Noob building home theater

[Mhkpilot]

Hello everyone,

My family just purchased a home we will be renovating, and a home theater is in the plans. I'm not an audio nerd (meant as a compliment) by any stretch, but I do enjoy movies so here we are. The space in question is not designed to be a theater, nor will it be exclusively a theater as it will double as my den, but it's the space I'm left to work with so structural modifications at this point are not possible. The room in question is an almost square 16’10” x 19’3” and has 8’ ceilings, has 4 windows on one wall, a bathroom and closet on another wall, 2 doors on a 3rd wall and a bare wall on the 4th (see attached pic). Some other things to consider are we will be using an L-shaped leather couch (10’x10’) as the primary seating area, and I have a 50” plasma tv I use to play video games on which I would like to keep and use.

Right now I'm thinking that the bare wall will be where I will mount the tv with a retractable screen to come down over it when we want to watch movies, with the bathroom and closet behind us. I will be starting from scratch when it comes to purchasing equipment, and my budget is around $5,000 (give or take). At this point I'm thinking of a 5.1.2 audio system but that’s as far as I’ve gotten on research and am open to suggestions on particular systems, need advice on wired vs. wireless, floor materials and any other advice I can't think of or are too ignorant to ask about.

The one roadblock I'm running into is my wife. She is hesitant on dropping thousands of dollars on audio/visual equipment that may be obsolete in 5-10 years and would rather divert that $ into building materials: better windows, better HVAC unit, better roof tiles, etc. I don't blame her concern, but on the other hand realize that this will always be an issue. Any suggestions on how to minimize waste due to foreseeable technology would also be greatly appreciated to help bolster my argument when it comes time to slapping down the cash.

Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions.

 

[Good4it]

WAF (wife approval factor) is something most of us have to deal with. No easy answer.

 

[2channel lover]

Hello everyone,

My family just purchased a home we will be renovating, and a home theater is in the plans. I'm not an audio nerd (meant as a compliment) by any stretch, but I do enjoy movies so here we are. The space in question is not designed to be a theater, nor will it be exclusively a theater as it will double as my den, but it's the space I'm left to work with so structural modifications at this point are not possible. The room in question is an almost square 16’10” x 19’3” and has 8’ ceilings, has 4 windows on one wall, a bathroom and closet on another wall, 2 doors on a 3rd wall and a bare wall on the 4th (see attached pic). Some other things to consider are we will be using an L-shaped leather couch (10’x10’) as the primary seating area, and I have a 50” plasma tv I use to play video games on which I would like to keep and use.

Right now I'm thinking that the bare wall will be where I will mount the tv with a retractable screen to come down over it when we want to watch movies, with the bathroom and closet behind us. I will be starting from scratch when it comes to purchasing equipment, and my budget is around $5,000 (give or take). At this point I'm thinking of a 5.1.2 audio system but that’s as far as I’ve gotten on research and am open to suggestions on particular systems, need advice on wired vs. wireless, floor materials and any other advice I can't think of or are too ignorant to ask about.

The one roadblock I'm running into is my wife. She is hesitant on dropping thousands of dollars on audio/visual equipment that may be obsolete in 5-10 years and would rather divert that $ into building materials: better windows, better HVAC unit, better roof tiles, etc. I don't blame her concern, but on the other hand realize that this will always be an issue. Any suggestions on how to minimize waste due to foreseeable technology would also be greatly appreciated to help bolster my argument when it comes time to slapping down the cash.

Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions.

Audio...the wife is a little off base here. A great set of speakers can easily last as long as an HVAC system or longer in some cases. I just replaced B&W speakers that were 20 years old and they still sound pretty good.

Where she is closer to being right is movie surround formats, but you're essentially talking about one pc of equipment...the AVR or Prepro

Video...I'm not has heavily invested in this area, so your projection screen, etc. is probably more than what I would do here, but this is one area that some others can help...I would be fine with an LED 75" in a room that size.

Wired or wireless...if at all possible, hard wire everything. If you ever start streaming movies...ethernet is as close as you will get to the true marketed download speed.

Sounds like a fun project...Good luck with it.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

to add to what 2cl said - yes speaker is where should spend most of the budget - they make the biggest impact on sound quality and as mentioned above - passive speakers, unless abused, tend to last decades
In terms of subwoofers, I personally think that HSU value/quality is nearly unmatched, but should also check out SVS and Rhythmic subs. a Newcomer and worth considering are new Monoprice THX subs
Honestly, you could do worse than getting this 7.1 or 5.1.2 package:
Hybrid 3 HP - 7.1 Package with CCB-8
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid3hp-CCBpkg.html
Ascend Audio is another brand you should check out closely.

 

[snakeeyes]

The tv on the longest solid wall on left makes sense. Drapes on the windows already? What percentage movie vs music listening? Convincing the wife might start with agreeing on a budget together. If this is your den, then money is the only issue? You can have a large sub or 2 and she won’t mind? If 5k to 6k, I would go 5.2.4 with nice dual subs (HSU, SVS, Rythmik, Monolith) and nice bookshelf speakers (SVS Ultra, Paradigm Premier, Focal, Revel, Canton, etc). Ceiling RSL 34e in ceiling. Rear speakers you could go cheaper. Receiver Denon 4400 or Yamaha 2070. Good luck!

 

[shadyJ]

Agreeing with other comments. Quite a few audio components can last a very long time if cared for. Speakers, amplifiers, can last decades. Processors, on the other hand, will probably go obsolete within 10 years. If you want a lasting system, look at decent speakers, subwoofers, and amplifiers for longevity. For a processor, unless you want Atmos or DTS-X, look at an Outlaw Model 976 or Emotiva MC-700. These should be serviceable components, but they are going to be replaced eventually. I would only go for an Atmos or DTS-X surround system if you can accommodate ceiling speakers. If you can't, I would just stick with a base 7.1 system.

If you are really interested in longevity, I would just get some bookshelf speakers, since they have a lot more flexibility in placement. Add to those a couple good subwoofers. Lots of good choices here, Outlaw Audio, RBH Sound, Hsu Research, SVS, Monolith Monoprice, to name just a few. I could go on. For amplifiers, look at Outlaw Audio, Monoprice Monolith, Emotiva, and there are others.

 

[Mhkpilot]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

2channel, a 75” lcd is a good idea, but as a gamer plasma can't be beat and as you know, obsolete. The blacks are superior and I tend to sit close to the screen (10’ away) and my 50” is perfect for this. I can’t put 2 screens on the same wall, so a projector with a retractable screen seems to solve that problem. I could put a 75” LCD tv on the left wall and mount my 50” plasma on the bottom wall between the doors and get a gaming chair I could put in front when I'm using it and put the chair back in the closet when I'm not...(scratching my chin)

Snake, drapes WILL be on the windows, or blackout shades, yes. I'd say 90% movies, 10% music. Yes, money is the only issue.

Shady, yes, I can accommodate ceiling speakers/Atmos and was planning on getting/installing 2...could do 4 but the room isn’t very big and thought that might be overkill.

 

[snakeeyes]

If you are cutting speakers in the ceiling then do all four. Then you have the full experience. 2 will be just enough fun to regret not doing 4.

 

[KEW]

Since your emphasis is on HT (not so much music), I'd go with atmos. The people In know who have it think it is a very significant improvement!
HT obsolescence is really up to you! My thinking is get a good current system. Any additional screen resolution is like reducing distortion from 0.01 to 0.005 - it measures better but you are not going to experience the difference! A current $5000 HT is still going to be nice 10 years from now and whether or not you upgrade it in 5-10 years and if so, which components you upgrade is entirely up to you. Once gear starts dying, that will often recommend moving to the next generation of technology.
If you are planning to live there a long time, you want to do the renovations right! The important thing is to have a place where you and your family can unwind/relax/do a brain dump from the day (as I think of it). For that you can get away with your 50" and a good stereo as it may make sense to put money into the refurb of the home today and build your HT showroom when you are no longer making decisions on how to renovate. If I was in your shoes, that would appeal to me, because I would actually enjoy the process of detailing out the HT more, once the decisions about the renovation are out of the way.
In the context of home renovation, $5000 really isn't much.
The important thing is to communicate well with your wife and present the HT as a family thing (especially if you have/plan kids). When I was young, Disney presented a movie every Sunday and I bet half of america's families got together to watch them every Sunday night! Propose something like that; the idea of a family tradition/gathering which might even extend part way into teenage years will help sell it to the wife! And if you defer building the real HT until later, make sure she knows you are doing it for the family and home so it is not a fresh topic of debate when the time to follow through comes.
If she sees the HT as your excuse to go into isolation and escape into gaming, she will always resist putting money into making it a better place. If that is a point of contention, negotiate/set time limits.

That was a bit of an incoherent ramble! Obviously I don't know your details, but food for thought, or flush it, as seems fit to your specifics.

 

[snakeeyes]

Curious to see the rest of the renovations such as the other rooms. Assuming there is another room that is the living room, is there another TV there with it’s own surround sound? You might consider improving 2 rooms for the $5k. Just an idea.

 

[jinjuku]

Parts Express has their Dayton line of inwalls that would be great for HT and not bust the budget. Where I would spend for HT is a decent processor and the subs.

 

[Mhkpilot]

Snake, you are right, I will do 4 ceiling speakers for the very reason you mentioned. Not worth thinking "I shoulda..." down the road. The overall home renovation will add 750sf to a current 3,000sf house and includes a new roof, addition which will be our master bed/bath, new kitchen and bathrooms throughout. The house was built in 1972 and seems to have never been touched; there is still shag carpet in it and the fireplace stone screams Brady Bunch. Every room in the house, except perhaps the garage will get touched with all the current bathrooms (3) getting completely renovated. The theater will be the only room in the house with a TV.

Kew, we have $200,000 budgeted for the renovation so I really don't see $5k-$7k being that big a deal on this king of thing (she wants a $5k bath tub for crying out loud). But again, I enjoy movies but am not savy on the latest and greatest as far as equipment and what I should have, what is "good enough," what would be considered "a nice system" or what have you. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it sounds loud and good and the family can gather in one place once or twice a month for Movie Night, as you suggested, I'm happy. The wife understands this too and her only concern is paying thousands for something we will need to replace in a few years because the technology renders it obsolete. I don't see that happening with speakers. There isn't a danger of me escaping into gaming; I play with a headset on my plasma TV so there isn't anything that will change. Same TV, same headset.

Looking at the HSU Research HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf speakers....they are hundreds less than the other brands mentioned/suggested. By more than half. I just wanted to make sure they are that good to make your list of suggestions or am I looking at the wrong speakers? Many of the other bookshelf options suggested start at $500 each whereas these come in at around $160. Just wanted to make sure I was looking at the correct speaker.

Also, will be going with Atmos. For a room that size, is having 2 subs really worth the extra $? It's a relatively small room and I honestly don't see stuffing 2 subs into a space that small being worth it. But I could be wrong. Dunno.

I've also changed my mind on the projector/screen vs. TV; I think a 75" LCD 4k TV will serve us better due to the fact that this isn't a dedicated Theater room and has 4 windows in it; we may need something a little brighter. So the 75" LCD will go on the big wall for movies, and the 50" Plasma will go on the wall on the bottom. The audio rack will be stored under the stairs and there will be access through the wall next to the plasma. See the pic in my next post, all TV's and furniture is to scale.

So a 5.2.4 Atmos system is what I'm aiming for at this point, and if someone can convince me that putting 2 subs in a 300+sf room is better I'm listening. Will I need an amplifier? Pardon my ignorance.

 

[Mhkpilot]

its Actually not letting me post a pic from my iPad, says it’s “too large.”

 

[Mhkpilot]

It actually worked if I used the selfie camera on my phone...but needs to be rotated 90 degrees to the right to match the previous posted photo...

 

[shadyJ]

Snake, you are right, I will do 4 ceiling speakers for the very reason you mentioned. Not worth thinking "I shoulda..." down the road. The overall home renovation will add 750sf to a current 3,000sf house and includes a new roof, addition which will be our master bed/bath, new kitchen and bathrooms throughout. The house was built in 1972 and seems to have never been touched; there is still shag carpet in it and the fireplace stone screams Brady Bunch. Every room in the house, except perhaps the garage will get touched with all the current bathrooms (3) getting completely renovated. The theater will be the only room in the house with a TV.

Kew, we have $200,000 budgeted for the renovation so I really don't see $5k-$7k being that big a deal on this king of thing (she wants a $5k bath tub for crying out loud). But again, I enjoy movies but am not savy on the latest and greatest as far as equipment and what I should have, what is "good enough," what would be considered "a nice system" or what have you. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it sounds loud and good and the family can gather in one place once or twice a month for Movie Night, as you suggested, I'm happy. The wife understands this too and her only concern is paying thousands for something we will need to replace in a few years because the technology renders it obsolete. I don't see that happening with speakers. There isn't a danger of me escaping into gaming; I play with a headset on my plasma TV so there isn't anything that will change. Same TV, same headset.

Looking at the HSU Research HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf speakers....they are hundreds less than the other brands mentioned/suggested. By more than half. I just wanted to make sure they are that good to make your list of suggestions or am I looking at the wrong speakers? Many of the other bookshelf options suggested start at $500 each whereas these come in at around $160. Just wanted to make sure I was looking at the correct speaker.

Also, will be going with Atmos. For a room that size, is having 2 subs really worth the extra $? It's a relatively small room and I honestly don't see stuffing 2 subs into a space that small being worth it. But I could be wrong. Dunno.

I've also changed my mind on the projector/screen vs. TV; I think a 75" LCD 4k TV will serve us better due to the fact that this isn't a dedicated Theater room and has 4 windows in it; we may need something a little brighter. So the 75" LCD will go on the big wall for movies, and the 50" Plasma will go on the wall on the bottom. The audio rack will be stored under the stairs and there will be access through the wall next to the plasma. See the pic in my next post, all TV's and furniture is to scale.

So a 5.2.4 Atmos system is what I'm aiming for at this point, and if someone can convince me that putting 2 subs in a 300+sf room is better I'm listening. Will I need an amplifier? Pardon my ignorance.

The HB-1s are very good speakers. I like the CCB-8s a bit more, but I do enjoy my HC-1 and HB-1 speakers. If you are looking at a set of HB-1 speakers, one thing I would suggest, if possible, is use a upright HB-1 as a center speaker instead of the HC-1. I would steer clear of traditional center speaker designs that place a tweeter between two woofers in a horizontal line (that's like 80% of all center speakers). Just use a regular upright bookshelf speaker as a center- it will perform better and it will be less expensive.

One handy thing you can do, if you go with a Hsu package, is use the Hsu HIW in-walls for the ceiling speakers. They can work as ceiling speakers, so you can have a totally timbre-matched speaker system. Make sure to read through the Dolby Atmos Installation guide for proper placement.

Regarding two subwoofers, that isn't about making the system get louder, its about smoothing out the low-frequency response. Single sub systems can often have an erratic response where certain frequencies are too loud and others are too soft. This has to do with the fact that the wavelengths of low frequencies are a lot longer than most domestic rooms and so will overlap and cause a very rocky response. Multiple sub systems smooth out the response merely by adding new curves and randomizing out the response to something closer to the subwoofer's intrinsic response.

 

[Mhkpilot]

Ahhhhh....see? ShadyJ, thank you for your knowledge on the 2-sub thing. I didn't know that. Ok. Will consider 2 subs.
And thanks for the heads-up on the center speaker. I will take your advice when the time comes and opt for a bookshelf speaker....unless someone else has another opinion that counters ShadyJ's???? (This is why I love focused forums).

 

[KEW]

Ahhhhh....see? ShadyJ, thank you for your knowledge on the 2-sub thing. I didn't know that. Ok. Will consider 2 subs.
And thanks for the heads-up on the center speaker. I will take your advice when the time comes and opt for a bookshelf speaker....unless someone else has another opinion that counters ShadyJ's???? (This is why I love focused forums).

ShadyJ is on target with his comments about MTM centers. More importantly, he knows those specific speakers well!

 

[KEW]

Kew, we have $200,000 budgeted for the renovation so I really don't see $5k-$7k being that big a deal on this king of thing (she wants a $5k bath tub for crying out loud).

I'm with you on that, $5k for a tub definitely falls into the "personal indulgence" category! You should both be able to have your own "splurge"!

I've also changed my mind on the projector/screen vs. TV; I think a 75" LCD 4k TV will serve us better due to the fact that this isn't a dedicated Theater room and has 4 windows in it; we may need something a little brighter. So the 75" LCD will go on the big wall for movies, and the 50" Plasma will go on the wall on the bottom. The audio rack will be stored under the stairs and there will be access through the wall next to the plasma. See the pic in my next post, all TV's and furniture is to scale.

Before you give up on the projector, at $29/window, you might try these in your bedroom and see what you think
I have these and they do a very good job of blocking the light. Note this price ($29) is for two panels.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026SEF5A/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are a classy rod for $29/window and allow 2 curtains if you want sheers underneath. There are 5 different finish options:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DB1GMZC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[PENG]

$5,000 seems a little tough but a $5,500 can get you something like this:

70-75" 4K TV (outgoing models) - $1500
HSU or SVS 5.1.2 speakers - $2000
2 HSU or SVS 12" suwoofer (one for each corner/3' from corner to clear the door opening?) - $1100-$1400
Denon AVR-X3400H - $550-$600

Total - $5150-$5500

If the concern is obsolescence, then stick to the lower mid range receivers so that you won't feel much pain even if you have to replace it as soon as the 3 years warranty runs out. The Denon X3000 series typically drops 40% of its value within one year from launch.

 

[snakeeyes]

$5,000 seems a little tough but a $5,500 can get you something like this:

70-75" 4K TV (outgoing models) - $1500
HSU or SVS 5.1.2 speakers - $2000
2 HSU or SVS 12" suwoofer (one for each corner/3' from corner to clear the door opening?) - $1100-$1400
Denon AVR-X3400H - $550-$600

Total - $5150-$5500

If the concern is obsolescence, then stick to the lower mid range receivers so that you won't feel much pain even if you have to replace it as soon as the 3 years warranty runs out. The Denon X3000 series typically drops 40% of its value within one year from launch.

Not sure his 5k included a tv or without. A 65in tv (cheaper than 75in) would still be a big step up from his 50in. Also the rear speakers don’t need to be as good as the front 3. I just think 4 ceiling speakers is real atmos. 2 is a tease. And ya Denon 4400 will go on sale when 4500 is out.