Help needed for new AVR

[speakerman39]

Trouble with descriptions like this is they vary with different users/speakers etc....what does "polite and laid-back...more rounded and smooth" even mean?

Chris if you take say a speaker from Polk most of the time they are a bit on the bright side of scale. Now I am not referring to the LSi/LSiM, but the Rti/TSi Series are both bright sounding to me. In fact, even at moderate levels the tweeters can sound down right harsh and very ear fatiguing. I noticed that using both Denon and Pioneer avr's.

To this very day I have never liked or shall I say been able to tolerate a Klipsch speaker very long. That is, they are very bright and more in your face type of sound that I absolutely despise. But, I got the chance to hear the newer RP Series a while back and a lot of that has been tamed. In fact, I actually was very impressed with them.

Even my JBL 305's can get a little ear fatiguing at times. Especially, after very long listening sessions. But, I NEVER got ear fatigue from my Wharfedale Diamond 200's and/or Dentons no matter how long I listened to them. When compared to my Denon X4000 and the Cambridge SR20 there was clearly a difference in sound. The best way I can sum it up is that the SR20 was smoother and easy going whereas the Denon was a (slight)touch more forward than the SR20.

So, the question is was it a night and day difference? Absolutely not. Both sounded very good to my ears. But, the SR20 was a bit easier to listen to. Not necessarily better. Maybe the SR20 was veiled a bit. That is the only way I can describe it. If you lived closer, then I would have been more than happy to have you over for a listen.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

Still doesn't make it a viable description, Phil. I'm still lost as to what you're referring to in general with all the comments on various speakers/setups....I just am not a fan of subjective descriptions, just don't find them useful let alone consistent...

 

[speakerman39]

Still doesn't make it a viable description, Phil. I'm still lost as to what you're referring to in general with all the comments on various speakers/setups....I just am not a fan of subjective descriptions, just don't find them useful let alone consistent...

Really? So, you are still lost when I mention that I find Klipsch speakers very bright, forward, and in your face type of sound? Which as I already mentioned is the exact opposite of what I look for when shopping for new speakers. Likewise, you don't find the Polk Rti/TSi Series on the bright side even at moderate volume levels?

There are many many people that find the Klipsch speakers exactly as described above. Now the exception being the newer RP Series. Polk gets very little love here and on many other forums. We both know that speakers and/or the room plays the biggest roles in how a setup sounds. But, it has been my experience that different avr's do add their own flavor if you will. Perhaps, not night and day. Maybe even just slight. But, nevertheless there are some differences.

If you feel that is NOT your experience, then that is alright too. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else here. However, that does not make you any more right than I am wrong and vice versa. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. Nothing at all wrong with that. We all have our own experiences/expectations to draw from. That is what defines who we really are.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[PENG]

I agree. Not too long ago I owned a Marantz avr, then a Denon avr back to back. Needless to say, I did NOT really hear that much, if any, of a difference between the two. I will say, however, that the Cambridge SR20 stereo receiver I owned was much more polite and laid-back if you will. Perhaps, a bit more rounded and smooth. Hence, I would not call it warm, but rather more easy-going.

There are differences sometimes between various brands. But, specifically between Denon/Marantz not so much imho. I prefer Marantz myelf, but usually end up w/a Denon b/c Denon is more affordable here in the US. It is more I just like the look of the Marantz.


Cheers,

Phil

That sounds great, but if you do a level matched blind test, Denon in Pure direct, SR20 with no tone control I would bet you couldn't score much better than 50/50 in a single/simple blind test as the minor/subtle differences would become much less obvious. I say that because I am familiar with the so called Cambridge Audio, Marantz (both vintage and modern), and Denon sound and I have done comparison tests, with other people too. There could be subtle difference for whatever reasons, but not enough to really tell a difference consistently. It makes sense, and is logical too. All 3 brands have been consistently claiming transparency/accuracy that has been verified in many bench tests, so if one sounds different under normal conditions and at lower volume, that would amount to false advertisement, and that bench tests would be almost useless except to verify output power.

 

[speakerman39]

That sounds great, but if you do a level matched blind test, Denon in Pure direct, SR20 with no tone control I would bet you couldn't score much better than 50/50 in a single/simple blind test as the minor/subtle differences would become much less obvious. I say that because I am familiar with the so called Cambridge Audio, Marantz (both vintage and modern), and Denon sound and I have done comparison tests, with other people too. There could be subtle difference for whatever reasons, but not enough to really tell a difference consistently. It makes sense, and is logical too. All 3 brands have been consistently claiming transparency/accuracy that has been verified in many bench tests, so if one sounds different under normal conditions and at lower volume, that would amount to false advertisement, and that bench tests would be almost useless except to verify output power.

That makes sense. In the near-field I was able to detect some small differences in sound between the SR20 and the Denon. I did NOT notice much, if any, difference in the sound when I owned both the Marantz and/or the Denon. As mentioned, I listen a lot at lower to moderate levels almost 95% of the time. I do, on occasion, rock out a bit though. Been using my JBL Everest 700 headphones more than anything here lately.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[PENG]

That makes sense. In the near-field I was able to detect some small differences in sound between the SR20 and the Denon. I did NOT notice much, if any, difference in the sound when I owned both the Marantz and/or the Denon. As mentioned, I listen a lot at lower to moderate levels almost 95% of the time. I do, on occasion, rock out a bit though. Been using my JBL Everest 700 headphones more than anything here lately.


Cheers,

Phil

Have you compared the SR20 and the Denon using the headphones?

 

[lovinthehd]

Really? So, you are still lost when I mention that I find Klipsch speakers very bright, forward, and in your face type of sound? Which as I already mentioned is the exact opposite of what I look for when shopping for new speakers. Likewise, you don't find the Polk Rti/TSi Series on the bright side even at moderate volume levels?

There are many many people that find the Klipsch speakers exactly as described above. Now the exception being the newer RP Series. Polk gets very little love here and on many other forums. We both know that speakers and/or the room plays the biggest roles in how a setup sounds. But, it has been my experience that different avr's do add their own flavor if you will. Perhaps, not night and day. Maybe even just slight. But, nevertheless there are some differences.

If you feel that is NOT your experience, then that is alright too. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else here. However, that does not make you any more right than I am wrong and vice versa. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. Nothing at all wrong with that. We all have our own experiences/expectations to draw from. That is what defines who we really are.


Cheers,

Phil

Well, if you mean every single speaker under the Klipsch brand name, yes, that isn't quite believable; some of their series perhaps. Polks I haven't heard. I've read contradictory opinions as well. What kind of sound is it that is "in your face"? Not sure what that is at all.

I just don't find everyone's interpretation of these kind of descriptions to be the same, thus I get a bit lost on how meaningful it is. Like the polite thing on your amp description...

YMMV, suum cuique etc.

 

[speakerman39]

Have you compared the SR20 and the Denon using the headphones?

No Peng never got around to doing that. I did listen to my phones on the SR20 and thought it sounded okay. But, connected directly to my desktop it sounds just as good. I am very new to the headphone thing. Never thought in a million and one years I would have any use for them. However, I was sure wrong. In fact, I use my phones every single day........LOL!!!!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Well, if you mean every single speaker under the Klipsch brand name, yes, that isn't quite believable; some of their series perhaps. Polks I haven't heard. I've read contradictory opinions as well. What kind of sound is it that is "in your face"? Not sure what that is at all.

I just don't find everyone's interpretation of these kind of descriptions to be the same, thus I get a bit lost on how meaningful it is. Like the polite thing on your amp description...

YMMV, suum cuique etc.

You are right in that I meant the Klipsch speakers that I have ever heard. The exception being the RP Series. My local BB always has the Reference Series on display. They also sound pretty good which really surprised me. But, once I got a chance to listen to the RP Series I was utterly impressed. As such, I am NOT throwing shade on Klipsch.

You are right as well about the subjectivity of the terms that I use to describe my experiences. What is bright, forward, and in your face to me may be just right to someone else and etc. I also forgot to mention that my listening is merely 100% music not HT. Therefore, any speaker that leaves me ear-fatigued and gives me a headache after a reasonable listening session is certainly no speaker of mine. Especially, for the long haul.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[lovinthehd]

You are right in that I meant the Klipsch speakers that I have ever heard. The exception being the RP Series. My local BB always has the Reference Series on display. They also sound pretty good which really surprised me. But, once I got a chance to listen to the RP Series I was utterly impressed. As such, I am NOT throwing shade on Klipsch.

You are right as well about the subjectivity of the terms that I use to describe my experiences. What is bright, forward, and in your face to me may be just right to someone else and etc. I also forgot to mention that my listening is merely 100% music not HT. Therefore, any speaker that leaves me ear-fatigued and gives me a headache after a reasonable listening session is certainly no speaker of mine. Especially, for the long haul.


Cheers,

Phil

Let alone the Heritage series...

Kinda like food...what you may think of as hot and spicy I might consider bland....