Unbiased news sources

[highfigh]

It is mind boggling how most Republicans have become complacent with what is happening in their party today under Trump. Only a select vocal few are speaking out but they are either winding down their careers or are not very influential in their party. This really isn't about party anymore. If a Democrat was doing what Trump is doing, I'd call him out on it. Of course the Dems lack the ability to unify even behind good policy so it's unlikely ever to occur on their side. One side is ruthless and corrupt, the other side is spineless. We are screwed!

And too many people paint with broad brush strokes when they describe the opposing party. The ones in the public eye are often the ones that fit the descriptions, but the vast majority of others usually don't.

Social media aren't helping.

 

[highfigh]

The phrase "left of center" begs the question what is the center? In the USA, what is considered conservative has gone so far to the right that it has broke historical notions of the normal political spectrum. Modern american conservatism doesn't seem to have any principles beyond stifling progress of any kind. It has been stripped down to the naked id, to use Freudian terms, it is pure dumb animal instinct. It wasn't always like this; while I could never agree with conservative ideologies, they at least used to have a coherent platform. Now it is nothing more than reactionary emotions.

And the Left has gone so far to that side they're tapping each other on the shoulder and putting 'Kick Me Real Hard' signs on each others' backs. The fact that you wrote "I could never" says a lot- you can't be unbiased. Liberals are all about control, through whatever means possible. While fewer regulations can be a good thing, we're still dealing with people and people need to be controlled, at times. What's happening now is very similar to the events leading to the riots and unrest in 1968- if you weren't alive, good luck finding an unbiased report about that but Nixon was elected because he ran on a Law & Order platform- people were sick of the destruction and even though we're 50 years past, what was happening then is nothing compared to what's going on in the US now- car theft/chases, murders, the knock-out game (that's a game?).......MKE had rioting in an area where a cop killed someone he was chasing and the people were mad enough, but then a group came up from Chicago and started burning stores, cars, a bank next door to a police station and one 'community activist' was arrested this week for making Molotov cocktails and posting about burning that police station. People aren't observing the laws and if anyone will cause this to become more of a problem, it's them, not the ones who are tired of paying the price for it through higher taxes and insurance rates or declining property value and neighborhoods.

 

[highfigh]

I think the biggest challenges the Republicans have are Trump's trade actions. An important faction of his support base is agriculture, and farmers are taking it on the chin with retaliatory tariffs. So are factory workers, another key group. I doubt too many Harley-Davidson or Brown-Forman workers are happy with Trump at this juncture. GM and Ford workers may be the next people on his "What the hell are you doing?" list. All of the German car manufacturers with factories in the US are in red states, so I'm assuming members of Congress from those states aren't aligned with the President either. I wonder if his base will stay so loyal once important groups in his base lose fractions of their overseas markets to retaliatory tariffs? I doubt it; financial considerations are not like guns and courts.

Even search engines are biased- I googled "tariffs on US goods pre-Trump actions" and this link is what came up- NOTHING about foreign tariffs, just about what he's doing. Apparently, I need to word the search parameters in a way that makes it understand that I want to see what other countries were charging.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tariffs+on+US+goods+pre-Trump+actions&rlz=1C1OPRB_enUS771US774&oq=tariffs+on+US+goods+pre-Trump+actions&aqs=chrome..69i57.20501j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As it turns out, the tariffs imposed by the US are among the lowest in the World, at about 1.6%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/22/u-s-tariffs-are-among-the-lowest-in-the-world-and-in-the-nations-history/

 

[Irvrobinson]

Even search engines are biased- I googled "tariffs on US goods pre-Trump actions" and this link is what came up- NOTHING about foreign tariffs, just about what he's doing. Apparently, I need to word the search parameters in a way that makes it understand that I want to see what other countries were charging.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tariffs+on+US+goods+pre-Trump+actions&rlz=1C1OPRB_enUS771US774&oq=tariffs+on+US+goods+pre-Trump+actions&aqs=chrome..69i57.20501j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

As it turns out, the tariffs imposed by the US are among the lowest in the World, at about 1.6%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/22/u-s-tariffs-are-among-the-lowest-in-the-world-and-in-the-nations-history/

While search engines are designed to be biased, that's their value proposition, in this particular case what you're seeing is a bias towards recent articles. And unfortunately to use search engines in a way the programmers don't intend (meaning, to subvert advertising) you have to know a little bit about their indexing technique. For example, try searching for "tariffs on US goods by country". I like Bing's results better than Google's.

Another view of trade barriers between the US, the EU, and China:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/08/trumps-trade-war-does-the-u-s-have-the-lowest-tariffs-in-the-world/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f624a89b09af

China looks pretty bad even in this more big picture view.

 

[pewternhrata]

With the tariffs. I know the impact on the 'global economy' is another world, but what about the impact on manufacturing jobs here? Take the solar panels for example.
increasing tarrifs on panels could/would increase the cost for installers and consumers. However, by increasing the tariffs we are looking at the option of manufacturing them here in the states. (I'll keep this short) creating more jobs in the manufacturing industry. Now, when I open the paper to look for jobs, I may have a few available and will most likely take one bc I need to. However, if manufacturing is up, there would be more choices and a greater ability to sell my skills to a business rather than just take what's available. We could/should see an increase in wages in the industry bc simple supply demand for them. Yes panels could continue to cost more here than China, but increased wages could/should combat that.
But that's just one side, filled with more than just the direct hit of solar, it's the effects on manufacturing as a whole.
I read that before the tarrifs, the solar industry was going to triple....but wheres that money going? To china? To the business owners who deal overseas? Damn sure it's not going back to us.

 

[highfigh]

While search engines are designed to be biased, that's their value proposition, in this particular case what you're seeing is a bias towards recent articles. And unfortunately to use search engines in a way the programmers don't intend (meaning, to subvert advertising) you have to know a little bit about their indexing technique. For example, try searching for "tariffs on US goods by country". I like Bing's results better than Google's.

Another view of trade barriers between the US, the EU, and China:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/08/trumps-trade-war-does-the-u-s-have-the-lowest-tariffs-in-the-world/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f624a89b09af

China looks pretty bad even in this more big picture view.

Why would they be biased? They're just sort programs and if someone looks for a specific thing, it should just show that.

Your recommended phrase is basically what I changed mine to and when I used yours, the same link I posted was 5th from the top.

Tariffs are the exact opposite of what a country would do if they want inexpensive, or at least less expensive goods- a friend and his wife went to the Bahamas and liked it so much they bought a condo the first time they were there. According to the link, the tariffs on goods shipped in is around 18%, but with VAT and other charges, it's much more. If they bring the goods with them, they're checked and questioned, but there's often no additional charges. However, the Bahamas aren't part of the US, so they charge what they will.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I read that before the tarrifs, the solar industry was going to triple....but wheres that money going? To china? To the business owners who deal overseas? Damn sure it's not going back to us.

Actually, in the US, mostly to solar system installers. Their numbers and pay far outweigh people employed in factories.

 

[highfigh]

With the tariffs. I know the impact on the 'global economy' is another world, but what about the impact on manufacturing jobs here? Take the solar panels for example.
increasing tarrifs on panels could/would increase the cost for installers and consumers. However, by increasing the tariffs we are looking at the option of manufacturing them here in the states. (I'll keep this short) creating more jobs in the manufacturing industry. Now, when I open the paper to look for jobs, I may have a few available and will most likely take one bc I need to. However, if manufacturing is up, there would be more choices and a greater ability to sell my skills to a business rather than just take what's available. We could/should see an increase in wages in the industry bc simple supply demand for them. Yes panels could continue to cost more here than China, but increased wages could/should combat that.
But that's just one side, filled with more than just the direct hit of solar, it's the effects on manufacturing as a whole.
I read that before the tarrifs, the solar industry was going to triple....but wheres that money going? To china? To the business owners who deal overseas? Damn sure it's not going back to us.

Tariffs are partly to combat one country dumping goods at low prices in other places as a way to disrupt the economy. One good example is plywood- Japan had ships positioned offshore that would go to ports in the Pacific NW to buy logs. Once they had traveled to international waters, they would process the logs and make the plywood, then bring it back to US ports to sell far below domestic prices and the whole process took about three days. If the ship was under the flag of a country with no harsh tariffs, it was easy for them to skirt the rules since the finished product wasn't made on Japanese soil.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Why would they be biased? They're just sort programs and if someone looks for a specific thing, it should just show that.

Commercial search engines are built mainly for advertising revenue, and they're far from just sort programs. They hide the description of their biases in scientific-sounding terms like "page ranking", but the algorithms are complicated and proprietary.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why would they be biased? They're just sort programs and if someone looks for a specific thing, it should just show that.

Your recommended phrase is basically what I changed mine to and when I used yours, the same link I posted was 5th from the top.

Tariffs are the exact opposite of what a country would do if they want inexpensive, or at least less expensive goods- a friend and his wife went to the Bahamas and liked it so much they bought a condo the first time they were there. According to the link, the tariffs on goods shipped in is around 18%, but with VAT and other charges, it's much more. If they bring the goods with them, they're checked and questioned, but there's often no additional charges. However, the Bahamas aren't part of the US, so they charge what they will.

When I first started working as a Customs broker (in the US) we had significant tariffs and onerous procedures and inspections for imports. That was in the 70s. Things are much different now, particularly the proliferation of special trade programs (you've probably heard of NAFTA but do you know what the GSP is?) as well as expedited release procedures and a very small percentage of shipments actually being inspected. Some tariffs are/were to protect US industries, some to enforce our political/economic preferences; we used to have communist countries (like China) under punishing column 2 duty status, now all but North Korea and Cuba have column 1 status. We basically moved our production overseas to avoid US labor costs as well as environmental issues. The drumpf is out of his league in this arena, he is stumbling and fumbling. He still makes his crap overseas, doesn't he?

 

[Mikado463]

If one were to replace the words "conservative" or "conservatism" with "liberal" or "liberalism" in your post, one could easily describe the opinion of a conservative regarding liberals. The great "divide" in this country is perpetuated, reinforced and encouraged by news outlets (right or left) and social media. I believe @rojo had a great answer and is something I try to do myself as it is too easy to glom onto an entity that reflects and encourages my own political leanings and could blind me to the fact that I am not getting "the whole story". I really enjoy BBC news - maybe it's because of their soothing accents as they recount the latest catastrophe.

agreed......... I blame it all on Christopher Columbus. If the bastard hadn't discovered that the earth wasn't flat all the a-holes on the far right and left would have fallen off by now !

 

[pewternhrata]

When I first started working as a Customs broker (in the US) we had significant tariffs and onerous procedures and inspections for imports. That was in the 70s. Things are much different now, particularly the proliferation of special trade programs (you've probably heard of NAFTA but do you know what the GSP is?) as well as expedited release procedures and a very small percentage of shipments actually being inspected. Some tariffs are/were to protect US industries, some to enforce our political/economic preferences; we used to have communist countries (like China) under punishing column 2 duty status, now all but North Korea and Cuba have column 1 status. We basically moved our production overseas to avoid US labor costs as well as environmental issues. The drumpf is out of his league in this arena, he is stumbling and fumbling. He still makes his crap overseas, doesn't he?

I thought that majority of stuff he made is manufactured in the states (companies that he was actually involved in)
Maga hats are US made (would be funny to see a made in mexico tag though)
iirc 'his' clothing line is not really his, he just makes royalties off of his name, as most trump merchandise is. Remember him putting his name on something is no different than say rachel ray selling cookware, rebranded cheap calphalon I believe. Her name will sell so calphalon wants it. Jordan and nike, aside from a few designs that are most likely not even his, I doubt he has any say in nikes manufacturing process.
It's hard to search for that info as most that comes up is about his daughter and how she is not affected by increasing the tarrifs, but let's ignore everyone else in the clothing industry...

 

[lovinthehd]

Always liked the drumpf's reaction in this interview

 

[pewternhrata]

Always liked the drumpf's reaction in this interview

None the less I still have to laugh at it, and always will. But again, taking a clip about Romney, editing parts out to make him look like a fool isn't biased at all. Again, context about animals and immigrants. Also, I'm still curious to know who actually operates the clothing line. I wonder if he actually doesnt know where, with his endless profile I highly doubt he does.

 

[lovinthehd]

None the less I still have to laugh at it, and always will. But again, taking a clip about Romney, editing parts out to make him look like a fool isn't biased at all. Again, context about animals and immigrants. Also, I'm still curious to know who actually operates the clothing line. I wonder if he actually doesnt know where, with his endless profile I highly doubt he does.

It's just a video clip I found on youtube, I saw the show itself....just focusing in on this particular reaction to how clueless he is.

 

[highfigh]

When I first started working as a Customs broker (in the US) we had significant tariffs and onerous procedures and inspections for imports. That was in the 70s. Things are much different now, particularly the proliferation of special trade programs (you've probably heard of NAFTA but do you know what the GSP is?) as well as expedited release procedures and a very small percentage of shipments actually being inspected. Some tariffs are/were to protect US industries, some to enforce our political/economic preferences; we used to have communist countries (like China) under punishing column 2 duty status, now all but North Korea and Cuba have column 1 status. We basically moved our production overseas to avoid US labor costs as well as environmental issues. The drumpf is out of his league in this arena, he is stumbling and fumbling. He still makes his crap overseas, doesn't he?

GSP and GATT have been around longer than Trump has been in office- what's

I don't know about his stuff- you mean his clothing? I don't buy clothes just because someone's name is on them but I think his daughter's lines are made overseas. How long have politicians told us that we're part of a World Economy? We hated the products coming from Japan after WWII and called it 'Jap Junk' for decades, then realized they were making better products than we were. Edward C Demming had ideas that could improve the efficiency and quality of US-made cars, but the automakers were too arrogant to listen, so he went to Japan, and they WERE interested. It wasn't long before they were kicking our 'Big Three' asses with their cars. TVs were made here until it became clear that the prices were too high, so companies like Sony, Panasonic and Lucky Goldstar were hit by tariffs that resulted in them building plants in San Diego and Mexico. LG then bought Zenith and people thought they were still buying American-made products.

One of the first things Harley bought from outside was wiring harnesses, in the late-'70s or early-'80s and the factory workers bitched, but they also dug in their heels when the Metric System was brought in, so that shows the average intellect at the time. Chevy has had a plant in Canada since the early 1900s, Ford has had plants there since 1904 (the Windsor engine plant). I don't hear anyone complaining that those "American Icons" are no longer "American".

It's ironic that so many people bitch about foreign manufacturing but buy most of their stuff at discount stores, Amazon, etc. When my dad worked for Harley Davidson, he would occasionally invite some of his co-workers to the house and a couple of them had foreign cars with 'Buy Union' bumper stickers. My first experiences with labor unions came after he started working there- they went on strike and his income was reduced to the 'Bread Money' the union paid, which I think came to a whopping $18/week and I'm not sure they qualified for unemployment because they weren't fired, laid off or injured. That lasted long enough for me to ask why they were on strike and I was told that they wanted more money & better benefits. I didn't make any friends when I asked "How's that working for you?". My next experience came when I worked at a lumber yard the Summer after I graduated high school- the Teamsters went on strike and that meant the yard had to be closed because the foreman and truck drivers were in that union, so the rest of us who worked outside were sent home. We hadn't worked there long enough to collect more than a few bucks a week for the time they were on strike and fortunately, it didn't last long but it showed me that unions were being used as a weapon, with collateral damage. My most recent experience came in 2005, when I worked for an AV contactor and we were sent to work in an apartment tower in downtown MKE. As we waited to go in after the union guys left, we were taunted and ridiculed- we heard some yell "Better hide your tools, or these scabs will steal them" and other BS like that every time we went. I don't know of any AV contractors that have union members as installers and electrical contractors who try to do custom fall flat on their faces because they don't train for that kind of work. I understand why they exist, but the increases in cost for goods and services can be excessive, IMO. When their pensions involve guaranteed payout (GM, Milwaukee Public School System), the cost is staggering. MPS (the school system) budget for 2018 was $1.2 Billion and 65% went for wages and pension- this is for 76,000 students with high dropout and chronic truancy rates & terrible reading comprehension and math/science scores. The 2018 budget for the whole City of Milwaukee was $1.54 Billion.

Should the US pay higher tariffs on foreign goods than they pay for ours? I don't think so. Does the US dump goods at lower prices on foreign shores? I doubt it- I wouldn't imagine the US labor rates and environmental restrictions would allow it. Should the US be forced to fund the rest of the World when they run out of money?

 

[highfigh]

agreed......... I blame it all on Christopher Columbus. If the bastard hadn't discovered that the earth wasn't flat all the a-holes on the far right and left would have fallen off by now !

Vespucci was here before Columbus. For that matter, Columbus NEVER made it to what is now the US. They knew the World wasn't flat before he left but it still took cajones to sail that far. Either way, they would have to put some kind of collector for when everyone falls off, so they don't sail into space.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Rate your own bias

https://www.allsides.com/rate-own-bias

 

[lovinthehd]

GSP and GATT have been around longer than Trump has been in office- what's

I don't know about his stuff- you mean his clothing? I don't buy clothes just because someone's name is on them but I think his daughter's lines are made overseas. How long have politicians told us that we're part of a World Economy? We hated the products coming from Japan after WWII and called it 'Jap Junk' for decades, then realized they were making better products than we were. Edward C Demming had ideas that could improve the efficiency and quality of US-made cars, but the automakers were too arrogant to listen, so he went to Japan, and they WERE interested. It wasn't long before they were kicking our 'Big Three' asses with their cars. TVs were made here until it became clear that the prices were too high, so companies like Sony, Panasonic and Lucky Goldstar were hit by tariffs that resulted in them building plants in San Diego and Mexico. LG then bought Zenith and people thought they were still buying American-made products.

One of the first things Harley bought from outside was wiring harnesses, in the late-'70s or early-'80s and the factory workers bitched, but they also dug in their heels when the Metric System was brought in, so that shows the average intellect at the time. Chevy has had a plant in Canada since the early 1900s, Ford has had plants there since 1904 (the Windsor engine plant). I don't hear anyone complaining that those "American Icons" are no longer "American".

It's ironic that so many people bitch about foreign manufacturing but buy most of their stuff at discount stores, Amazon, etc. When my dad worked for Harley Davidson, he would occasionally invite some of his co-workers to the house and a couple of them had foreign cars with 'Buy Union' bumper stickers. My first experiences with labor unions came after he started working there- they went on strike and his income was reduced to the 'Bread Money' the union paid, which I think came to a whopping $18/week and I'm not sure they qualified for unemployment because they weren't fired, laid off or injured. That lasted long enough for me to ask why they were on strike and I was told that they wanted more money & better benefits. I didn't make any friends when I asked "How's that working for you?". My next experience came when I worked at a lumber yard the Summer after I graduated high school- the Teamsters went on strike and that meant the yard had to be closed because the foreman and truck drivers were in that union, so the rest of us who worked outside were sent home. We hadn't worked there long enough to collect more than a few bucks a week for the time they were on strike and fortunately, it didn't last long but it showed me that unions were being used as a weapon, with collateral damage. My most recent experience came in 2005, when I worked for an AV contactor and we were sent to work in an apartment tower in downtown MKE. As we waited to go in after the union guys left, we were taunted and ridiculed- we heard some yell "Better hide your tools, or these scabs will steal them" and other BS like that every time we went. I don't know of any AV contractors that have union members as installers and electrical contractors who try to do custom fall flat on their faces because they don't train for that kind of work. I understand why they exist, but the increases in cost for goods and services can be excessive, IMO. When their pensions involve guaranteed payout (GM, Milwaukee Public School System), the cost is staggering. MPS (the school system) budget for 2018 was $1.2 Billion and 65% went for wages and pension- this is for 76,000 students with high dropout and chronic truancy rates & terrible reading comprehension and math/science scores. The 2018 budget for the whole City of Milwaukee was $1.54 Billion.

Should the US pay higher tariffs on foreign goods than they pay for ours? I don't think so. Does the US dump goods at lower prices on foreign shores? I doubt it- I wouldn't imagine the US labor rates and environmental restrictions would allow it. Should the US be forced to fund the rest of the World when they run out of money?

Nice rant. Yes, the drumpf came along without any particular trade negotiations/agreements of his own, he just wants to back out of the ones he's heard about on Fox and Friends....can't believe he's actually studied anything in this regard, he's just not got the attention span or brains to digest. He just calls all of them bad and throws little baby tantrums because that's all he's got. Yes, he has products made overseas as does his daughter while trumpeting some nationalistic garbage that he doesn't follow himself. The drumpf family isn't leading by example...

The questions about dumping of US products I'd have to investigate, wasn't really something I dealt with but imagine we're capable of it in some fields, seem to remember reading a few things in trade mags about such pointed at our products here and there over the years. Does the US pay more duties across the board on it's products? Possibly, depends on the product and if we even export it any more. How this relates to funding the rest of the world I have no idea where you'res going on that one....we've been pretty good at sucking the worlds resources up like we somehow owned them, sometimes bills come due.

 

[herbu]

James, Gene, you guys are not wrong. But I'm not sure you fully understand your adversary. When you speak of the GOP as being ruthless and corrupt, what you say in admonition is received by the right with pride and triumph, as well as scorn for the defeated bleeding heart liberals. As personally invested as people are in their beliefs, it's going to take something other than identifying the other party's faults to heal the rift. And that's what the Democratic party is lacking, is a strong message and a ruthless network with which to deploy it.

Right or not, Repubs have borders to secure, jobs to bring back from overseas, taxes to cut, zygotes to save, guns to hoard, and a child sex trading, nuclear materials selling, Benghazi botching grandmother to lock up. They have a clear message that resonates with the commoners. They have angry people feigning righteous indignation at conspiracies on Fox & Friends, Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Breitbart, and so on, wall-to-damn-wall, and they use small words and endless repetition to preach their propaganda. They even have your rural relatives forwarding conspiracy emails reinforcing this network. What do the Dems have? Rachel Maddow? Amy Goodman? Michael Moore? Celebs at awards shows? They're all either not righteously angry enough, neutered by ridicule from the Right, or too whiny to sway any Fox News fans. And the Dems' unified messages of "the other side cheated", "stop mistreating brown people", and "yeah, but what if we're right about science" just come across as sour grapes.

Honestly, I have no idea how to fix this. I'll just keep voting for the centrists and keep watching my votes cancelled by the truckers and the ladies in mumus.

Kudos, rojo. Although your own bias couldn't help but peek out, your analysis is right on... mostly.

While the Democrats do lack a message other than, "Let's hate Trump and all his supporters", they do not lack the ruthless network. The left owns most TV. Not just most news, but most "entertainment" programs. The right owns most radio.

But you are on the mark about platforms. We, the right, see Waters and Pelosi. We see Democrats electing avowed Socialists. We see news coverage and audience support given to actors, comedians and talk show hosts espousing some of the most vile and hateful rhetoric ever heard. Then we are accused of being heartless. It just doesn't wash. Sour grapes indeed.

Frankly, anybody right or left, who believes half the people in this country are evil, bad or stupid, is delusional or narcissistic. I believe we are all basically good. Something is driving a wedge between us. We need to identify what it is and destroy it. (And sorry, but it is not Obama or Trump.)