integra dtr-70.3 - (all integra receivers?) no gain change to preouts

[musicbefit]

confirmed with integra support. audyssey calibration and the stored "speaker distance" configuration - affect gain for speaker connections made to mains. However if you are using the preouts to amps -such is common when you use an amp to offoad driving the front speakers - the preouts have no level change. This seems to negate the audyssy calibration and other problems.
I have amps with no trim controls. i immediately noticed the speaker sound level dropped when connected to the amp via preouts.
i am not feeling very smart right now with 3 integra receivers and 5 amps to offload power needs. So , i ask "did you know integra changes gain on their speaker outputs but not their preouts? most folks say "no, i did not know that", or "oh", "oh, yes that is correct, checked the schematic", and oh, i have some other receiver that does not do that.(folks are local high end store, national store, and first line tech support at integra)
short term next step, sell the amps, live with the power integra provides and remain unhappy that i can't manually adjust gain to to preout simply by changing the speaker distance in the receiver config. Someone please agree with me that though i may have been confused am now assessing this correctly or confirm that i am still confused. (note i didn't really need the extra power anyway, just vanity power at my listening level)

 

[lovinthehd]

Did you re-run audyssey when adding the external amps to allow for the different gain structure? You would change levels with the speaker level adjustment, not with distance (which is delay), hard to believe your avr has no speaker level adjustments for manual tweaking in any case.

 

[Verdinut]

The purpose of pre-outs on an AV receiver is to allow the use of external power amps when someone needs more power output for whatever reason. Also, the fact is that most audiophile power amps don't have input gain/volume controls and the receiver being used as a preamp for the pre-out channels is required to control the output volume from the power amps.

If your AVR does not allow controlling of the volume out of external power amps, there is something wrong with it or it is badly designed. The pre-outs are useless! You would need to replace it with one of the Denon, Marantz or Yamaha receivers that has pre-outs. These have pre-out voltages which are controlled by the receiver's main volume.

 

[lovinthehd]

I did take a peek at your avr manual, seems after running audyssey you can check and/or change levels but didn't find another reference as to how to do that except for quick/temporary changes to sub/center levels (which go away on returning to standby, same as my Onkyo does).

 

[musicbefit]

thank you- you are correct - the setting Speaker Config/Level Calibration provides for changing output to individual speakers in increments of 0.5db. The information i have from Integra is this has "no effect on pre out". Now that you have me focused i will test to confirm, mistakes even with Integra support are possible, also, yes, I mis-spoke, it's not speaker distance (delay) as you pointed out it's "level calibration" that is relevant here. The choice exists to manual set this rather than use Audessey config - though again we agree this is "hard to believe" - has no effect on pre out. will test, thanks again.

 

[lovinthehd]

thank you- you are correct - the setting Speaker Config/Level Calibration provides for changing output to individual speakers in increments of 0.5db. The information i have from Integra is this has "no effect on pre out". Now that you have me focused i will test to confirm, mistakes even with Integra support are possible, also, yes, I mis-spoke, it's not speaker distance (delay) as you pointed out it's "level calibration" that is relevant here. The choice exists to manual set this rather than use Audessey config - though again we agree this is "hard to believe" - has no effect on pre out. will test, thanks again.

I'd re-run Audyssey to let the avr do it for you rather than manually, tho. Tweak it afterwards to taste if necessary. It will be different depending if using the avr amp or an external amp (not likely the external amp will operate at the exact same level). The pre-out levels should be affected by speaker level controls, tho. Most phone-in customer service for audio products is lame outside of very basic functions. Good luck.

 

[musicbefit]

this issue Resolved- In fact Integra "Level Calibration" modifies output level at Pre Out.
I verified this by configuring a speaker pair connected to an amp using Integra pro outs. Added +10.0 db to one speaker, saving the config. It was obvious the "Level Calibration" does modify the output level of the pre out. it would be expected that autocalibrate with Audyssey will use this as well. case closed.

one may expect there is a need to re-calibrate after adding and amp using pre out. As the amp will likely have a greater or lessor gain than the receiver resulting in higher or lower speaker volume when playing all channels sterero. In my case the front speakers actually were lower volume than surrounds when placing them on an external amp. No problem, can either autocalibrate with Audyssey or manually calibrate with Integra and lesson learned mis-communications happen and best to verify. Thanks again for encouraging me to to confirm.
Since i have multiple integra receivers and multiple amps in a whole house audio setup most frequently using all channel stereo listening mode and drawing more power than most listening modes, i think i will keep these amps around now that their integrated /use is verified. I just rebuilt my audio visual closet after having air conditioning supply and return provisioned - largely due to the heat these amps generate, ah the irony.

 

[lovinthehd]

this issue Resolved- In fact Integra "Level Calibration" modifies output level at Pre Out.
I verified this by configuring a speaker pair connected to an amp using Integra pro outs. Added +10.0 db to one speaker, saving the config. It was obvious the "Level Calibration" does modify the output level of the pre out. it would be expected that autocalibrate with Audyssey will use this as well. case closed.

one may expect there is a need to re-calibrate after adding and amp using pre out. As the amp will likely have a greater or lessor gain than the receiver resulting in higher or lower speaker volume when playing all channels sterero. In my case the front speakers actually were lower volume than surrounds when placing them on an external amp. No problem, can either autocalibrate with Audyssey or manually calibrate with Integra and lesson learned mis-communications happen and best to verify. Thanks again for encouraging me to to confirm.
Since i have multiple integra receivers and multiple amps in a whole house audio setup most frequently using all channel stereo listening mode and drawing more power than most listening modes, i think i will keep these amps around now that their integrated /use is verified. I just rebuilt my audio visual closet after having air conditioning supply and return provisioned - largely due to the heat these amps generate, ah the irony.

Glad you figured it out somewhat. Just consider each time you change amp configuration, whether using speaker terminals and the avr amps, or pre-outs or a combination of pre-outs and avr amps, you need to re-calibrate. As to heat, I highly recommend some cooling fans, will extend life of your gear. If you bought the old Integra with Audyssey hard to know if they updated the hdmi/network board issues on your gear (problem for many years of production, causing Onkyo/Integra to issue extended warranties expiring this year).