Epson Pro Cinema 4050 4K PRO-UHD Projector with HDR

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Anyone seen what this new projector can do?

Does the 4K picture (enhanced or Epson's "version of 4K") really look as good as some native 4K projectors, especially after 6 months of use when the light output on the native 4K projector goes down?

I think the Epson rep was saying this $2,400 projector uses the "same 3LCD lens technology" as their $80,000 Native-4K projector.

• 
  HDR High Dynamic Range and Rich Black Contrast — full 10-bit color output2 and a contrast ratio up to 200,000:1 deliver an extraordinary range of color and detail in both bright and dark scenes
• Advanced 3-Chip, 3LCD Technology — sophisticated parallel pixel processing and a state-of-the-art 3-chip architecture deliver amazing color accuracy, color brightness and color gamut
• Epson’s Advanced Projection Lens — state-of-the-art 15-element glass projection lens displays a bright, uniform image with virtually no hot spots or chromatic aberration
• L*a*b* Ultra Wide Color Gamut — delivers 100% of the 3-dimensional DCI-P3 color gamut4, the digital cinema standard, with 50% wider color gamut than Rec. 709
• 3-Axis Precision Motor — for powered focus, 2.1x zoom, up to ± 96% horizontal and up to ± 47% vertical lens shift, and 10 preset positions
• Delta Level Color Accuracy — low Delta E, for extremely accurate color reproduction
• 100% Balanced Color and White Brightness — 2,400 lumens of color and 2,400 lumens of white brightness3 for vibrant, rich color
• Smooth, Crisp Images and Transitions — 12-bit digital color processing chip with Frame Interpolation and proprietary Advanced Motion Control
• No Color Wheel — images are free from any distracting rainbow effect; balanced color and white brightness means no white segments
• Pro Cinema Kit – Features a three-year limited warranty (90 days on lamps), a ceiling mount, cable cover, and extra lamp for added installation flexibility.

 

[panteragstk]

From what I've read of them the resolution isn't what makes them so good, it's the color. HDR is a big upgrade and IMHO worth it. I'm looking to upgrade my perfectly working projector for the same reason.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

From what I've read of them the resolution isn't what makes them so good, it's the color. HDR is a big upgrade and IMHO worth it. I'm looking to upgrade my perfectly working projector for the same reason.

I'm fighting the urge right now.

So I'm looking for comments like, "Oh, no this Epson 4K HDR projector is NOT really that much better".

 

[panteragstk]

I'm fighting the urge right now.

So I'm looking for comments like, "Oh, no this Epson 4K HDR projector is NOT really that much better".

Good luck. They tend to get pretty good reviews. @BMXTRIX will probably tell you to get a JVC. That's my plan anyway.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Me and about a billion others would recommend JVC over Epson. But, I don't piss on Epson either. I think the 5040 has been a great projector for years, and their 4000 as well. It's very well reviewed and other than some serious power supply issues, the image itself has been outstanding. It's bright and vibrant with excellent colors.

But, yes, JVC has been doing things longer and if you can land a new JVC RS440, which was 'all new' for 2018, but barely better than the RS420, you should look into it as they may be had for about $2,500 right now from the right place. THAT is a pretty serious upgrade over some entry level models, and is really good as a solid first projector until native 4K is the norm.

I am wondering if the chips in the new Epsons are at all changed from the chips which have been used for the last few years. It does seem like there is all new HDMI processing in the mix, but from what I just read, it seems inconceivable that Epson has stuck with HDMI 1.4b bandwidth limitations. That is, it doesn't support 18Gbs HDR and HDMI, but the same limited 10.2Gbs HDMI that they have been using since the 5040 was released. Yeah, I can respect the solid image, but have to wonder if that information is even accurate. I actually hope I'm wrong on this and that they support HDR at the higher bit rates. Sorry you just bought your PS4 or XBox because you can't maximize the quality on your newly introduced 2018 projector. WHAT? Yeah, sorry about that.

JVC has been doing eShift and 4K for years now. This is basically Epson's second attempt. They really hit it big with the 5040, so this is very unlikely to be anything but a solid score as well. In a good theater though, I'm going to spend a bit more and advise as such if people can swing it.

Not sure, but I think JVC may have dropped all projectors anywhere near the $3,000 price point, so it may all be a ridiculous discussion once the RS440 models are gone. Yet, if Epson dropped the ball on full bandwidth HDMI, then DLP and LCD will be a tough call for the next few years.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Me and about a billion others would recommend JVC over Epson....

I hear you.

What about the Sony VW285ES Native 4K vs JVC E-Shift-4K ?

One thing that concerns me with both the SONY and JVC is the 1500-1800 lumens vs the Epson's 2400 lumens.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm actually holding out for 8K Projectors.

Plenty of time for my light-canon BenQ PJ to retire.

 

[TheWarrior]

One advantage Epson has is that they make their own lamps so the cost is significantly lower to replace. But they make great products across the board!

I hear you.

What about the Sony VW285ES Native 4K vs JVC E-Shift-4K ?

One thing that concerns me with both the SONY and JVC is the 1500-1800 lumens vs the Epson's 2400 lumens.

JVC just unveiled their new full 4k models to replace the existing E-shift. And while I am perfectly content with the entry level Epson pj, I am totally committed to projection now because of it, so this JVC news is what I have been waiting for!

Oh and you will never notice that difference in lumens! (unless of course you keep all your shades open)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

JVC just unveiled their new full 4k models to replace the existing E-shift. And while I am perfectly content with the entry level Epson pj, I am totally committed to projection now because of it, so this JVC news is what I have been waiting for!

No seriously, aren’t you wondering that if you bought a 4K or E-Shift-4K PJ now, Epson will come out with an 8K eShift HDR PJ for $3,000 in 2 years.

 

[TheWarrior]

No seriously, aren’t you wondering that if you bought a 4K or E-Shift-4K PJ now, Epson will come out with an 8K eShift HDR PJ for $3,000 in 2 years.

Considering how slow 4K has been to expand, I am not worried about 8K. It sounds cool, but I really think it's just another hi-tech teaser that is being shown way before its time. And thats not to say the tech is incapable, but that the consumer is simply unwilling.

Well, except for you of course!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Considering how slow 4K has been to expand, I am not worried about 8K. It sounds cool, but I really think it's just another hi-tech teaser that is being shown way before its time. And thats not to say the tech is incapable, but that the consumer is simply unwilling.

Well, except for you of course!

If the price is right!

I mean who would have thought 3 years ago they could pay under $2K (street price) for a 4K-eShift-HDR-2400-lumen projector ?

In 3 years, why not pay under $3K for an 8K-eShift-HDR-3000-lumen projector?

Well, at least I think the trend is in the right direction. If we don't get the 8K PJ, then the 4K PJ will have improvements (HDMI 2.1, HDR-18 GB, etc.).

 

[panteragstk]

If the price is right!

I mean who would have thought 3 years ago they could pay under $2K (street price) for a 4K-eShift-HDR-2400-lumen projector ?

In 3 years, why not pay under $3K for an 8K-eShift-HDR-3000-lumen projector?

Well, at least I think the trend is in the right direction. If we don't get the 8K PJ, then the 4K PJ will have improvements (HDMI 2.1, HDR-18 GB, etc.).

Calm down buddy...8k has to exist first. Let the projector folks get HDR right and we can talk about future stuff.

Man, you moving to Atmos has you all sorts of excited about new tech. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I'd settle for native 4k with proper HDR for under $4k. That'd be perfect.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Calm down buddy...8k has to exist first. Let the projector folks get HDR right and we can talk about future stuff.

Man, you moving to Atmos has you all sorts of excited about new tech. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I'd settle for native 4k with proper HDR for under $4k. That'd be perfect.

The SONY Native-4K HDR PJ is under $4K at Best Buy.

I bet the BB manager could shave a few more hundred dollars off.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?st=sony+4k+hdr+projector&_dyncharset=UTF-8&id=pcat17071&type=page&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=&sp=&qp=&list=n&af=true&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

 

[panteragstk]

The SONY Native-4K HDR PJ is under $4K at Best Buy.

I bet the BB manager could shave a few more hundred dollars off.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?st=sony+4k+hdr+projector&_dyncharset=UTF-8&id=pcat17071&type=page&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=&sp=&qp=&list=n&af=true&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960&keys=keys

My brother-in-law actually works there. If I was going to get it I'd probably have him buy it for me. Not sure how much off it'd be. I don't think PJs have that much markup.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I hear you.

What about the Sony VW285ES Native 4K vs JVC E-Shift-4K ?

One thing that concerns me with both the SONY and JVC is the 1500-1800 lumens vs the Epson's 2400 lumens.

The 285ES is certainly worth consideration, but doesn't quite hit the contrast of the JVC. At $4,000+ right now, it's a solid $1,500+ more than the RS440 or an Epson, so ... yeah. It also is 10Gb/s HDMI on the inputs.

Brightness is not much of a concern on a well calibrated projector these days with a screen size of 110" to 133" or so. With a recommendation of about 18 lumens per square foot, 1,400 calibrated lumens is more than enough and actually tends to be plenty for 3D at the larger screen size.

The Epson does well when there is more ambient light in the room, but that is very circular as it also tends to fight the contrast the projector itself can deliver and often is not a 'best quality' rating, but a maximum brightness rating. Still, Epson certainly delivers brightness in a way that tends to rival others for those who need it, which is why everyone should consider their own setup, desires, requirements, and wishes. I'd rather have all these choices than not so many.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 285ES is certainly worth consideration, but doesn't quite hit the contrast of the JVC. At $4,000+ right now, it's a solid $1,500+ more than the RS440 or an Epson, so ... yeah. It also is 10Gb/s HDMI on the inputs.

Brightness is not much of a concern on a well calibrated projector these days with a screen size of 110" to 133" or so. With a recommendation of about 18 lumens per square foot, 1,400 calibrated lumens is more than enough and actually tends to be plenty for 3D at the larger screen size.

The Epson does well when there is more ambient light in the room, but that is very circular as it also tends to fight the contrast the projector itself can deliver and often is not a 'best quality' rating, but a maximum brightness rating. Still, Epson certainly delivers brightness in a way that tends to rival others for those who need it, which is why everyone should consider their own setup, desires, requirements, and wishes. I'd rather have all these choices than not so many.

My screen is 150” and the distance from the PJ to screen is about 25FT.

After 6 months and especially 12 months on the lamp, I think I notice reduction in brightness.

So that’s the reason I’m concerned with brightness since I don’t plan on changing lamps every 6 months or 12 months, but more like 2 or 3 years.

1400 lumens is fine with a brand new lamp. But how many lumens is that after 12 months?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are there any consumer PJ with higher than 10 GB/s HDMI?

 

[BMXTRIX]

My screen is 150” and the distance from the PJ to screen is about 25FT.

After 6 months and especially 12 months on the lamp, I think I notice reduction in brightness.

So that’s the reason I’m concerned with brightness since I don’t plan on changing lamps every 6 months or 12 months, but more like 2 or 3 years.

1400 lumens is fine with a brand new lamp. But how many lumens is that after 12 months?

A 150" diagonal screen is about 66 square feet. If you are shooting for a target light on screen of 18 lumens per square foot you need about 1200 on screen lumens. If you take it back to 15 lumens per square foot, you need about 1,000 lumens (almost exactly).

If your screen has any gain, you can work with fewer lumens from the projector for similar results.

The question is what compromises go with any projector purchase, and what does your setup need to achieve the results that you desire. That's always the case. The brighter Epson models do a great job on larger screens and rooms with higher ambient light. Your screen, for that very reason, is larger than typical and if you don't have any gain, nor a darkened room, then the Epson is very likely the best choice.

It's an issue in my setup as well since I have a 161" diagonal screen with 1.3 gain. There are times my projector looks a bit dim on it and I have to take some care in the sources that I run up to it. But, brighter movies and sports still look good from the BenQ W1070 which delivers similarly at about 1,200 lumens peak, and likely a fair bit less.

Brightness and our sensitivity to light is not a straight line from all that I have heard. If you double brightness it doesn't appear twice as bright as our eyes adjust to it quickly and in a dark room can even find it overwhelming. But, as that room brightens up, you need the lumens to maintain an acceptable image. For example, in commercial installations, the target goal should be about 80 lumens per square foot in a standard florescent lit board room. Five times what home theater calls for. The goal in a board room? 12:1 contrast ratio.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Are there any consumer PJ with higher than 10 GB/s HDMI?

Yes, the JVC models are. I believe most of the newest 4K DLP models are as well. The specifications will include support of 2160p/60 resolution/framerate with 10-bit color. This is something the Epsons have been missing.

Optoma doesn't seem to tout this feature, but I haven't heard otherwise. Sony I have specifically heard does not support this. Epson I have specifically heard does not support this. JVC advertises this support on their front page about their models.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Upgraded for 2018, JVC's DLA-RS440 remains the industry's most affordable custom install D-ILA projector. It delivers stunning picture detail and an unprecedented value, thanks to JVC's exclusive 4K e-shift5 technology. It accepts native 4K 60P (4:4:4) content through full speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 compatible inputs and up-converts existing 1080P sources to 4K precision.

https://eu.jvc.com/pro/projectors/reference-projectors/DLA-RS440/

Features

• 1800 Lumens with High Power Lamp (PK-L2615U) 265W High / 200W Normal
• 40,000:1 Native Contrast Ratio
• Intelligent Lens Aperture increases dynamic contrast ratio to 400,000:1
• 6th generation 0.7-inch D-ILA devices
• e-shift5 4K Precision 3840 X 2160 Projected Image —Upgraded for 2018
• Dual Full Speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 Compatible Inputs Compatible with full spec native 4K signals such as 4K60p 4:4:4 4K60p 4:2:2/36bit and 4K24p 4:4:4/36bit Compatible with 4K streaming devices and UHD BD content
• Advanced HDR (High Dynamic Range) usability with brighter, more detailed HDR content—Upgraded for 2018
• Multi Pixel Control (MPC) with selectable 4K/2K Mode MPC works with 4K60P (up to 4:4:4) signals
• Clear Black processing
• Low latency mode. Reduces gaming/PC frame delays
• Motion Enhance (2D, 3D, 4K) with Clear Motion Drive
• sRGB and x.v. Color space
• Darkness and lightness correction
• Lens memory function memorizes 5 positions for focus, zoom and shift. Maintains constant height for 2.35, 1.85, 1.78 on same screen.
• Screen Mode Presets for different screen material (143 memory positions)
• Convergence Correction - 1/16th Pixel Increments (2 memory positions)
• Simplified 6-Axis Color Management System
• Control4 SDDP (Simple Device Discovery Protocol)
• Manual Gamma Control included with JVC Calibration Software V10
• Advanced 3D Crosstalk Cancellation Control
• Accepts all modern 3D formats (Blu-ray, side-by-side, top-and-bottom)
• 3D Anamorphic Mode
• Parallax adjustment for fine tuning 3D effect
• The Reference Series use in Video- and Grading applications, for high grade Video suites, or personal screening rooms.