Do audiophiles hear something we don't?

Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
That people can be trained to listen is well-proven. I disagree that "long time listening experience with various audio gear" is relevant.

I keep hearing about these people who like to impress others with their audio equipment, but I've never met them. I know a lot of people who own very expensive equipment, but none of them are in the show-off category.
Irv
I may have an alternate opinion about the value of a long time listening experience. I don't think it makes you any better at listening or more discerning. But, it gives you a decent experience base with which to judge what you're listening to now. I appreciate the really great sound I get with my present system because I've had to settle for stuff that wasn't so great because of factors not under my control. My experience base helps me evaluate just how good I have it ! All subjective of course.

I am going to have to agree with your second point though. I often have a picture in my mind of the equipment laden show off audiophool. But until I read your post it never occurred to me I have never actually met one. Not once. Its a common stereotype, common enough I carry it around in my mind. In point of fact, I have to agree: I've never actually met one. I learn something every day.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Ok, so you're not an audiophile (fool),that's Ok, but what makes you think 'your' ears are 'the' hear all ? ...... they're not !
Where the hell did you get the idea that I said my ears were "the hear all"?:rolleyes:
 
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DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
There's more than one type and more to enjoying audio than just having great equipment. You are spot on Mr Boat. I have "filled in the missing bits" many times on systems when I was broke and that's all there was. With good friends in the room and some good comradery, I've had some great musical enjoyment sessions on what I would now consider to be sub-par equipment and room. Loving the music adds to the enjoyment.

Having the right mindset that predisposes you to enjoy something IMHO gives some folks a definite leg up. If you're pretty sure you're gonna enjoy a piece of music, odds are good you just might. Add great equipment, and dang if it doesn't turn out great a lot.
I just listened to Rush Moving Pictures and Tool undertow on my system on Vinyl this week end and I was like WTF just happened !!!! How did I miss the layers and separation as a kid ???? Again on 5.1 stereo setting with 4 speakers and a sub.. The Bass playing On RUSH WOW .. TOOL was just like WTF whole album...
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Exactly and to that Nelson Pass is one of the most respected in the DIY community. Both he and his son are very approachable when in attendance at some of the shows I've been to. Never did see 'Joe Denon' there to talk to though ...........
You meant Joe Denon's, or S. Marantz's grand/great grand kids.:D For the original's contributions, they should be in heaven, eventually if not yet..
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Where the hell did you get the idea that I said my ears were "the hear all"?:rolleyes:
well, that's more or less what you implied when making your 'audio fool' comment to which I quoted you. Then you went on to use the word 'we' as if you are some part of group and or cult that knows how all is to be heard !
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I just listened to Rush Moving Pictures and Tool undertow on my system on Vinyl this week end and I was like WTF just happened !!!! How did I miss the layers and separation as a kid ???? Again on 5.1 stereo setting with 4 speakers and a sub.. The Bass playing On RUSH WOW .. TOOL was just like WTF whole album...
Many of us had known of these "layers" and details from years ago. Most of us found it by merely using lower distortion speakers and a stereophonic setup.

When I returned to this hobby post HT, I was wondering what was so new that everyone was trying to find with all of this surround gear with music. Figured at first, that all of these extra channels must have been installed to pick up on more mic positions, or that we had been ignoring part of the stage? Well, it turned out not to be the case with the music I was used to and that I really had no desire to turn my entire living space into a magic speaker. Again, that all of what I was trying outside of what I had been used to was resulting in a more combined, monaural sound, comparatively. Finally got tired of messing around and went back to a more studio style of listening. HT/video, simply does not apply to me for music. I hear all the instruments and notes. I can count the musicians in a band and hear even their most subtle contributions, right down to the art of it all.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Many of us had known of these "layers" and details from years ago. Most of us found it by merely using lower distortion speakers and a stereophonic setup.

When I returned to this hobby post HT, I was wondering what was so new that everyone was trying to find with all of this surround gear with music. Figured at first, that all of these extra channels must have been installed to pick up on more mic positions, or that we had been ignoring part of the stage? Well, it turned out not to be the case with the music I was used to and that I really had no desire to turn my entire living space into a magic speaker. Again, that all of what I was trying outside of what I had been used to was resulting in a more combined, monaural sound, comparatively. Finally got tired of messing around and went back to a more studio style of listening. HT/video, simply does not apply to me for music. I hear all the instruments and notes. I can count the musicians in a band and hear even their most subtle contributions, right down to the art of it all.
That is why I got rid of my center channel since I only listen to music now. 4 speakers because I do play DVD audio once in a while .. I set center channel signal as ghost on denon . And I agree about shitty speakers not set up properly in my youth..
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
well, that's more or less what you implied when making your 'audio fool' comment to which I quoted you. Then you went on to use the word 'we' as if you are some part of group and or cult that knows how all is to be heard !
You seem to misinterpret what you read. The title of this thread included the word "WE". I just repeated the title of the thread and just substituted one word!o_O
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes they do. Their sight biased subjective imagination is what they are hearing. How else can one describe the difference in sound of audio cables and interconnects when in fact, signal propagation has been completely understood for the last 50 years?
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Yes they do. Their sight biased subjective imagination is what they are hearing. How else can one describe the difference in sound of audio cables and interconnects when in fact, signal propagation has been completely understood for the last 50 years?
A cable Of any kind brings a signal from point A to point B that is it . A soldered connection is always better than a crimped one. More copper the better .. The rest is Snake Oil and millions are made every year
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
You seem to misinterpret what you read. The title of this thread included the word "WE". I just repeated the title of the thread and just substituted one word!o_O
gotcha, so the thread is about the 'we' cult vs the audiophile(fool) !
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
That is why I got rid of my center channel since I only listen to music now. 4 speakers because I do play DVD audio once in a while .. I set center channel signal as ghost on denon . And I agree about shitty speakers not set up properly in my youth..
I am using two rather large 2-way speakers and two subs close up. It doesn't leave me a lot to offer on audio forums but it sure sounds good.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I believe some audiophiles and "we" are not fools, thought some probably are, definitions dependent.:D:D
Agreed PENG, it's just that there is a certain faction here that at times thinks there can be no middle ground.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
@Bucknekked – This is a tough one. There is no way to determine whether someone else hears more than you or as much as you. (It is, I believe, easier to determine if someone hears less than you and this is one of the problems. Someone smarter here once said you can’t win an argument with “I can’t hear it so it’s not there”).

Then again, there IS such a thing, I believe, as developing your hearing through practice – spending a lot of time listening and comparing and discerning among different sounds, albums, equipment etc.

So the question, sometimes, is whether a certain person can hear something, not only if it's there? Is his hearing developed enough? This is why I often don’t take my hearing as a starting point. I’ll say I can’t hear the difference between tin plate and copper cable, but, and this for me is more important, a lot of life-time experience experts say they can’t (usually these are the ones that are not trying to sell or help someone sell you, in this case, tin plate cable) and I go by them. I rely on experts because I can’t afford to give every option a listening test.

I’m satisfied when I see that both I and some experts say the same thing. I don’t think of my ears much although many of my musician friends tell me I have nothing to worry about.

Now, about the difference. As said here many times, there are a lot of differences out there, but are these improvements? It IS possible to even hear a difference on those dumb youtube clips where people “test” 45000$ equipment (or more) and change between CD and mp3, but what is that difference made of? What it consists of? It is similar with very expensive equipment. Many of those brands deliberately produce “signature-sound” equipment and of course you can hear the difference, but is this difference really relevant to you?

Since no one can own as many sound systems as there are different studios/sounds, I always believed it is best to go after the equipment that does nothing or as good as nothing to the sound except amplify it and reproduce it.

In the end, there are always those cases of exposing companies fixing their systems in order to sell audiofool sh… like Nordost and all those cases mentioned in these forums over time. To which I say If the difference is so big that it’s worth the increase of 8000$ for some piece of equipment, why the fixing? Why do you need to meddle with the source material if it’s audible?

But you see now how tough it is? How intertwined and blurred it is? Yes it is possible to hear more than the average Joe AND since it is next to impossible to determine when this stops and becomes mere placebo, you’re left only with your honesty and sense of decency. At one point audible improvements stop being improvements and become mere differences among high-end brands. Still audible, but is it worth thousands of bucks?
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I’m in the wine business and probably should be on the other end of spectrum in this debate. When people listen to me analyzing wine, they always think I’m full of sh… However, when I ask someone who is as good as I am whether he can detect a certain fragrance, the answer is almost always a positive one.

Furthermore, when I provide a substance that gives of that same fragrance and ask the distrusting novice if he/she can detect it after that, more often than not, they can (like a certain type of plum for the Merlot, passion fruit for the Australian Chardonnay, lychee for the Gewurtztraminer).

So it has to do with learning to detect. But when I have someone spouting nonsense like the wine smells like his granny when she is sad, I just wanna puke.

To expand on the subject even further, I had a lab at my convenience to confirm my findings. If I say volatile, the machine says volatile. If I say banana, the machine says banana (in fact it is isoamyl-acetate). If I say contact with lees, the wine maker says contact with lees and so on.

So, even if my description may sound odd to someone who just dropped in on the whole wine scene (like your newsreporter), I know what I’m saying and why I’m saying it. And there is still a huge difference between what I say and all the subjective nonsense you can hear about wines.
 

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