The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

Do Separates (Preamps or Pre-pros + Amps) Sound Better Than AVRs in Direct/Bypass Modes?

  • Yes, Separates sound better than AVRs

    Votes: 40 47.6%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same

    Votes: 22 26.2%
  • No, Separates and AVRs sound about the same when they are similar in price range

    Votes: 22 26.2%

  • Total voters
    84
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
The 802D3 sounded just like my 802D2, which sounded just like the 802D1 to me. :D

No way in hells the 802D3 goes down to 17Hz @ -3dB from what I heard. More like 35Hz, not 17Hz.
I recently heard the 802D3s, though under less than ideal conditions, and I didn't have any of my own CDs with me, which means that I didn't have any familiar music or recordings that I made myself. That said, I agree that the 802D3s don't seem to be potent below 40Hz. Not in the room I heard them in. These things needed a pair of high-quality subs, IMO.

Based on my short (~30min) listening session, I do think there are differences between the 802D1, D2, and D3 versions, and I have to say that if I had to vote I like the 802D2s better than the other two versions. The caveats of course are that these sessions were separated by substantial time (years, for the 802D1),and while I used many of the same CDs for the D1 and D2 listening (I heard the D1 & D2 multiple times),the D3 music was different, and the rooms were different. Nonetheless, all of this is typical of dealer auditions. Given TLSGuy's opinion of the 800D3 I expected a lot more neutrality than I heard with the 802D3s.

With all the 802D versions IMO they're colored speakers but in other regards have high quality. I always find that combination produces a wow factor on some music, and wrinkled brows on other music. For example, on well-recorded female voices all of 802Ds give me that wow factor. I understand why a couple of friends love their 802Ds, but as an accuracy fanatic they're not for me. Especially the 802D3 at their new higher price.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I recently heard the 802D3s, though under less than ideal conditions, and I didn't have any of my own CDs with me, which means that I didn't have any familiar music or recordings that I made myself. That said, I agree that the 802D3s don't seem to be potent below 40Hz. Not in the room I heard them in. These things needed a pair of high-quality subs, IMO.

Based on my short (~30min) listening session, I do think there are differences between the 802D1, D2, and D3 versions, and I have to say that if I had to vote I like the 802D2s better than the other two versions. The caveats of course are that these sessions were separated by substantial time (years, for the 802D1),and while I used many of the same CDs for the D1 and D2 listening (I heard the D1 & D2 multiple times),the D3 music was different, and the rooms were different. Nonetheless, all of this is typical of dealer auditions. Given TLSGuy's opinion of the 800D3 I expected a lot more neutrality than I heard with the 802D3s.

With all the 802D versions IMO they're colored speakers but in other regards have high quality. I always find that combination produces a wow factor on some music, and wrinkled brows on other music. For example, on well-recorded female voices all of 802Ds give me that wow factor. I understand why a couple of friends love their 802Ds, but as an accuracy fanatic they're not for me. Especially the 802D3 at their new higher price.
To be fair, it is kind of impossible to actually listen and compare most speakers side by side, especially one generation vs another (D1 vs D2 vs D3). We can see how they measure - like D1 vs D2 vs D3 on Stereophile measurements. And if we just go by these objective measurements, then they objectively measure pretty much the same from D1 - D3. But subjectively, it's almost impossible to be able to actually listen to D1 vs D2 vs D3 side by side.

Anyway, inflated prices and inflated DefTech/GoldenEar-like numbers aside, these B&W Diamond and big McIntosh electronics are fun to look at. :D
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
I'm not cheap, I'm frugal, there's a difference. Science teaches us, you don't have to spend a lot of money to get great sound.

There's more to life than having expensive hood ornaments in your living room and believing they sound better. ;)
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
For our commercial break.......... :D

Well, yesterday I had some free time so I went to check out the local Magnolia store at Best Buy in OKC. The most prominent components were the B&W 802D3, 803D3, 805D3, and the McIntosh gears, including the MX160 Pre-pro and Amps. They also had Pre-pros from Arcam, Rotel, Marantz, and Integra.









Typical Best Buy, horrible set up to audition anything. Anybody that listens in an environment like that no wonder they can't appreciate let alone understand. Ridiculous how they have the Logan's presented. Do you have any legitimate audio salons in your area ?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Typical Best Buy, horrible set up to audition anything. Anybody that listens in an environment like that no wonder they can't appreciate let alone understand. Ridiculous how they have the Logan's presented. Do you have any legitimate audio salons in your area ?
LOL just what is an audio "salon"? A pretentious hi-fi store?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Typical Best Buy, horrible set up to audition anything. Anybody that listens in an environment like that no wonder they can't appreciate let alone understand. Ridiculous how they have the Logan's presented. Do you have any legitimate audio salons in your area ?
They do have separate dealers for B&W, Revel, KEF, etc. And their rooms are somewhat better and it helps. But I don't think it's as good as a lot of in-home setups.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well, they do indicate Audioquest as a featured brand in their stores per the website....you just need to ask and ye shall receive! :)
Probably. The guy was trying to sell me on his opinion that ROTEL sounds a lot better than Marantz and that got me distracted. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
we understand , but you also said you're a cheap ass too !
Truth be told, if that GM had offered me the McIntosh MX122 for only $3,000, I probably would have put it on my BB card (it doesn't matter if I believe a Denon X3000 AVR sounds just as good). :D

But in the end, I'm glad the price was $6,300. It made it so easy to decline. :D
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Truth be told, if that GM had offered me the McIntosh MX122 for only $3,000, I probably would have put it on my BB card (it doesn't matter if I believe a Denon X3000 AVR sounds just as good). :D

But in the end, I'm glad the price was $6,300. It made it so easy to decline. :D
I knew it!
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Truth be told, if that GM had offered me the McIntosh MX122 for only $3,000, I probably would have put it on my BB card (it doesn't matter if I believe a Denon X3000 AVR sounds just as good). :D

But in the end, I'm glad the price was $6,300. It made it so easy to decline. :D
I root for your Denon. ;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I knew it!
Yeah, now I know how women feel about buying shoes and purses. They just had to buy because "it saved them money". :eek:

Wife: Why the heck did you spend $3K on something that you don't believe sounds better than a $600-on-sale AVR?
Husband: But, honey, I had to buy that McIntosh because it SAVED me $4,000 ! :po_O
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Probably. The guy was trying to sell me on his opinion that ROTEL sounds a lot better than Marantz and that got me distracted. :D
What he needed to tell you was that he gets more commission points off of Rotel than he does off of Marantz. ;)
 

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