Projector Newb

[timmywit]

Hello All,

First post here. I started digging into projectors and realized this would be an awesome addition to my basement. I think I have found the right screen which will be a perfect fit (Elite VMAX2 150Inch). Initially I was checking out the LG 80HUKA. But, I realized that for a fixed setup, I could probably get a better value since I don't really need the portability. I would like to go laser, unless someone talks me out of it . Also, I currently have a ceiling fan mounted ~9ft from the wall that would be a perfect spot to mount the projector (goodbye ceiling fan).

I realize there are a ton of options out there so I should probably mention budget. Since I was already looking at the LG, I would consider that my cap (~$3K). But, if I can get something solid for less, I'd be a happy dude! I'm just looking to watch some football and the occasional movie so I want it to be nice but it doesn't have to be the best. Any thoughts/opinions greatly appreciated!

Tim

 

[TheWarrior]

I'm about 18 months into my 'projected' life - will not be buying any more TV's for the foreseeable future!

So lets go thru this:

- How did you decide on a 150" screen? Are you aware that each projector has a unique lens and throw distance - meaning you cannot arbitrarily choose the mounting location AND the screen size?

- Light Control - how much control do you have? Amazon provides very affordable blackout shades, FYI. But a perfectly dark room is not essential assuming you can keep sunlight off the screen itself. This, combined with how far off axis your seats will be, is what will help determine your ideal screen material/gain.

- Is the room itself in the 'show-ready' condition you would like it to be for entertaining, or do you anticipate further renovation that might move things around?

- Laser lighting is relatively new, and would not be my first choice simply due to the cost of entry. How LG made it portable AND reliable, is not a question I'd gamble $3k with.

- 4K projection is also a relatively new thing, with few TRUE 4K options available. I personally am holding out for JVC to bring True 4K to market, as opposed to their pixel shifting technology - not because I am fully invested in 4K content, just simply wanting the most for my money. If 4K is here to stay, why would I buy a PJ that can't output a full 4K image?

The market is a bit crazy right now, as 8K keeps being teased while 4K still sees limited availability. Do your research and remain patient, I am not so sure this is the ideal time to buy given the number of annual sales you can anticipate!

 

[timmywit]

I'm about 18 months into my 'projected' life - will not be buying any more TV's for the foreseeable future!

So lets go thru this:

- How did you decide on a 150" screen? Are you aware that each projector has a unique lens and throw distance - meaning you cannot arbitrarily choose the mounting location AND the screen size?

- Light Control - how much control do you have? Amazon provides very affordable blackout shades, FYI. But a perfectly dark room is not essential assuming you can keep sunlight off the screen itself. This, combined with how far off axis your seats will be, is what will help determine your ideal screen material/gain.

- Is the room itself in the 'show-ready' condition you would like it to be for entertaining, or do you anticipate further renovation that might move things around?

- Laser lighting is relatively new, and would not be my first choice simply due to the cost of entry. How LG made it portable AND reliable, is not a question I'd gamble $3k with.

- 4K projection is also a relatively new thing, with few TRUE 4K options available. I personally am holding out for JVC to bring True 4K to market, as opposed to their pixel shifting technology - not because I am fully invested in 4K content, just simply wanting the most for my money. If 4K is here to stay, why would I buy a PJ that can't output a full 4K image?

The market is a bit crazy right now, as 8K keeps being teased while 4K still sees limited availability. Do your research and remain patient, I am not so sure this is the ideal time to buy given the number of annual sales you can anticipate!

Thanks for your detailed response!

- I chose the 150"size simply because it's the largest I can comfortably fit in my space. I am aware of the lens throw distance. I was hoping there might be a recommendation that would fit both variables and that screen is suitable for short throws.

- I have great light control in the room. The main thing I'm thinking of moving is my A/V rack which is one of the downfalls of the project. Right now I have all the cabling out of site behind the wall. With this I will need to use some cable trays across the ceiling for the speaker wire and HDMI runs.

- That's good to know about the laser and 4K. I may end up looking into something a little cheaper just to get my foot in the door and hold me over for a few years. Maybe by the time 4K content comes around I'll be ready for an upgrade. Sounds like I have some reading to do! Thanks again for all your advice!

 

[TheWarrior]

Thanks for your detailed response!

- I chose the 150"size simply because it's the largest I can comfortably fit in my space. I am aware of the lens throw distance. I was hoping there might be a recommendation that would fit both variables and that screen is suitable for short throws.

- I have great light control in the room. The main thing I'm thinking of moving is my A/V rack which is one of the downfalls of the project. Right now I have all the cabling out of site behind the wall. With this I will need to use some cable trays across the ceiling for the speaker wire and HDMI runs.

- That's good to know about the laser and 4K. I may end up looking into something a little cheaper just to get my foot in the door and hold me over for a few years. Maybe by the time 4K content comes around I'll be ready for an upgrade. Sounds like I have some reading to do! Thanks again for all your advice!

Happy to help!

There are often big discounts to be found online with entry/mid level Epson (epson makes their own lamps = lower cost replacements) and Sony projectors. The user manuals will tell you how to calculate their throw distance. Lots of decent picture quality to be had in the $1000-$1500 range and I also bought during a March Madness sale that threw in a choice of mount and a 20' HDMI.

It is unlikely you will find one that can fill 150 inches from 9 feet, ultra short throw are scarce and expensive for equivalent picture quality.

But you might also consider doing a very smooth white enamel paint job on the wall and just sticking with the lower cost PJ for now - it's been working great for me!

My wife wants to have it in our bedroom, so I am literally just waiting for JVC to provide an equivalent RS540 that is true 4K to upgrade and move the Epson 2045 upstairs. Sony has a couple available now, but I hear nothing but compliments of the blacks with JVC, so I am biased, yet patient.

 

[timmywit]

Happy to help!

There are often big discounts to be found online with entry/mid level Epson (epson makes their own lamps = lower cost replacements) and Sony projectors. The user manuals will tell you how to calculate their throw distance. Lots of decent picture quality to be had in the $1000-$1500 range and I also bought during a March Madness sale that threw in a choice of mount and a 20' HDMI.

It is unlikely you will find one that can fill 150 inches from 9 feet, ultra short throw are scarce and expensive for equivalent picture quality.

But you might also consider doing a very smooth white enamel paint job on the wall and just sticking with the lower cost PJ for now - it's been working great for me!

My wife wants to have it in our bedroom, so I am literally just waiting for JVC to provide an equivalent RS540 that is true 4K to upgrade and move the Epson 2045 upstairs. Sony has a couple available now, but I hear nothing but compliments of the blacks with JVC, so I am biased, yet patient.

I have been researching the past few hours and starting to rethink the 150". 120" is still huge and I could go that route without rearranging anything especially if I go with UST. 120" is also a more reasonable viewing distance and better overall fit for my area.

At this point I'm leaning more toward the UST with an appropriate ALR screen (Aeon CLR or Viewsonic BCP120). One of the big selling points for the UST is I won't have to run cable trays which is a plus. Not that I mind running them, I just prefer keeping it as clean as possible. I think I would be pretty happy with a PX800HD or GT5500. I'm leaning toward the PX800HD. It has lower lumens but a better contrast ratio (100,000:1 vs 25,000:1). I think the GT5500 would have better daytime viewing but since I have solid control of the lighting, I think I would value that contrast ratio more. This gets me in the door without dropping a ton on the projector especially since I have no plans on viewing any 4K content in the near future (have had a 4K tv for 2 years and everything I watch is 1080p). If I did decide I want to upgrade to 4K at some point, I'll still have a great screen to pair it with.

Thanks again for all the advice; got me pointed in the right direction. I'll sleep on it for a few days before I pull the trigger and I'll be sure to update the thread once everything is installed

 

[TheWarrior]

I have been researching the past few hours and starting to rethink the 150". 120" is still huge and I could go that route without rearranging anything especially if I go with UST. 120" is also a more reasonable viewing distance and better overall fit for my area.

At this point I'm leaning more toward the UST with an appropriate ALR screen (Aeon CLR or Viewsonic BCP120). One of the big selling points for the UST is I won't have to run cable trays which is a plus. Not that I mind running them, I just prefer keeping it as clean as possible. I think I would be pretty happy with a PX800HD or GT5500. I'm leaning toward the PX800HD. It has lower lumens but a better contrast ratio (100,000:1 vs 25,000:1). I think the GT5500 would have better daytime viewing but since I have solid control of the lighting, I think I would value that contrast ratio more. This gets me in the door without dropping a ton on the projector especially since I have no plans on viewing any 4K content in the near future (have had a 4K tv for 2 years and everything I watch is 1080p). If I did decide I want to upgrade to 4K at some point, I'll still have a great screen to pair it with.

Thanks again for all the advice; got me pointed in the right direction. I'll sleep on it for a few days before I pull the trigger and I'll be sure to update the thread once everything is installed

Thanks and please do! We don't often hear about people around here opting for UST so it would definitely be a great help to anyone else looking for you to share the results.

I agree with your assessment of the two models. We do also have some product distributors floating around the forum, I know @DigitalDawn can provide good deals with Stewart or Screen Innovations (their Zero Edge Pro AT will be used when I move the Epson upstairs, and a Stewart will replace the projection wall)

 

[timmywit]

You are going to have a beast of a setup with that screen and the future PJ you're targeting!

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the PX800HD, Aeon CLR combo . From what I learned today, there are a few screens on the market that are designed to solve some of the problems associated with UST's and the Aeon is one of them. They are fairly new but the reviews I have found on them are overall positive. Apparently I'm not allowed to post the link where I pulled this but just to be sure I'm giving credit, it comes from residentialsystems.com (received a message that my post count is too low. I guess that's to deter someone from creating an account just to advertise).

"Ultra short throw (UST) projectors are rapidly gaining ground in this market. UST projectors present the advantage of being so close to the screen material that it’s impossible for someone to walk between the projector and screen (the biggest pet peeve of projection systems). Because UST projectors spread out their light signal from an off-axis angle of incidence, they won’t work with a regular ALR material. In addition to filtering horizontally off axis light, CLR material rejects up to 95 percent of overhead light as well. They use an angular serriform microstructures to present what is commonly mistaken as a +100-120-inch flat-panel display at a small fraction of the cost one would pay to actually have a 100-inch flat panel installed in their home. This opens the channel for integrators to access a customer base that was previously priced out of the market."

There is a nice youtube review of the Aeon CLR paired with the GT5500 but again I can't post the link here.

It will probably be about 2 weeks before I get everything delivered and set up. Can't wait!

 

[TheWarrior]

Well that was quick!

There is quite a bit of collective knowledge around here so if you have any questions during install - this is the place!

Also, you'll be able to post links (and the pics of your install) once you have a few more posts....

Good luck!

 

[BMXTRIX]

There is nothing wrong with Viewsonic with UST and they have one of the better reviews and one of the few true UST products on the market. Be aware that if your room has a white ceiling, you really don't have much light control.

Also, be aware that if you don't have other ambient light, you have no reason to get a UST specific screen and it is just a waste of money. That is, you are rejecting ceiling lights that don't exist and it will impact image quality in doing so, most often causing sparklies on the screen which are not-normal.

The other caveat is the UST projectors not only require very specific placement, but often have issues with top-shelf focus and image uniformity. This is because the bottom of the screen may be 10" from the lens, while the top of the screen may be 5' from the lens. This requires a specifically designed lens with extremely high quality control along with higher than typical build control for consistent high quality results. Generally, longer throw and lens shift will deliver a higher quality image overall than UST. Even short throw projectors have issues with this.

Certainly, careful placement is a must due to the requirements for image accuracy and even the frame of the screen can become an issue if it gets in the way of the sharp projection angle.

But, the Viewsonic is well reviewed and if I were going short throw, they would be on my short list!

If I were to be replacing my projector today, then I would opt for the JVC RS440 at about $3,000 for sure. While it isn't the same resolution as the cheaper DLP 4K models, it is of higher quality all across the board, hands down.

 

[timmywit]

Well that was quick!

There is quite a bit of collective knowledge around here so if you have any questions during install - this is the place!

Also, you'll be able to post links (and the pics of your install) once you have a few more posts....

Good luck!

Thanks! I look forward to sharing pics when it's all done

 

[timmywit]

There is nothing wrong with Viewsonic with UST and they have one of the better reviews and one of the few true UST products on the market. Be aware that if your room has a white ceiling, you really don't have much light control.

Also, be aware that if you don't have other ambient light, you have no reason to get a UST specific screen and it is just a waste of money. That is, you are rejecting ceiling lights that don't exist and it will impact image quality in doing so, most often causing sparklies on the screen which are not-normal.

The other caveat is the UST projectors not only require very specific placement, but often have issues with top-shelf focus and image uniformity. This is because the bottom of the screen may be 10" from the lens, while the top of the screen may be 5' from the lens. This requires a specifically designed lens with extremely high quality control along with higher than typical build control for consistent high quality results. Generally, longer throw and lens shift will deliver a higher quality image overall than UST. Even short throw projectors have issues with this.

Certainly, careful placement is a must due to the requirements for image accuracy and even the frame of the screen can become an issue if it gets in the way of the sharp projection angle.

But, the Viewsonic is well reviewed and if I were going short throw, they would be on my short list!

If I were to be replacing my projector today, then I would opt for the JVC RS440 at about $3,000 for sure. While it isn't the same resolution as the cheaper DLP 4K models, it is of higher quality all across the board, hands down.

I typed a response but unfortunately, it's getting flagged as spam and won't let me post it. I don't even have a brand in there so I'm going to have to break it up into multiple responses to figure out where the problem is. Sorry, can't think of a better way but at least this helps me get my post count up so I can post pics later .

I do have a bit of ambient light and occasionally I will have the projector on with the windows open during the daytime.

I realize there are some benefits of traditional over the UST's but for me, the pro's outweigh the cons. I'm not a fan of cable trays and there is also not a power source anywhere nearby. So, I couldn't even come off of a nearby outlet. It would have required some heavy electrical work tearing apart my ceiling and traversing ceiling joists. Sure, it's doable but not worth it to me. If I was already wired and set for a ceiling mount, I would see no reason to not go traditional.

 

[timmywit]

When it comes time to upgrade my family room tv, if I consider a PJ at that time, I will be in the same situation. Not only with the electric but I also have 12' ceilings in that room. That room has a lot of ambient light so getting this screen/PJ combo for my basement also gives me a good chance to get a feel for whether or not it would be a good fit for a future family room upgrade.

 

[timmywit]

I did put some consideration into placement. When I was thinking 150", it was going to be off-center but one of the bigger reasons to switching to the 120" is to centralize it. But, I have some drywalled ductwork in the ceiling to contend with. With that, I only have 82" floor to ceiling to work with so all things considered, I need it to sit 12" or less off the floor. I needed to either fabricate or purchase something at the correct height. What I ended up going with is actually an RV step stool. It's not the most elegant solution but if they were to make a stand for this, I can't imagine it being any different. The platform is the right size, it has a non-skid surface and non-skid feet.

Thanks for your input

Tim

edit: everything posted so I guess my initial response was just too long

 

[timmywit]

Well, I got everything set up except the screen. I received an e-mail today from the place I ordered from to let me know they don't actually have it in stock and noone will have it until Mar '19. They offered me a Darkstar eFinity for $3300 but that is out of budget and seems like overkill.

So now I'm targeting the BCP120 but it doesn't seem like anybody (reputable) has those in stock either. There's one place that claims to have 21 of them but online reviews say to steer clear and frequently mention lengthy delays receiving their product. So, it seems they get a little careless with the truth about their inventory. There is someone on Amazon claiming to have 10 NIB and letting them go for $500/ea. It goes for $1600 elsewhere so if something's too good to be true..... I might just order it from B&H and wait it out; should be about a month.

I definitely need a screen. It looks like my wall is rolling on the top left. I played with the keystone and all the corner adjustments but I'm pretty sure my wall just sucks. You'll see in the pictures I still have the tv outlet there and holes in the walls from some shelves I had mounted.

This is sorta my "do-everything" place so I think the UST will really be good for that. When I have company, there's a lot of walking around down there because this is the bar area. I also homebrew so you'll see my little setup and grain mill there so obviously a lot of walking around on those days.

I snapped a few iphone pics with the lights on and one with lights off. Like I said, the wall is all jacked up but it looks like it will be a bit before I can get the screen in place .

edit to add my first impressions: out of the box this thing is very focused and the colors are vibrant. Unfortunately I can only compare it to televisions since I'm a PJ newb but I think I will be very happy with this when I get a proper screen.

I can see some of the light getting reflected on the ceiling that the UST's are infamous for especially with ambient light. It's not a huge deal but I feel like if the light that is getting reflected there could get diverted to my peepers, the image would be that much better so I think the appropriate screen could add some value.

I think these RV step stools are really UST stands being sold for a less important purpose . It really is an ideal platform for the UST to sit on.

 

[TheWarrior]

FYI Many projectors are not even close to being color calibrated out of the box. With or without a calibration disc, if your eyes are reliable then familiar movies etc should be sufficient to dial in the colors if that should be an issue for you.

That looks like a minimal amount of light reflecting on the ceiling - for the rest of us that have their PJ 8+ feet away, theres a lot more light being reflected!

So when will the next batch finish fermentation?

 

[timmywit]

FYI Many projectors are not even close to being color calibrated out of the box. With or without a calibration disc, if your eyes are reliable then familiar movies etc should be sufficient to dial in the colors if that should be an issue for you.

That looks like a minimal amount of light reflecting on the ceiling - for the rest of us that have their PJ 8+ feet away, theres a lot more light being reflected!

So when will the next batch finish fermentation?

Good to know! As soon as I get the screen in I'll get it calibrated. Also, once I get the screen situation figured out, I'll be sure to report back.

It has been a bit since I brewed but I'm planning on next Saturday so a few weeks after that it will be ready

 

[TheWarrior]

Good to know! As soon as I get the screen in I'll get it calibrated. Also, once I get the screen situation figured out, I'll be sure to report back.

It has been a bit since I brewed but I'm planning on next Saturday so a few weeks after that it will be ready

Don't get me wrong, your eyes will only get you so far with calibration, but to avoid disappointment, it should just always be assumed that you'll need to calibrate the colors for your room/lighting/preferences etc.

I have always wanted to try home brewing, have a buddy that does it, I just still have not gotten around to it - having a celiacs carrying wife does not help either, and while ciders are fine, just don't think I'll put the effort into brewing them!

Well, you're in trouble now... You've got multiple results to be reporting back with!!

 

[timmywit]

Don't get me wrong, your eyes will only get you so far with calibration, but to avoid disappointment, it should just always be assumed that you'll need to calibrate the colors for your room/lighting/preferences etc.

I have always wanted to try home brewing, have a buddy that does it, I just still have not gotten around to it - having a celiacs carrying wife does not help either, and while ciders are fine, just don't think I'll put the effort into brewing them!

Well, you're in trouble now... You've got multiple results to be reporting back with!!

Actually I would say the wife’s celiac is all the more reason to dive into it. Gluten free beers are hard to come by so why not craft your own? Thats one of my favorite things about the hobby; being able to brew something you can’t otherwise get your hands on.

Hopefully I have the screen on order. There’s a place called Focused Technology that appears to have the BCP120 in stock but after the last order, I won’t believe it until I get tracking #.

 

[timmywit]

Finally got the screen in and I'm happy to report the picture is great and it's a perfect fit! The only time I notice that blur in the corner is when I have the Mac connected. You can see in the pic there is a slight blur up there on the apple logo. Oddly enough, there isn't a blur on the other side. I don't tend to stare at the apple logo so I think I'll be ok with that; just thought it was worth mentioning. The only other downside to this PJ I have noted so far is that it can be quite noisy which I have read on other reviews as well. It's not a deal breaker but you would notice it during quiet/silent scenes. The install of the screen wasn't bad at all. A buddy and I knocked it out in under 2 hours. I took a few shots with ambient light and one in the dark. There really is considerably less light being rejected to the ceiling IMO.

The screen ended up getting drop shipped from Viewsonic. I guess it's standard for places to not stock items like this? The Fedex guy showed up yesterday with a ~10' long pallet. Luckily he was nice enough to let me unpack it and he took that thing with him

Thanks again @TheWarrior for getting me on the right track! I'm going to be super happy with this. An added bonus that I hadn't considered is I can use the Playstation Move with the UST. I'm not a gamer but the Move is about the only thing I actually do like to play. Disc golf is pretty glorious at 120"!

 

[TheWarrior]

Glad you're enjoying it! That picture is far crisper than what I get from the Epson 2045 on my ohsonotperfectlypainted wall - but of course that price was a toe-dip in the pool!

But it is Mission Accomplished in terms of it completely persuading my wife to embrace projection, so yeah, JVC better make me happy with what they could unveil this week!

Did you happen to grab a spare lamp at purchase? I do not know the hour rating for yours, but I was happy to have a spare right when I wanted it because friends were coming to town. The lamps don't just die, they dim slowly. I think I hit almost 150% of expected lamp hours until I decided to swap it out, just to have a fresh, bright image to show off.

Oh, if you enjoy racing at all, Gran Turismo on a giant screen is AWESOME! They now have several Formula One cars too if you desire to experience Light-speed.