topic but I reckon that China will not suffer so much, but US will..... I guess people in the US will start losing their jobs over this....

An example, what will happen with Tesla's market share when this war starts .... and Chinese auto makers are getting fully up to speed... well, also Audi, BMW, VW, Opel Mercedes has a fully electric lineup... how many people in Tesla will lose their jobs because of Trump?

(This is pretty old but you see the point)

China's manufacturing output overtook that of the U.S. almost a decade ago. Its exports are more than a third larger as well...

Have a look at this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-18/who-has-the-world-s-no-1-economy-not-the-u-s

 

[pewternhrata]

Time to take off pink sunglasses, which is the major real powerful country .... not US, but by all measures China... What do you think will happen when US goes into a trade war with the most economic powerful country in the world....?

I am no expert at all on this topic but I reckon that China will not suffer so much, but US will..... I guess people in the US will start losing their jobs over this....

An example, what will happen with Tesla's market share when this war starts .... and Chinese auto makers are getting fully up to speed... how many people in Tesla will lose their jobs because of Trump?

China's manufacturing output overtook that of the U.S. almost a decade ago. Its exports are more than a third larger as well...

Have a look at this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-18/who-has-the-world-s-no-1-economy-not-the-u-s

It's almost a catch 22. The US has already lost jobs and continues to bc its soo much cheaper for production overseas. Businesses are in it for profits, of course, it's cheaper to manufacture overseas plain and simple. Now the decision that companies are going to make are not only based on cheap labor. The companies that chose to operate in china are going to have to find a way to adjust, and the big players will. There are constant changes that have to be made at the business end, this is just another one. I can only assume that the companies that want to stay 'in the game' will find ways to do so. Jobs will be lost, of course, and that's always going to happen. Jobs are also being created in US over this.

 

[haraldo]

It's almost a catch 22. The US has already lost jobs and continues to bc its soo much cheaper for production overseas. Businesses are in it for profits, of course, it's cheaper to manufacture overseas plain and simple. Now the decision that companies are going to make are not only based on cheap labor. The companies that chose to operate in china are going to have to find a way to adjust, and the big players will. There are constant changes that have to be made at the business end, this is just another one. I can only assume that the companies that want to stay 'in the game' will find ways to do so. Jobs will be lost, of course, and that's always going to happen. Jobs are also being created in US over this.

Maybe but US is starting to build walls and barriers to any other country as seen beneficial .... I am sure that in the long run this will benefit industries outside of the US, and for US companies to lay off people in the US and create production lines in other countries where as before it was in US ...

It is also going to make US made products more expensive, not exactly a benefit in a very tight global market ...

It's what I think ...