Outdoor speakers, high or low

M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Cool site you guys got here. I always loved and listened to music but like many, I mix and match and really dont know squat about how it all works, as long as the music played I was happy. My 20 year old $79 Teac receiver that Ive been using in the garage to listen to music while I build, and also using to push some cheap Walmart special speakers in the back yard by the pool, finally took a dump and I want to upgrade a little. I learned that getting decent sound outside is way more of a challenge than getting it inside as acoustics are, well, not there.So before I suggest something to the wife for fathers day, I am doing some research in an attempt to put together an outdoor sound system that I could be just a little more happy with so searched for a forum, found this one and signed up to read and learn. But now Ive got a question or 10.

For backyard sound, one could hang speakers 6-8' above the ground, or have speakers directly on the ground or under ground. I would like some advice as to which would better suit my needs.
The equipment: Ive got a Sony STR DE845 5.1 stero I am considering using. From what I gather it will put out 125W per channel but I would consider getting something else if needed.

The space: Its about 5000 square feet with patio area near the house and pool area at the back of the yard with a detached garage on the right side where the stereo will live. Ive already got wires are run to the very back fence by the pool area with two cheap speakers facing back toward the house. Ill run wires wherever needed to get the sound I want so no issues there.

My concerns: I am trying to decide if I should look for speakers that mount 6-8' off the ground or if I should look for something that sits on the ground or even buried like these. http://www.ticcorp.com/products/gs3-8-outdoor-weather-resistant-omnidirectional-in-ground-speaker.html

I do not know too much about acoustics but I know outside sucks for it. Would lower speakers have better bass and fill the yard more efficiently without spilling into my neighbors yard as much as high mounted speakers would or does it matter? Polk atrium 5's were recommended to me by someone who sells speakers but rock speakers came highly recommended by someone who owns them. So before I buy anything, I need to decide, High, Low or both?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How about some pics of the area?

Match speakers more by impedance and sensitivity ratings than just wattage ratings (wattage ratings don't mean a whole lot except to give you an idea of where their limits are before failure). Probably with that avr you should look to 6-8 ohm rated speakers rather than 4 ohm if you plan to play very loudly.

Stereo may not suit your needs. You want even sound coverage over the whole 5000 sqft? Or just in a seating area or ? The louder you play the more likely you'll annoy neighbors no matter where you mount them, too.

I mount my deck speakers up high (8' or so) on the outside wall of the house under the eaves, pointed at the seating area, towards ear level. That's somewhat for boundary reinforcement but also to keep them out of the weather as much as possible as well as just out of the way. I use these, but I'm not trying to cover 5000sq ft, maybe a hundred or so where we sit outside. I don't blast the speakers, but I've turned them up, they get reasonably loud and sound good. Not a lot of low end, I drag a wireless sub out there in good weather, but I think for most outdoor listening the speakers are fine on their own.

ps Welcome to the forums!
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Thanks for the welcome.
Ill get some updated pictures up tomorrow.
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Not to many overhangs available except for the garage and those aren't all that deep. That was another reason I was considering a ground based system as they seemed better protected by their own design but I could be wrong by that assumption.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Protection from the elements is dependent on specifics, both the speakers/housings themselves as well as electrical connections. Dispersion from a rock, meh.
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
How about some pics of the area?

Match speakers more by impedance and sensitivity ratings than just wattage ratings (wattage ratings don't mean a whole lot except to give you an idea of where their limits are before failure). Probably with that avr you should look to 6-8 ohm rated speakers rather than 4 ohm if you plan to play very loudly.

Stereo may not suit your needs. You want even sound coverage over the whole 5000 sqft? Or just in a seating area or ? The louder you play the more likely you'll annoy neighbors no matter where you mount them, too.

I mount my deck speakers up high (8' or so) on the outside wall of the house under the eaves, pointed at the seating area, towards ear level. That's somewhat for boundary reinforcement but also to keep them out of the weather as much as possible as well as just out of the way. I use these, but I'm not trying to cover 5000sq ft, maybe a hundred or so where we sit outside. I don't blast the speakers, but I've turned them up, they get reasonably loud and sound good. Not a lot of low end, I drag a wireless sub out there in good weather, but I think for most outdoor listening the speakers are fine on their own.

ps Welcome to the forums!
I have a pair of Boston Acoustics 7" marine speakers that I have mounted just under my gutters on pivot mounts. I like to listen to music when I BBQ and have people over. I like the mount em high and protect them from the rain when out side. You also have to consider your neighbors and if they want music blasting the whole Hood. I look at where am I going to be outside and target speakers to me. No one else cares about music more than me when out side. So I target the deck as my sound stage. You can also get A-B switches to power deck speakers. I have a switch for Kitchen and deck speakers .. I also bring deck speakers in for winter. Good luck
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
One thing to remember about outdoor speakers- small ones sound really crappy unless they're very close to walls, corners or preferably, both. If they're in free space, don't expect to hear any bass- the boundaries are needed to reflect sound toward the area where the speaker is aimed.

First, you need to define the sound quality that you want. If you want loud and full-range, that's possible, but it's not cheap. If you don't have a larger budget, you'll need to manage your expectations, possibly by doing this in stages.

The height is less important than whether some kind of boundary is available- if you have an overhang, use it- it will also provide some protection for the speakers. However, by facing the speakers away from the building, you're effectively trying to provide sound for an area that's far larger than possible, at a decent SPL, so it's better to aim them toward the building- the sound will reflect off of the walls to reinforce the sound level and it prevents sound going toward the neighbors or street (which isn't the purpose of installing them).

You don't need stereo and in fact, you don't want it unless you're setting up an outdoor listening area specifically for stereo. For covering a large area, which is called 'distributed audio', mono is best because there's no ping-pong of sounds that are only in one channel but coming from speakers that are very far apart (listen to old Beatles songs with headphones for an example) and if you're directly across from one speaker, it's highly likely that you won't even hear the next speaker, which may be providing almost half of the sounds on the recording.

Amplifier power- whatever your receiver can produce, it won't be enough. If overall output is less important, think about some kind of outdoor subwoofer because it's the bass where small outdoor speakers fall on their face.

This is one example of a speaker system type that can work, but these are not all equal- some aren't very good, some are great- the great ones are expensive, but you won't really think you're listening to outdoor speakers.

If you want to do this and not spray sound all over the neighborhood, think about using something that's made for outdoor sound, which direct the sound to a narrower area. Small PA speakers will do this and many brands are out there- JBL Control System (C-28-i), Atlas, Cerwin-Vega, MTX and others. Most are available in white or black and the ones in plastic enclosures are paintable. The JBL come with a mount.

The best outdoor systems come with a power amp that has a DSP and the equalization is set for outdoor use- it uses one channel for the sub(s) and the other channel uses a 70V system, which is normally part of the commercial/industrial realm, but it allows mono operation and connecting up to 8 speakers to one channel's output (it's designed to connect the speakers in parallel, as long as the speakers have the appropriate transformer setting) and the Sonance, Niles and some of the others sound great- the sub is buried "up to its neck" and the satellite speakers look a bit like Malibu landscaping lights.

THis one doesn't come with an amp-
https://www.proavdealer.com//sonance-sr1a-outdoor-speaker-system-with-sub.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-vphdDk2gIVkolpCh2f5Q8fEAQYBCABEgLO8fD_BwE

This system has an amp-

http://www.sonance.com/outdoor/sonarray

Your climate will determine the longevity of the speakers.
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
One thing to remember about outdoor speakers- small ones sound really crappy unless they're very close to walls, corners or preferably, both. If they're in free space, don't expect to hear any bass- the boundaries are needed to reflect sound toward the area where the speaker is aimed.

First, you need to define the sound quality that you want. If you want loud and full-range, that's possible, but it's not cheap. If you don't have a larger budget, you'll need to manage your expectations, possibly by doing this in stages.

The height is less important than whether some kind of boundary is available- if you have an overhang, use it- it will also provide some protection for the speakers. However, by facing the speakers away from the building, you're effectively trying to provide sound for an area that's far larger than possible, at a decent SPL, so it's better to aim them toward the building- the sound will reflect off of the walls to reinforce the sound level and it prevents sound going toward the neighbors or street (which isn't the purpose of installing them).

You don't need stereo and in fact, you don't want it unless you're setting up an outdoor listening area specifically for stereo. For covering a large area, which is called 'distributed audio', mono is best because there's no ping-pong of sounds that are only in one channel but coming from speakers that are very far apart (listen to old Beatles songs with headphones for an example) and if you're directly across from one speaker, it's highly likely that you won't even hear the next speaker, which may be providing almost half of the sounds on the recording.

Amplifier power- whatever your receiver can produce, it won't be enough. If overall output is less important, think about some kind of outdoor subwoofer because it's the bass where small outdoor speakers fall on their face.

This is one example of a speaker system type that can work, but these are not all equal- some aren't very good, some are great- the great ones are expensive, but you won't really think you're listening to outdoor speakers.

If you want to do this and not spray sound all over the neighborhood, think about using something that's made for outdoor sound, which direct the sound to a narrower area. Small PA speakers will do this and many brands are out there- JBL Control System (C-28-i), Atlas, Cerwin-Vega, MTX and others. Most are available in white or black and the ones in plastic enclosures are paintable. The JBL come with a mount.

The best outdoor systems come with a power amp that has a DSP and the equalization is set for outdoor use- it uses one channel for the sub(s) and the other channel uses a 70V system, which is normally part of the commercial/industrial realm, but it allows mono operation and connecting up to 8 speakers to one channel's output (it's designed to connect the speakers in parallel, as long as the speakers have the appropriate transformer setting) and the Sonance, Niles and some of the others sound great- the sub is buried "up to its neck" and the satellite speakers look a bit like Malibu landscaping lights.

THis one doesn't come with an amp-
https://www.proavdealer.com//sonance-sr1a-outdoor-speaker-system-with-sub.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6-vphdDk2gIVkolpCh2f5Q8fEAQYBCABEgLO8fD_BwE

This system has an amp-

http://www.sonance.com/outdoor/sonarray

Your climate will determine the longevity of the speakers.

That system looks like a great setup with excellent coverage but that price tag sucks (for me).


The speakers sold in the Sonarray which is $1000 for 4, specs say they are anodized aluminum cone with a santoprene surround, 8 ohm, 50w and get wired in a daisy chain.
I did some quick browsing on santoprene which appears to me to be a fancy rubber but there are a variety of Aluminum cone replacement woofers with regular rubber surrounds on the market from $15 to $50 or more. Is it safe to assume its the aluminum cone and rubber surround along with a decently built water tight enclosure that makes an "outdoor" speaker what it is or are there more components and material changes than that within the rear of a speaker?

Sorry if I’m terribly naive on the subject. There is so much to know and not enough time in a day or websites to learn it all in a lifetime.
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Here is the area I’m working with. Full coverage would great but depending on what is possible and what costs are associated with the project, zoning off the pool area and playing only the patio would be a bonus.
 

Attachments

DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
I would mount them at each of the highest corners of your garage on the wall facing table. under the over hang. Maybe a gutter on that side to protect speakers . And point to the table as sweet spot. Home Depot sells landscape wire that is buriable and makes great speaker wire . Or just get a blue tooth and plop it on table ?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That system looks like a great setup with excellent coverage but that price tag sucks (for me).


The speakers sold in the Sonarray which is $1000 for 4, specs say they are anodized aluminum cone with a santoprene surround, 8 ohm, 50w and get wired in a daisy chain.
I did some quick browsing on santoprene which appears to me to be a fancy rubber but there are a variety of Aluminum cone replacement woofers with regular rubber surrounds on the market from $15 to $50 or more. Is it safe to assume its the aluminum cone and rubber surround along with a decently built water tight enclosure that makes an "outdoor" speaker what it is or are there more components and material changes than that within the rear of a speaker?

Sorry if I’m terribly naive on the subject. There is so much to know and not enough time in a day or websites to learn it all in a lifetime.
Can you make the housings, wire them correctly and spec a driver with the correct impedance (NOT 4 or 8 Ohms) for less than $1000, (discounted) retail? I doubt it. Think about the impedance- it needs to make the amp happy, so it can't be a common driver and these ARE wired parallel.

I don't really like any drivers with foam surround, but some are made for outdoor use- I wouldn't choose them, but some would. The aluminum won't turn into Fritos due to direct Sunlight, and that matters.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Or just get a blue tooth and plop it on table ?
I was just thinking the same thing. I gave my GF a JBL Xtreme for use with her pool and she is getting more goody out of it than I could have ever anticipated! It does a fine job of blanketing her pool with great sound! It followers her whenever she does yard work. It is also splash proof - you can rinse it, but not submerge it. It goes with us to AirBnB's and provides a high capacity USB-ported power bank, just in case!
With the reinforcement indoors, it is bass heavy (though most BT sources have EQ options via apps so you can "fix" that); however, outdoors, it packs nice bass. The passive radiators are cool to watch with easily 3/8" travel (and we haven't played it so loud as it will go... yet).
Anyone who has heard a JBL Flip was probably impressed with the output...this is a Flip on steroids - Using the external dimensions, the Flip is 40 cu. in. and the Xtreme is 590 cu. in.! Specifically, the Flip is 2.7" dia by 6.9" long and the Xtreme is 7.75" dia by 12.5" long.
I think true outdoor speakers would sound better, but there is something to be said for being able to move the speaker to where you need it!
Whether it is right for you largely depends on how valuable the portability of something like the Xtreme is to you, but it does add a lot of possibilities. At just under 5 lbs and too large a diameter for smaller hands, it comes with a shoulder strap!
Also, you can couple two of these together should you want. I'm not sure if it is stereo or dual mono.

https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Portable-Wireless-Bluetooth-Speaker/dp/B014QQAM8I/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1
 
Last edited:
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Yes, I can make housings and wire them correctly for very little out of pocket cost. If your saying finding drivers is going to be a challenge then you answered my question.

I will read up on impedance and it’s relationship to the amp with various wiring setups and see where that leads me just for fun. I do foresee it leading me away from the ability to use the amp I have which would add cost.

The other suggestions I read here are also helpful, thank you. I’m still considering a simpler setup with wall hung speakers but not before I explore a little. If I could blanket the yard in uniform sound with a little DIY and time then it would be worth the effort.
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
Okay so after doing some reading on impedance I am going to regurgitate what I think I learned.

Ive got 2 channels A and B that according to the amp will run a 4-16 ohm load per channel at 125 watts in stereo L and R.
If I wanted to run 4 speakers in parallel on each channel, assuming a max of 4 ohms I would need 16 ohm drivers at roughly 60 watts each (which is around double what they could get from the amp and safe from what I have read so far). 16 ohm drivers are not abundant but they are available. I do not know what kind of quality they would be though and material options are not as plentiful.

If I were to run series/parallel I could use a more common impedance speaker like 8 ohms, 2 sets of series paralleled with each other which would equate back to 8 ohms impedance at the amp and the same 60 watts.
That gives me two channels, 4 speakers per channel, 8 ohms each speaker in series/parallel for a total of 8 speakers throughout the yard.
OR
Run one channel for the yard, on 4 speakers wired series/parallel 8ohms 60 watts and use the other channel for the garage.

I have not looked into a sub yet.

So I have this right so far or am I way off?
 
DIY Junky

DIY Junky

Full Audioholic
Okay so after doing some reading on impedance I am going to regurgitate what I think I learned.

Ive got 2 channels A and B that according to the amp will run a 4-16 ohm load per channel at 125 watts in stereo L and R.
If I wanted to run 4 speakers in parallel on each channel, assuming a max of 4 ohms I would need 16 ohm drivers at roughly 60 watts each (which is around double what they could get from the amp and safe from what I have read so far). 16 ohm drivers are not abundant but they are available. I do not know what kind of quality they would be though and material options are not as plentiful.

If I were to run series/parallel I could use a more common impedance speaker like 8 ohms, 2 sets of series paralleled with each other which would equate back to 8 ohms impedance at the amp and the same 60 watts.
That gives me two channels, 4 speakers per channel, 8 ohms each speaker in series/parallel for a total of 8 speakers throughout the yard.
OR
Run one channel for the yard, on 4 speakers wired series/parallel 8ohms 60 watts and use the other channel for the garage.

I have not looked into a sub yet.

So I have this right so far or am I way off?
Ok I would first ask myself #1 how much time are you going to spend out side listening to music ? #2 How much do i want to spend on this project ? # 3 will the neighbors call the cops on me again ? # 4 will the wife kill me ? .. Then I start shopping and building.. Have fun.. if it aint fun it aint a hobby..
 
M

Metal Head

Enthusiast
#1- More time than I spend inside listening to music from April-November
Ill skip # 2 for now as that is variable based on how much I want to do something but lets just say, Id rather not buy things considered "high end" when a low end or middle end product will satisfy my needs.
#3 my neighbors are cool, and I am respectable. If I know they are outside too, I turn it down so we dont mess with each others music or moods, If I am having a party on a weekend, I can crank it like a block party with no issues. This is one of the reasons I like more speakers, less volume needed in more areas of the yard will result in lower need for volume.
#4- non issue
 

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