Thinking about replacing my VTF-3 MK4.

N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
Got it for $300, mint. I pushed it hard for the first time on Avengers: Age of Ultron. I think it went past max excursion- it made a sharp popping sound. Driver and surround is fine. My SVS PB 1000 handled it fine. I've read the DSP technology in the SVS amp keeps it from going beyond it's abilities to minimize distortion. I'm thinking about a PB 2000 for this reason.

I'm not sure on the amps in other brands like Rhythmik or PSA. The Monolith 12 is out of stock right now, for a while. Otherwise I'd get it. Also not sure if the MK5 has a better amp than the MK4- I sure like the tuning capabilities and the idea of a 15 for the price of other brands' 12s.

Thoughts?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The earlier VTF-3s with the 12"s could be overdriven if you pushed them hard enough, at least in 'max extension' mode. In max output mode, I don't think they could be overdriven. I don't think its worth it to spend a chunk more money here, especially when you got a pretty good deal for that one.

I would try to find the sub's limits at this point, so at least you know how hard it can run before getting into trouble. I would start by running some test tones with something like this. Push the gain on the tone generator to max. Then, with the volume on the sub or AVR at a moderate volume, set the sub to a deep frequency, like say 20 Hz, gradually raise the volume until you hear some mechanical stress, or something like a tapping noise. Try it with other deep tones, like 16 Hz and 25 Hz. There is no point doing it below 16 Hz though, since that is below the sub's tuning frequency.

Try that testing in both max extension mode and max output mode. Remember when you are running the VTF-4 mk4 in the 'max extension' setting on the amp plate, at least one port MUST be plugged, or else it won't be filtered from over-excursion properly. If won't hurt the sub to have any of the ports plugged when the sub is set to 'max output' mode. Don't run test tones at loud levels for long durations, that is very hard on the amp and driver, not just for the VTF-3 but any subwoofer.

Assuming that you had a port plugged with the sub was over-driven, there are a couple things you can do to prevent this from happening again, if you still want to play the sub loudly. Like I said, you could set it to 'max output' mode, which will raise the high-pass filter and limit its excursion more. Set the 'Q' control to 0.3, that will also reduce deep frequency excursion.

The newer VTF-3 that uses the 15" looks to be pretty bulletproof, if the 15h and ULS-15 mk2 are anything to go by. I was not able to overdrive the VTF15h mk2 or ULS-15 mk2 no matter how how hard I pushed them- and that is groundplane testing with an extremely high input signal and amplifier gain maxed out, which much harder than any real world contect would ever push these things. Pretty much impossible to overdrive. The older VTF-3s and older Outlaw LFMs can be overdriven when set to max extension mode, but they do have tp be pushed very hard. The other subs you listed should all be bullet proof as well, SVS and Monolith especially. BUT with any variable tuning sub, you need to have the filter set to match the port tuning, ie., you have to set the amp to match the plugged ports. This is true for Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, whatever. The only variable tuned subs where it doesn't matter are the Monolith THX subs and the Outlaw X13-Ultra. You could have them set to whatever and run them as hard as you want and they will not be susceptible to harm. That's nice and all, but there are also disadvantages to that approach as well.
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
The earlier VTF-3s with the 12"s could be overdriven if you pushed them hard enough, at least in 'max extension' mode. In max output mode, I don't think they could be overdriven. I don't think its worth it to spend a chunk more money here, especially when you got a pretty good deal for that one.

I would try to find the sub's limits at this point, so at least you know how hard it can run before getting into trouble. I would start by running some test tones with something like this. Push the gain on the tone generator to max. Then, with the volume on the sub or AVR at a moderate volume, set the sub to a deep frequency, like say 20 Hz, gradually raise the volume until you hear some mechanical stress, or something like a tapping noise. Try it with other deep tones, like 16 Hz and 25 Hz. There is no point doing it below 16 Hz though, since that is below the sub's tuning frequency.

Try that testing in both max extension mode and max output mode. Remember when you are running the VTF-4 mk4 in the 'max extension' setting on the amp plate, at least one port MUST be plugged, or else it won't be filtered from over-excursion properly. If won't hurt the sub to have any of the ports plugged when the sub is set to 'max output' mode. Don't run test tones at loud levels for long durations, that is very hard on the amp and driver, not just for the VTF-3 but any subwoofer.

Assuming that you had a port plugged with the sub was over-driven, there are a couple things you can do to prevent this from happening again, if you still want to play the sub loudly. Like I said, you could set it to 'max output' mode, which will raise the high-pass filter and limit its excursion more. Set the 'Q' control to 0.3, that will also reduce deep frequency excursion.

The newer VTF-3 that uses the 15" looks to be pretty bulletproof, if the 15h and ULS-15 mk2 are anything to go by. I was not able to overdrive the VTF15h mk2 or ULS-15 mk2 no matter how how hard I pushed them- and that is groundplane testing with an extremely high input signal and amplifier gain maxed out, which much harder than any real world contect would ever push these things. Pretty much impossible to overdrive. The older VTF-3s and older Outlaw LFMs can be overdriven when set to max extension mode, but they do have tp be pushed very hard. The other subs you listed should all be bullet proof as well, SVS and Monolith especially. BUT with any variable tuning sub, you need to have the filter set to match the port tuning, ie., you have to set the amp to match the plugged ports. This is true for Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, whatever. The only variable tuned subs where it doesn't matter are the Monolith THX subs and the Outlaw X13-Ultra. You could have them set to whatever and run them as hard as you want and they will not be susceptible to harm. That's nice and all, but there are also disadvantages to that approach as well.
Man, I've always appreciated your knowledge! Thanks for the input:) I've got some things to play with.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Shadyj is an expert pretty much on HSU. You are in good hands. I keep trying to convince my GF to approve a HSU ULS15 in her living room. (System#3 that I’m doing) The review here keeps me thinking a sealed 15 would be fun. Rythmik E15 is another one I am looking at but a little more than I want to spend right now. :)
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
So it turns out my sub was in Max Output Mode (eq2 with both ports open). I did take my Q down to 0.3 from 0.5, and went to Sealed Max Output Mode. My thought was that the room gain would compensate for the deeper extension (1750ft³) given I also have a PB 1000 in there. I'm not sure if my thinking is proper there, but music sounds a lot better and the LFE tracks sound great with no evidence of stress on the driver:D
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I don't think that sub should be over-driving when it is set to EQ2. It's possible that the former has been knocked out of alignment, and that can make the driver bottom out a lot sooner than it is supposed to. You could plug a port on 'max output' mode (eq2), and that will over-damp the response and give extra-protection to the driver while still getting port output. Just make sure not to run the sub in 'extension' mode (eq1) with both ports open.
 
N

NorCalRP

Full Audioholic
I don't think that sub should be over-driving when it is set to EQ2. It's possible that the former has been knocked out of alignment, and that can make the driver bottom out a lot sooner than it is supposed to. You could plug a port on 'max output' mode (eq2), and that will over-damp the response and give extra-protection to the driver while still getting port output. Just make sure not to run the sub in 'extension' mode (eq1) with both ports open.
Going to try that tonight. I'm definitely happy to know I can plug both for the benefit provided for music:D
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Shadyj is an expert pretty much on HSU. You are in good hands. I keep trying to convince my GF to approve a HSU ULS15 in her living room. (System#3 that I’m doing) The review here keeps me thinking a sealed 15 would be fun. Rythmik E15 is another one I am looking at but a little more than I want to spend right now. :)
Stop just stop.... Join the dark side of the force and get some FV18's. Become the Jedi you were truly meant to be. Lol
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Stop just stop.... Join the dark side of the force and get some FV18's. Become the Jedi you were truly meant to be. Lol
I know, right? I’m going to have to finish the new floors before I buy a sub anyhow. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Going to try that tonight. I'm definitely happy to know I can plug both for the benefit provided for music:D
Music does not benefit from a sealed design. Sometimes a typical sealed response plays nicer with room acoustics, but that has more to do with the room than the sub, and you can also EQ a ported response to do the same thing anyway.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Stop just stop.... Join the dark side of the force and get some FV18's. Become the Jedi you were truly meant to be. Lol
Why stop there? The FV25HPs are significantly more powerful. And there are subs out there even more powerful than those.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Why stop there? The FV25HPs are significantly more powerful. And there are subs out there even more powerful than those.
The ONLY thing that stopped me was the FV18's just barely fit where I needed them to go. My 2 best spots in that room for them perfectly. Otherwise?..... I would have gotten the FV25HP's!!!!! Lol
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top