Quality construction brands

[KEW]

Putting deposit down tomorrow (crazy lead time) doing curly maple in smokey silver

Nice. Curly maple is a standard veneer, so you shouldn't have to wait for it. Still, it's a long wait – BUT WORTH IT!

I might guess the "Smokey Silver" is a dye treatment which would count as a custom veneer.
That sounds gorgeous!
You gotta post pics!

 

[everettT]

I might guess the "Smokey Silver" is a dye treatment which would count as a custom veneer.
That sounds gorgeous!
You gotta post pics!

Absolutely

 

[Joe B]

Definitely not on the cheap side, the Paradigm Persona line of speakers have an incredible fit and finish. They do make their own enclosures for those speakers in Canada

More impressive than their construction is their sound. The most transparent sounding speakers I've ever heard.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Those towers have been sounding muddy? What amplifiers are you driving them with? What is their damping factor?

Audioholics did a review of those and they rated them as performing very well. The difference in performance might be due to the amplifiers you are using.

I am not really impressed with their impedance curve. RBH did not even install impedance compensation resistor and cap at least on the woofers. I suspect that by just adding such circuit to your woofers would flatten to a great extent the impedance curve. With a flattened impedance, most of the impedance peak at around 65 Hz would disappear and this would result in more current going to your woofers at the corresponding and surrounding frequencies. I believe that would appreciably improve the control your amps have on the woofers and get rid of that muddiness you're complaining about.

Moreover, I notice that RBH have cut corners in using chokes as inductors. I don't know at what volume you drive your speakers, but series chokes at high volumes have a tendency to saturate. This results in changed values and crossover frequencies. I always avoid them when I build speakers and use air core inductors.

I am not aware of anything about your experience in building speakers. Adding an impedance compensation network requires speaker testing equipment such as the Dayton DATS to enable a more accurate capacitor value than published formulas. If I owned those speakers, I would definitely replace the series chokes and add impedance compensation.

Just a word in defense of RBH. I haven't seen the impedance curve you're referencing, but an impedance compensation circuit isn't intended to operate in the bass. Its purpose is to counteract the rising impedance at higher frequencies caused by inductance from the voice coil. And with computer assisted design, you usually don't need the circuit to begin with. You just use component values that deal with the rising impedance. And I'm pretty sure the "chokes" that RBH uses in the woofer circuit are steel laminate, which, depending on gauge, have excellent distortion properties combined with very low dcr. I use them in my top-of-the-line Philharmonic 3 because the transmission line tuning does better with low dcr, and there's no penalty I've been able to hear or see in terms of saturation. Good ones aren't all that cheap, and they have a definite purpose.

 

[Verdinut]

Just a word in defense of RBH. I haven't seen the impedance curve you're referencing, but an impedance compensation circuit isn't intended to operate in the bass. Its purpose is to counteract the rising impedance at higher frequencies caused by inductance from the voice coil. And with computer assisted design, you usually don't need the circuit to begin with. You just use component values that deal with the rising impedance. And I'm pretty sure the "chokes" that RBH uses in the woofer circuit are steel laminate, which, depending on gauge, have excellent distortion properties combined with very low dcr. I use them in my top-of-the-line Philharmonic 3 because the transmission line tuning does better with low dcr, and there's no penalty I've been able to hear or see in terms of saturation. Good ones aren't all that cheap, and they have a definite purpose.

I'm sorry for mistake. You are absolutely right. I've just deleted my post.

I know as you can see with my Avatar. That was the curve on one MTM system which I built several years ago. I installed an impedance compensation network and the presence of two impedance peaks at low frequencies surrounding fs are normal in ported enclosures with a few exceptions..
Chokes are often used for their lower DCR. As you know, high value open air inductors get expensive and heavier for low frequency filtering, apart from having more resistance, and most manufacturers substitute them with chokes but as you mentioned, chokes don't all use steel laminates.
Your info as to the use of chokes in your Philharmonic 3 systems is interesting. You are using them because of their low DCR. Have you ever tried the Jantzen Iron Cored Wire Coils with Discs? They are good too and the manufacturer indicates that they will stand up to 400 watts before saturating. They also have a low DCR as compared to Open Air coils. I used them in one 3-way design for a crossover at 275 Hz between a sub and mid-bass drivers. Parts-Express sells them but if they don't stock an inductance value which Jantzen sells, I was told by a Jantzen rep that P.-E. can order it for you.
I got interested in them when I started my loudspeaker company several years ago, but I decided to close down within a short period of time because of too much competition and insufficient financial resources.

I appreciate the fact that you notified me about this error. It has been a nice opportunity to exchange ideas between us who are passionate about good music reproduction.
Cheers,

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I'm sorry for mistake. You are absolutely right. I've just deleted my post.

I know as you can see with my Avatar. That was the curve on one MTM system which I built several years ago. I installed an impedance compensation network and the presence of two impedance peaks at low frequencies are normal as in ported enclosures with a few exceptions..
Chokes are often used for their lower DCR. As you know, high value open air inductors get expensive and heavier for low frequency filtering, apart from having more resistance, and most manufacturers substitute them with chokes but as you mentioned, chokes don't all use steel laminates.
Your info as to the use of chokes in your Philharmonic 3 systems is interesting. You are using them because of their low DCR. Have you ever tried the Jantzen Iron Cored Wire Coils with Discs? They are good too and the manufacturer indicates that they will stand up to 400 watts before saturating. They also have a low DCR as compared to Open Air coils. I used them in one 3-way design for a crossover at 275 Hz between a sub and and mid-bass drivers. Parts-Express sells them but if they don't stock an inductance value which Jantzen sells, I was told by a Jantzen rep that P.-E. can order it for you.
I got interested in them when I started my loudspeaker company several years ago, but I decided to close down within a short period of time because of too much competition and insufficient financial resources.

I appreciate the fact that you notified me about this error. It has been a nice opportunity to exchange ideas between us who are passionate about good music reproduction.
Cheers,

That was a very classy reply. And thanks for the tip on Jantzen coils. I wan't familiar with them and I'll check them out. You found the speaker biz competitive? And your financial resources insufficient? Funny thing--that's what I discovered. I just don't have the common sense to fold my tent.

 

[Bucknekked]

That was a very classy reply. And thanks for the tip on Jantzen coils. I wan't familiar with them and I'll check them out. You found the speaker biz competitive? And your financial resources insufficient? Funny thing--that's what I discovered. I just don't have the common sense to fold my tent.

I am still in need of one more set of excellent speakers Dennis. Don't fold any tents until I can save up my pennies for a set of your Philharmonic 3's. Keep up the good work

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I may need to PM you again on RBH questions.

Did you ever try out Audyssey and Audyssey Dynamic EQ on your Marantz AVR to get a taste of what that's like?

 

[Verdinut]

That was a very classy reply. And thanks for the tip on Jantzen coils. I wan't familiar with them and I'll check them out. You found the speaker biz competitive? And your financial resources insufficient? Funny thing--that's what I discovered. I just don't have the common sense to fold my tent.

I was not very familiar with your Philharmonic 3 speakers and went to your website to know more about them.
They have a fantastic frequency response. The low frequency rendition is outstanding for an 8 inch woofer and the RAAL ribbon tweeter provides an amazing front sound image with its wide horizontal dispersion. What a great achievement!
Here is the link for the Jantzen coils: http://www.jantzen-audio.com/iron-powder-cored-coils-with-disc/

Cheers,

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I was not very familiar with your Philharmonic 3 speakers and went to your website to know more about them.
They have a fantastic frequency response. The low frequency rendition is outstanding for an 8 inch woofer and the RAAL ribbon tweeter provides an amazing front sound image with its wide horizontal dispersion. What a great achievement!
Here is the link for the Jantzen coils: http://www.jantzen-audio.com/iron-powder-cored-coils-with-disc/

Cheers,

Thanks for the link I'll definitely try them out, probably on the 3's.

 

[Verdinut]

Thanks for the link I'll definitely try them out, probably on the 3's.

After having tried them, it would be interesting to have your opinion on them in comparison to the chokes you have been using.