HT vs headphones

[Andrein]

Yesterday was listening to my HT system the first time after i bought Oppo pm3 headphones and ha2se amp. And while amongst headphones this combination sounds great, i was surprised how much HT system is better. I have +6db on my subs. But i use +5db boost with ha2se. I would think i should get a similar result, but not...

By looking at the pm3 measurments it should sound more or less the same in the bass department as my 2xsb2000 subs but it doesnt. It sounds great but subs produce more tight bass. Obviously with subs i can feel bass not just hear but still...

 

[2channel lover]

I have a pair of HiFi400i with a Denon amp/dac...I could've spend $400 more to get the best bass in the Hifi man line, but it's only slightly better than the 400i and it still pales in comparison to my main system.

Measurements don't tell the whole picture...Like bringing a pocket knife to a gun fight.

 

[Andrein]

I have a pair of HiFi400i with a Denon amp/dac...I could've spend $400 more to get the best bass in the Hifi man line, but it's only slightly better than the 400i and it still pales in comparison to my main system.

Measurements don't tell the whole picture...Like bringing a pocket knife to a gun fight.

Most on this forum trust measurments though. Would be nice to understand why the difference is.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yesterday was listening to my HT system the first time after i bought Oppo pm3 headphones and ha2se amp. And while amongst headphones this combination sounds great, i was surprised how much HT system is better. I have +6db on my subs. But i use +5db boost with ha2se. I would think i should get a similar result, but not...

By looking at the pm3 measurments it should sound more or less the same in the bass department as my 2xsb2000 subs but it doesnt. It sounds great but subs produce more tight bass. Obviously with subs i can feel bass not just hear but still...

Closed phones in general have a very inaccurate muddy bass balance. Open phones are a better bet. However you hear distractions in the room and others can hear the phones.

In general phones are not s good as decent speakers. However there is one manufacturer that makes far better phones in a given price class than the competition. That company is Sennheiser. Their Momentum phones are by far the best closed phones I know of. The bass is very slightly over warm. However these phones do produce pleasurable extended listening when phones are the only option.

No headphones are ever my first choice for listening. There are no phones I know of that can compare with my speakers, especially the bass.

 

[Andrein]

I tried open back phones as well. My oppo gives more bass actually than dt990 for instance which i tried before buying pm3. Obviously the soundstage better with dt990 but i needed headphones for the office and open backs were not the option really.

It just a bit pity you cant get the same experience with headphones. But i guess there are objective reasons for that.

 

[TLS Guy]

I tried open back phones as well. My oppo gives more bass actually than dt990 for instance which i tried before buying pm3. Obviously the soundstage better with dt990 but i needed headphones for the office and open backs were not the option really.

It just a bit pity you cant get the same experience with headphones. But i guess there are objective reasons for that.

Yes, but compared to open back, the bass is a "false" bass.

The other issue is the recording process. I found early on that if I recorded and mixed with headphones, I would get a bad result. I would find that I had a good recording on phones, only to find out that it sounded lousy at home. So I moved to speaker monitoring for my recordings and just about never headphones.
The BBC for instance monitor with speakers for all outside broadcasts.

If you want a good headphone balance you should explore dummy head recordings, which sound wonderful on phones and awful on speakers.

 

[2channel lover]

Most on this forum trust measurments though. Would be nice to understand why the difference is.

My cans have a noted freq response of 20hz - 35 kHz...even if the measure is correct, no way it can deliver the same SPL as my mains if they had the exact same fire response range.

 

[Andrein]

My cans have a noted freq response of 20hz - 35 kHz...even if the measure is correct, no way it can deliver the same SPL as my mains if they had the exact same fire response range.

They all say 20hz-20khz. But only few measure like these:

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/oppo/pm-3

And yet i dont feel like they go that deep. Is that just the difference in perception from 2 diff sources?

 

[2channel lover]

They all say 20hz-20khz. But only few measure like these:

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/oppo/pm-3

And yet i dont feel like they go that deep. Is that just the difference in perception from 2 diff sources?

10hz...yeah right. He does clean it it up a bit essentially saying bass enthusiasts may not appreciate the level of bass they have.

I respect his work for TVs...again, I go back to a 3" speaker (maybe 3") achieving the frequency range vs my 3 way floor standers.

FWIW, I demoed the PM3 before I bought my cans and you would think a closed back design would deliver stronger bass and it was stronger than my 400i, but the mids and highs were not as good imo.

 

[Andrein]

10hz...yeah right. He does clean it it up a bit essentially saying bass enthusiasts may not appreciate the level of bass they have.

I respect his work for TVs...again, I go back to a 3" speaker (maybe 3") achieving the frequency range vs my 3 way floor standers.

FWIW, I demoed the PM3 before I bought my cans and you would think a closed back design would deliver stronger bass and it was stronger than my 400i, but the mids and highs were not as good imo.

Sorry, did you mean do mention some name? Who is 'he'?

Agree. Pm3 highs could be better. I just dont understand why measurments do not translate into bass perception with headphones.

 

[2channel lover]

Agree. Pm3 highs could be better. I just dont understand why measurments do not translate into bass perception with headphones.

Nope...not sure of the Rtings reviewers name or even if the same guy does TV also.

If they do indeed achieve the frequency range, then SPL has to be the difference....someone else may be able to clear that up, but it's the only logical thing I can come up with.

 

[Montucky]

For me at least, one of the biggest differences between speakers/subs and headphones lie within the massive disconnect I experience with headphones. Even with the best headphones on the planet, you won't ever get the full body tactile experience you get with a traditional setup. When I'm listening to a symphony and hear the timpani kick in, I want it to feel like I got kicked in the chest like you can feel when you're at a live performance. When you're in front of a full orchestra, you can FEEL the vibrations of all the instruments. You just don't get that with headphones, but you definitely can with a good external setup. Closest by far I've come to replicating the experience was with hearing the magnificent Status Acoustics 8T's. Mmmmmmm.

I do love headphones due to the fact that I have a family (with babies) so sometimes I have to keep my audio to myself, and the audio quality can be absolutely superb with a nice set. Also great for apartment living of course. Still though. In my book, there's just no replacement for large speakers, subs, and gobs of power.

 

[2channel lover]

For me at least, one of the biggest differences between speakers/subs and headphones lie within the massive disconnect I experience with headphones. Even with the best headphones on the planet, you won't ever get the full body tactile experience you get with a traditional setup. When I'm listening to a symphony and hear the timpani kick in, I want it to feel like I got kicked in the chest like you can feel when you're at a live performance. When you're in front of a full orchestra, you can FEEL the vibrations of all the instruments. You just don't get that with headphones, but you definitely can with a good external setup. Closest by far I've come to replicating the experience was with hearing the magnificent Status Acoustics 8T's. Mmmmmmm.

I do love headphones due to the fact that I have a family (with babies) so sometimes I have to keep my audio to myself, and the audio quality can be absolutely superb with a nice set. Also great for apartment living of course. Still though. In my book, there's just no replacement for large speakers, subs, and gobs of power.

Exactly...well stated.

I use my headphones mostly for discovery now, but when my MIL lived with us for a short while they were my primary source of audio. Nice to have a good pair of cans, but for me, they don't replace my main system in any way.