Disappointments with new AVR

[joshk03]

Ok, fair warning everyone... me, my wife, and our toddler are sick. The toddler follows me whimpering and crying and clinging to my legs all day long. This has been going for days, and also last weekend.
Here we go. The Denon X1400H receiver arrived, and the dynamic EQ is cool. My satisfaction completely ends there. The thing is a dinosaur. It's huge, clunky, and unresponsive. Me and my wife agree it is a huge eyesore sitting in our living room. The remote is a brick. The screen overlay uses 480p and is an embarrassment to the year 2018. In normal use, the receiver is super unresponsive, it feels like it freezes every time I use the brick to control it. The app is worse. If I change the volume too fast the app freezes and disconnects. Then there is the "Spotify". No, it doesn't actually have Spotify as advertised. It can only be a AirPlay speaker for your iphone running the Spotify app. Yes, if you open the HEOS app on your phone and press Spotify, it starts the Spotify app on the phone, which then plays on your phone speakers if you don't take further action. Yes, you need to drain your iPhone battery to keep the music playing. And don't even think of leaving the house to check the mail or go into the yard with the phone in your pocket.
Surprisingly this appears to be the state of AVR tech these days, not just Denon.
At this point I am supposed to be excited about my new system, but instead i'm talking to my wife about returning it all. Even the sub that has not arrived yet.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's not that large compared to some other avrs, it's not clunky compared to some other avrs. I somewhat get the unresponsive stuff if you're using the Denon app, never liked that much, I have used another app called AVR Remote (for Denon/Marantz) with more success but more often use a Harmony remote or for some detailed settings the Denon's remote.

I have older Denon and Onkyo avrs with the Spotify app, no longer works at all on the Onkyo but a recent firmware update (badly executed and communicated by Denon) gave me the Spotify Connect version (but without even a screen icon, just as you say if I select the avr as an available device it just starts playing....no matter what the avr is set to, which is somewhat annoying). But afaik Spotify is transitioning pretty much all such apps to Spotify Connect types for continued support. While I use another device, an android phone in my case, to direct music to the Denon or other Spotify apps on devices I don't think it uses much battery but haven't really checked, not enough to be concerned with as if I have it on the couch or bedroom I usually have it on a usb charger anyways.

What did you expect aesthetics-wise? Sounds like you didn't think out your purchase more than problems with the gear....you want smaller/sleeker/less functionality instead of all that an avr can bring? That does appeal to some....

 

[MrBoat]

Remember the stack of components it used to take to do just 3-4 things?

Also, audio typically sucks in sterile or, minimalist environments.

The other trend that coincided with the advent of the AVR was dedicated entertainment space, which is essentially, a fancy closet that allows a man to still live in his own home with his toys. It pretty much takes a alpha gearhead to share these things with a 21st century, HGTV approved living room these days.

To the contrary, I am still amazed all of this fits on a shelf space that is less than 12" tall with room to spare!

 

[-Jim-]

I'm amazed you didn't do your homework before laying out a considerable amount of cold hard cash for hardware you weren't the slightest bit familiar with. These are sophisticated electronic devices and not some toy by Sonic or Bose stuff that's more about looks than sound.

You may not be ready for this yet. Maybe a Soundbar is more in your wheelhouse.

 

[joshk03]

Aesthetics wise, I expected it to look sleeker and shinier, more like it's online photos.
Size wise, I pictured it similar, but sliding a LOT closer to the wall, like my DVD player. Performance wise, I expected a responsive Linux based operating system. Most people don't realize just how many things now run Linux these days, but smart TVs, routers, ATMs, WalMart self-checkouts, and even some cars are, in laymens terms, just an app on a Linux computer. This allows for a quality processor and UI... not an ancient text-based one. The Denon UI is basically MS-DOS, and that's not an exaggeration, it's the truth!
Yea, I thought I was getting a Spotify Connect compatible device. Spotify Connect is awesome.
I wouldn't say our home is minimalist, perhaps modern with light clutter.
I did plenty of homework. Please direct me to the texbook that warns me of the MS-DOS experience. What am I saying, I used MS-DOS on a Comodore64 long ago, and it was highly responsive.
I'm not sure Bose fits this discussion since I'm not aware of them making AVR equipment.

 

[sholling]

Aesthetics wise, I expected it to look sleeker and shinier, more like it's online photos.
Size wise, I pictured it similar, but sliding a LOT closer to the wall, like my DVD player. Performance wise, I expected a responsive Linux based operating system. Most people don't realize just how many things now run Linux these days, but smart TVs, routers, ATMs, WalMart self-checkouts, and even some cars are, in laymens terms, just an app on a Linux computer. This allows for a quality processor and UI... not an ancient text-based one. The Denon UI is basically MS-DOS, and that's not an exaggeration, it's the truth!
Yea, I thought I was getting a Spotify Connect compatible device. Spotify Connect is awesome.
I wouldn't say our home is minimalist, perhaps modern with light clutter.
I did plenty of homework. Please direct me to the texbook that warns me of the MS-DOS experience. What am I saying, I used MS-DOS on a Comodore64 long ago, and it was highly responsive.
I'm not sure Bose fits this discussion since I'm not aware of them making AVR equipment.

So your major complaints are that it's large enough to actually deliver the performance that it promises without overheating and dying an early death and that the menus aren't geewiz enough? I agree that the menus aren't beautiful but how much time are you spending in the menus and how small do you want the fonts to be?

AVR remotes are necessarily beasts simply because most people demand that every possible function live as a button on the remote. It's for the reason that you stated that some manufacturers include or sell, a second, smaller, everyday remote. For everyday use I just use a Harmony remote to tie all of my AV gear into a single full featured remote.

As for the HEOS app, the Android app is usable enough. Let's face it, not a lot of customers want to be searching for music via a remote control when a touch screen phone or tablet app makes it so simple. I'm just not sure what to tell you beyond that perhaps you should return it while you can and buy something that better suits your tastes. I'm just not sure what that will be. I use a streaming media player connected to a Denon AVR-X4400 to stream music. Perhaps a home theater PC (HTPC) connected to a pair (or more) of powered studio monitors and a powered sub would be a smaller slicker solution? I just find most HTPCs to be clunky to use without a mouse and keyboard. Also I'm not sure how you'd connect your exiting Blu-Ray player.

 

[Montucky]

Might I make a suggestion? Go ahead and get yourself a good quality universal remote. Once you finish setting everything up, with the exception of tweaking things here and there, you will RARELY be diving into the on-screen display or using the factory remote any longer.

If you still really want a smaller form factor but still require a receiver, then check into Yamaha and Marantz's slim line receivers.

While I agree that it can still jarring to see 480p/i interfaces in the year 2018, I can see perhaps that it also doesn't matter that much when people rarely use the menus. However, I believe the reason that receivers often default to such a low setting out of the factory is that because if you were to plug in a 1080p/4K device (where it defaults there) into a lesser resolution display, then you may be unable to do anything. Easy to raise the resolution as needed. Tough to lower it though if that makes sense. I don't think you're stuck with 480, though. I'm PRETTY sure that you can make the OSD clearer with changing some of the settings in the menu. It's likely just a factory default.

 

[NorCalRP]

First, I imagine it'll be some time before companies put the whizbang features you like into their components as long as the majority of their customers demand features related more to performance.

You mentioned liking the Dynamic EQ function. As I understand, that feature is aimed towards listening at low volume. Have you, there for, considered returning your Denon and picking up the Marantz NR1608? It has the same Audyssey functions and is much slimmer, albeit less powerful. It's a Denon product.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You mentioned liking the Dynamic EQ function. As I understand, that feature is aimed towards listening at low volume.

I listen to high volume and Dynamic EQ makes a significantly improvement to me.

IOW, you can tweak DEQ so that it makes a significant difference even at high volume. You can do this by manually increasing the digital trim levels (speaker channel level).

Dynamic Volume is more aimed toward low Volume.

 

[lovinthehd]

Aesthetics wise, I expected it to look sleeker and shinier, more like it's online photos.
Size wise, I pictured it similar, but sliding a LOT closer to the wall, like my DVD player. Performance wise, I expected a responsive Linux based operating system. Most people don't realize just how many things now run Linux these days, but smart TVs, routers, ATMs, WalMart self-checkouts, and even some cars are, in laymens terms, just an app on a Linux computer. This allows for a quality processor and UI... not an ancient text-based one. The Denon UI is basically MS-DOS, and that's not an exaggeration, it's the truth!
Yea, I thought I was getting a Spotify Connect compatible device. Spotify Connect is awesome.
I wouldn't say our home is minimalist, perhaps modern with light clutter.
I did plenty of homework. Please direct me to the texbook that warns me of the MS-DOS experience. What am I saying, I used MS-DOS on a Comodore64 long ago, and it was highly responsive.
I'm not sure Bose fits this discussion since I'm not aware of them making AVR equipment.

Fast food looks much better in advertising photos....

You could compare external dimensions (and allow for connecting cables). The X1400 has dimensions of 17 x 13.3 x 6 inches, and a Marantz slimline, as was mentioned, the 1501 isn't that much smaller at 17-3/8 x 4-3/16 x 14-1/2".

I could care less what OS it has as long as it functions, same for GUI, how it looks is of little importance and not that often called into play either. You want an HTPC, best way is to build one.

I believe yours is a Spotify Connect app tho, which is where you need an external device like an android phone to cast your selections to it...what is it about this app you think makes it is not?

Bose doesn't make a true avr.

 

[snakeeyes]

Fast food looks much better in advertising photos....

You could compare external dimensions (and allow for connecting cables). The X1400 has dimensions of 17 x 13.3 x 6 inches, and a Marantz slimline, as was mentioned, the 1501 isn't that much smaller at 17-3/8 x 4-3/16 x 14-1/2".

I could care less what OS it has as long as it functions, same for GUI, how it looks is of little importance and not that often called into play either. You want an HTPC, best way is to build one.

I believe yours is a Spotify Connect app tho, which is where you need an external device like an android phone to cast your selections to it...what is it about this app you think makes it is not?

Bose doesn't make a true avr.

Casting with Spotify connect doesn’t sound like it is working out well. Maybe try and see if Pandora works better than Spotify on Denon. I use Pandora plus ($5/mo) on both of my Yamaha AVRs and I do find myself loving the Yamaha iPhone controller app as well over my WiFi. (They also have an Android app). Not sure if Denons app is identical or worse. Good luck!

 

[lovinthehd]

Casting with Spotify connect doesn’t sound like it is working out well. Maybe try and see if Pandora works better than Spotify on Denon. I use Pandora plus ($5/mo) on both of my Yamaha AVRs and I do find myself loving the Yamaha iPhone controller app as well over my WiFi. (They also have an Android app). Not sure if Denons app is identical or worse. Good luck!

Works well for me, other than Denon taking the "Spotify" logo out of the list of apps when you bring up the network selection. I didn't even know I had it, thought Denon had stopped supporting it and deleted it after I did the latest firmware update (which they didn't provide a description for, even after opening a ticket with customer service, had to find it elsewhere). Personally I'd still prefer the app to work without my android phone, but not that big of a deal. I've also really bypassed the Denon's onboard apps lately by using an Amazon Fire Stick, that not only has Spotify Connect-ivity but also functions on its own to an extent. The Pandora app also had issues for a while on the same Denon unit, but works fine now. YMMV

 

[snakeeyes]

Works well for me, other than Denon taking the "Spotify" logo out of the list of apps when you bring up the network selection. I didn't even know I had it, thought Denon had stopped supporting it and deleted it after I did the latest firmware update (which they didn't provide a description for, even after opening a ticket with customer service, had to find it elsewhere). Personally I'd still prefer the app to work without my android phone, but not that big of a deal. I've also really bypassed the Denon's onboard apps lately by using an Amazon Fire Stick, that not only has Spotify Connect-ivity but also functions on its own to an extent. The Pandora app also had issues for a while on the same Denon unit, but works fine now. YMMV

I just like the $5/mo price of Pandora Plus. I guess I’m cheap. . I don’t need my phone to use it if the remote is handy. But the remote isn’t backlit so at night I use the iPhone or iPad mini.

 

[lovinthehd]

I just like the $5/mo price of Pandora Plus. I guess I’m cheap. . I don’t need my phone to use it if the remote is handy. But the remote isn’t backlit so at night I use the iPhone or iPad mini.

Still on the free version, the few ads don't bother me. Does plus bring higher bitrate now?

 

[snakeeyes]

Still on the free version, the few ads don't bother me. Does plus bring higher bitrate now?

It’s same bit rate but no ads and you can skip and rewind. I can’t stand ads.

 

[CB22]

Ok, fair warning everyone... me, my wife, and our toddler are sick. The toddler follows me whimpering and crying and clinging to my legs all day long. This has been going for days, and also last weekend.
Here we go. The Denon X1400H receiver arrived, and the dynamic EQ is cool. My satisfaction completely ends there. The thing is a dinosaur. It's huge, clunky, and unresponsive. Me and my wife agree it is a huge eyesore sitting in our living room. The remote is a brick. The screen overlay uses 480p and is an embarrassment to the year 2018. In normal use, the receiver is super unresponsive, it feels like it freezes every time I use the brick to control it. The app is worse. If I change the volume too fast the app freezes and disconnects. Then there is the "Spotify". No, it doesn't actually have Spotify as advertised. It can only be a AirPlay speaker for your iphone running the Spotify app. Yes, if you open the HEOS app on your phone and press Spotify, it starts the Spotify app on the phone, which then plays on your phone speakers if you don't take further action. Yes, you need to drain your iPhone battery to keep the music playing. And don't even think of leaving the house to check the mail or go into the yard with the phone in your pocket.
Surprisingly this appears to be the state of AVR tech these days, not just Denon.
At this point I am supposed to be excited about my new system, but instead i'm talking to my wife about returning it all. Even the sub that has not arrived yet.

My advice to you would be to return it all. I had a similar situation I had a low end Dennon, lived with it for about a year and sold it on ebay for 100 bucks. Maybe check out Marantz and Emotive. Maybe separates? The big thing that I've leaned on this forum is spend 2/3's on speakers and 1/3 on electronics. AVR technology will change a lot more quickly than speaker and amplifier technology.

 

[joshk03]

The menu is far lower resolution than 480p, I meant the screen I look at all day long when a song is playing. The screen that shows the album art and song title. Here's how today went:
Went through all the actions to get the first song playing. Before the song intro was done playing, a scammer called my phone and the Denon playback stopped. After ignoring the call I had to go back and press play again on the phone. The speaker burst to life again for less than a second, then the Denon stopped and said "Unable to play media". I pressed select on the Denon remote, and the speakers burst to life again for a split second, then stopped. I noticed the phone was still streaming, so I toggled back to the phone speakers. The song played on the phone. So I toggled back to the airPlay speakers. After a long 10 second delay, the song started playing on the Denon again.
Yesterday I was listening to MP3 music on the USB flash drive. It's encoded in 320kbps CBR. In the 2 hours I listened to the flash drive, the denon froze mid-song 6 times and 2 times required my intervention to resume playback. Now I played a movie without issue yesterday. At least I think the sound was without issue. Only put the movie on because I expected the Denon to let me down again.
I don't want wiz-bang, I want reliability in a nice package.
Sorry for not covering the playback issues in the initial post, I was distracted while writing it.

 

[lovinthehd]

The graphics while a song plays don't matter much to me, only so much interest in a shot of the cover art and the time/song info nor could I tell you what the resolution is on my 1080p set.

Don't use airplay but haven't had that problem with playing Spotify via my android phone, nor does an incoming call on the phone interrupt play. Sounds more like a bluetooth thing. No glitches when playing thumb drives whether they contain mp3 or flac files. I don't have the X1400, have an older 4520 (and 3808 but that one isn't currently connected to the internet, but thumb drives aren't an issue). Maybe it's defective.

 

[joshk03]

It is a refurbished, but I get the feeling these issues are firmware related. I need a little more time to find repeatability in the problems.

 

[3db]

I cant speak for the UI but if you really did your homework as you say, you would have looked at the dimensions publicized on Denon's web page. That would have given you a real idea about the size of the unit.