Help! Mold in daughter's apartment!

[KEW]

My daughter is a junior at University of Georgia.
This year she is renting a fairly new house (I'd guess less than 12 years old) with two friends.
It is a house, but think of it more as an apartment because it is in a complex of small houses built for student housing. She has been sick with sinus issues (now infection) since a day or two after she moved in.
Yesterday she told me about black mold on the AC register and she said that she put in a request to maintenance to get it fixed about 2 weeks ago!

She put in an emergency request yesterday and we are waiting to see if we get a response today. If not I intend to get involved as the very upset dad and want to be intelligent in my approach.

I'd appreciate any insights "the hive mind" might offer!

Specific points I can think of:

1) Any comments on causal evidence linking mold to sinus? Timing lines up, but it is not like she never gets sinus infections. Unfortunately she has my and her mom's genes and we both have sinus issues. Is there some kind of test kit to find out what type and concentration of mold is in a room? (maybe like a radon test kit, but a "petri dish" to grow mold)

2) Legal responsibility - I feel like I need to relocate her. But really want to get the landlord to fix the issue. Do I have any legitimate leverage in the way of their liability to provide a healthy living environment for my daughter?

3) What does it take to fix the issue? If they come and wipe the mold off the register, that obviously will not fix the problem. I hope one of you knows what to do to fix this. I don't want them to apply a "band-aid fix" only for my daughter to be out of sorts for much of the semester.

4) What are the ramifications of my getting the issue resolved (properly and quickly) and sending them a bill?

5) This is really a suck situation. My daughter decided on this place with her friends (they showed them a different unit with the same floor plan) 4 months ago. Housing is at a premium and trying to relocate mid-semester is a horrible prospect!

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have!

 

[KEW]

Nevermind! (I thought I had found a test kit)
This is for contact (in other words, you wipe the mold onto the test kit).
I am looking for something that evaluates the air quality, if it exists!
IOW, if they come and clean the surfaces, I cannot test to see if the air is good. There may be serious accumulations of mold further into the unit!

 

[TLS Guy]

I found a mold test kit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016YSY8XQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Figure we'll run one this week-end and save the others for after remediation!

That is a first step, so you know what you have.

Now the problem with these molds is that they are quite allergenic. An AC register is a bad place to have it. Now most will not react to the mold. However quite a few do and there is a cluster of reactions, all the way to hemorrhagic lung disease which is very bad. Anyhow respiratory problems especially of the asthma related variety are common enough that continuous exposure is not advised.

So since this seems to be related to AC, common, then the duct work and furnace needs expert examination and decontamination of the relevant parts with close follow up.

Now if the landlord drags his feet, then get in touch with the city/state public health department or both. Any well run public health authority will take this seriously. HVAC contamination has the potential to do the most harm, for obvious reasons.

Now as to your daughter problem, this could be related. However most who think they have sinus problems actually don't. There are a host of diagnoses that can cause similar symptoms. The only real way to know if it is a sinus infection or not is a CT of the sinuses.
Sinusitis has a lot to do with problems with the sinus drainage channels. Treatment is largely by endoscopic surgery now rather then medication, which are spectacularly useless.

I hope this helps.

 

[TheWarrior]

I dealt with this in CA, but I don't know what kind of laws GA has for renter protection. In CA, after the landlord pays for an inspection, they are obligated to put the family up while the property is cleaned and not return until passing inspection.

However, Mold in an HVAC system is no easy task to clean. And I have had very few respectable landlords, so my experience says GET OUT! The trouble will be in retrieving her security deposit. Assuming the law is on her side, a strongly worded demand letter, sent certified with CC (your lawyer), cite any applicable laws, will hopefully prompt the landlord to just return the deposit.

But, if this is black mold, the spores can get on EVERYTHING. So she will need to be very dutiful in sterilizing absolutely everything she owns in that house, once it is out of the house!

 

[TLS Guy]

Nevermind! (I thought I had found a test kit)
This is for contact (in other words, you wipe the mold onto the test kit).
I am looking for something that evaluates the air quality, if it exists!
IOW, if they come and clean the surfaces, I cannot test to see if the air is good. There may be serious accumulations of mold further into the unit!

I would not get excited yet. Spore forming fungi are ubiquitous. They are in the outside air and in ALL homes.

So test where you can see it that will give the highest concentration. Look for other areas and especially if there is leaky plumbing. If you do the original test it will tell you what you have.

From your description it would seem the furnace needs attention what ever you have.

An air test is complex and involves drawing air over a greased slide. Most of these spores are not easily cultured and you have to have enough to see under the microscope. Unless you can get a culture you can not really pick out the dangerous ones, like aspergillus.

So my advice for what it is worth, probably not much is to: -

1). Test from where you see it, that is where the highest concentration will be.

2}. The HVAC needs professional attention, no matter what. You just don't want any high concentration of any potentially dangerous organism in HVAC.

3). I would only advise air testing if a dangerous species is found, as part of the follow up.

The most dangerous and common infestation of HVAC is not by a spore producing mold, but Legionella. That is not visible and there is no odor. You find that when people start turning up in your ICU very ill. I was involved in one of those affairs.

 

[KEW]

Thanks for the follow up Dr. Mark.

The thing about these apartments is you have no idea of who was there before you and what they may have had going on.
The image of the mold she sent me showed some on the register and some on the wall around it (where it would "leak" if the register was closed) so the mold that is visible seems to be taking advantage of the condensate.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

This happened to a cousin of mine. She sued the apartment complex and won for an un-known to me amount of money.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the follow up Dr. Mark.

The thing about these apartments is you have no idea of who was there before you and what they may have had going on.
The image of the mold she sent me showed some on the register and some on the wall around it (where it would "leak" if the register was closed) so the mold that is visible seems to be taking advantage of the condensate.

Well it is water that drives the engine in these cases. I don't think there is much relevance to who was there before, unless they were getting surfaces wet they should not have.

My question now to you is where are the registers? Are they on the floor, the wall, or the ceiling?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the impression that you are telling us that water (condensate) is dripping out of the register onto a porous surface like sheet rock dry wall.
If that is so, then that would be a very bad situation that should be corrected immediately.

If water is dripping out of the registers, then the HVAC was improperly designed, and or installed.

 

[KEW]

Well it is water that drives the engine in these cases. I don't think there is much relevance to who was there before, unless they were getting surfaces wet they should not have.

My question now to you is where are the registers? Are they on the floor, the wall, or the ceiling?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have the impression that you are telling us that water (condensate) is dripping out of the register onto a porous surface like sheet rock dry wall.
If that is so, then that would be a very bad situation that should be corrected immediately.

If water is dripping out of the registers, then the HVAC was improperly designed, and or installed.

They are ceiling registers.
My guess on what is happening is the register is being cooled such that after a shower the humidity forms condensate on the metal register.
Additionally, if the register is closed, the air pressure results in leaks around the register periphery, which cools the textured ceiling surface (especially the points that project into the room) and, again condensate is forming.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

Just to add to my above statement. If I were you Id get the health department involved ASAP. If you have the means you might even consult a lawyer. They are responsible for fixing this. In my cousins case she was in a very large apartment complex. A rather new one and rather nice actually in a great part of town. They were also sick all the time. Many of the tennants started discovering mold and somebody started the ball rolling with a suit. That complex was eventually shut down for a couple years. All the tennants were given money because none of their belongings could come home with them. Furniture and everything had to be trashed. I don't know what she ended up getting but I think it was fairly decent.

 

[TechHDS]

The last apartment I lived in had black mold in the walls, in the AC air intake. Made me sick, watery eyes all the time. Constant coughing, landlord did nothing about it. So I moved, within a month of living in the new place, eyes stopped watering up sinuses cleared up coughing stopped. So my suggestion is she should move.

Mike

 

[KEW]

I dealt with this in CA, but I don't know what kind of laws GA has for renter protection. In CA, after the landlord pays for an inspection, they are obligated to put the family up while the property is cleaned and not return until passing inspection.

However, Mold in an HVAC system is no easy task to clean. And I have had very few respectable landlords, so my experience says GET OUT! The trouble will be in retrieving her security deposit. Assuming the law is on her side, a strongly worded demand letter, sent certified with CC (your lawyer), cite any applicable laws, will hopefully prompt the landlord to just return the deposit.

But, if this is black mold, the spores can get on EVERYTHING. So she will need to be very dutiful in sterilizing absolutely everything she owns in that house, once it is out of the house!

I did some research and federal law does not address mold. GA law manages to avoid any specific concern over mold for landlord/tenant scenarios. The exception is the tourist industry - Hotels legally cannot have mold. One site was pretty much saying you are SOL if you have mold issues in a rental unit.
The NOLO legal site makes the point that no matter what a contract might say, there is an "implied warranty of inhabitability" in GA.
They site two approaches often used:
"Rent witholding" if the unit is uninhabitable, and
"Repair and Deduct" where I would implement the repairs then deduct the bill from the rent payment.
Either of these would be subject to litigation, and, unfortunately, I cannot take action until the landlord establishes a negligent behavior. Hopefully they will take care of things, but I am pretty sure I'd get it done quicker than they could.

 

[KEW]

Just to add to my above statement. If I were you Id get the health department involved ASAP. If you have the means you might even consult a lawyer. They are responsible for fixing this. In my cousins case she was in a very large apartment complex. A rather new one and rather nice actually in a great part of town. They were also sick all the time. Many of the tennants started discovering mold and somebody started the ball rolling with a suit. That complex was eventually shut down for a couple years. All the tennants were given money because none of their belongings could come home with them. Furniture and everything had to be trashed. I don't know what she ended up getting but I think it was fairly decent.

What state is your cousin in? Since this is not under federal domain I suspect how it is handled depends on where it is.
The example of "success" getting compensated in GA is where the TV station was involved in reporting on mold issues involving several people in a Sandy Springs Apartment complex! IOW, televised bad publicity was a driving factor for the rental agency!
At the same time, I would think any judge would have an issue telling someone they had to accept a situation which is hazardous to their health.
I do have the benefit of this being a UGA student rental, so image is important. If word gets out that they are putting our kids at risk without addressing the problem, these upscale accommodations could fall fast.
However, right now, I have no reason to expect that they will not fix the issue!...I just want to be prepared should they prove negligent!

I spoke with the rental company, "Landmark" and they said they would investigate it by Friday. She said it should be sooner, but Friday is the promise date. My fear is "investigation" will be looking at it and wiping it off without any effort at true remediation. I am thinking that is not a solution.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

This was California, about 15 years ago.

It could always turn out to be non toxic too tho. We tore down a wall at work and found mold. We called someone out to inspect it and they said it wasnt the bad kind, whatever that means. We bleached it away, sealed the leak and moved on.

 

[KEW]

The last apartment I lived in had black mold in the walls, in the AC air intake. Made me sick, watery eyes all the time. Constant coughing, landlord did nothing about it. So I moved, within a month of living in the new place, eyes stopped watering up sinuses cleared up coughing stopped. So my suggestion is she should move.

Mike

Yeah, I'm trying to get her to move out until we know what type of mold is present. If it turns out to be serious, I'll move her or make sure they properly eliminate the hazard.

 

[TechHDS]

Yeah, I'm trying to get her to move out until we know what type of mold is present. If it turns out to be serious, I'll move her or make sure they properly eliminate the hazard.

KEW, my eyes would tear up so bad to the point I had to keep a washcloth near me. Now I do have allergies, the building (apartment) is old, use to be a 4 bay gas station back in the 60’s. Than it was converted to Apartments so no telling what’s in that building. Down here in Louisiana rent leases are landlord friendly, renters don’t have many rights so I just moved.

Mike

 

[TLS Guy]

They are ceiling registers.
My guess on what is happening is the register is being cooled such that after a shower the humidity forms condensate on the metal register.
Additionally, if the register is closed, the air pressure results in leaks around the register periphery, which cools the textured ceiling surface (especially the points that project into the room) and, again condensate is forming.

There are two possibilities then. Water should NOT drip out of a register no matter what the humidity.

1). The AC unit is over sized and or the air flow over the coils is too low.

2). This is more likely. The furnace has not been cleaned and the condensate tray is full wet debris and not draining away to the house drain properly. These units need cleaning thoroughly every year.

In this part of the world where AC is used about half the year, and the heating gets used heavily the other half, pretty much everyone has their HVAC professionally cleaned and serviced yearly.
To service the burners etc, requres a licensed technician. So I can not touch mine. A home owner did in the Twin Cities a few years ago. He did it incorrectly and the furnace blew up and killed a neighbor. He got a long prison sentence for negligent homicide.

This is especially important here as we use propane, which is much more corrosive to the burners, than natural gas.

The service man is due here Monday, to clean the unit before winter.

If it is either of the causes I cited, and I strongly suspect one or the other, then after correction the ducts need professional cleaning.

The mold on the wall needs treating with bleach and then repainting. Painting is important and will prevent recurrence as long as the condensate coming out of the vent is stopped.