Active Loudspeakers - next generation........

[Mikado463]

With Gayle Sanders launching his new speakers recently @ Axpona is this a sign of things to come? Granted his are a pricey pair but I'm wondering if this will be the way of the 'Millennial Audiophile' ?

https://audiobacon.net/2018/04/11/gayle-sanders-returns-with-launch-of-new-company-at-axpona/

Didn't NHT some years back come out with active speakers ?

 

[shadyJ]

Active speakers have been trending for a couple years now, so yes, it certainly is a sign of things to come. Many of the major manufacturers are getting on board with this. The Eikon system actually wouldn't be able to work passively- it not only needs self-amplification, it needs that along with special processing for every individual driver in the cabinet to do what it is doing. It's a cool speaker, and I thought it sounded very good when I heard it at Axpona. $24.5k is a bit rich for my blood, by consider that it is nearly the complete system- just add your source player and your are set.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've been lusting after the JBL M2s for a while. Seaton Catalyst 12Cs too. I'm far from a Millenial, tho but can see that being an alternative down the line for the new generation, but probably not for such large/expensive speakers....

 

[Mikado463]

Didn't NHT some years back come out with active speakers ?

Found it ...........

https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105nht/index.html

 

[MrBoat]

I like the JBL LSR series for that reason.

OTOH, when you look at how inexpensive, yet reliable class D amp boards are, you can start to be aware of an opportunity for huge markups in exchange for not much more than convenience.

In the case of the JBL LSR series, it appears you are getting a great deal and performance wise, you kind of are, but you are likely aware you are actually paying about what it should cost for drivers that perform well enough in plastic enclosures from a mass manufacturer, if you stop to think about it.

 

[rom3]

After having 2 subwoofers with built in amps have the amps fail, I don't think this is for me. I had to junk 1 sub as the amps were no longer available. The other was salvageable after replacing the amp, but the amp was only available from the manufacturer, so kind of a captive audience there.

What does one do when their speaker blows and amp and it's no longer available? $100 speaker, dump it in the trash and buy a replacement. $3,000 speaker...?

 

[lovinthehd]

After having 2 subwoofers with built in amps have the amps fail, I don't think this is for me. I had to junk 1 sub as the amps were no longer available. The other was salvageable after replacing the amp, but the amp was only available from the manufacturer, so kind of a captive audience there.

What does one do when their speaker blows and amp and it's no longer available? $100 speaker, dump it in the trash and buy a replacement. $3,000 speaker...?

You likely could have used an external pro amp (Crown, QSC, Behringer, etc) instead, even for both subs; on board dsp is available in these amps if needed. Unless they were servo subs with special amp needs, then that could be difficult. Somewhat the risk with any active speaker, so you look for active speakers with significant amp quality and/or warranty....or be prepared perhaps to provide your own amp/dsp down the line.

 

[KEW]

After having 2 subwoofers with built in amps have the amps fail, I don't think this is for me. I had to junk 1 sub as the amps were no longer available. The other was salvageable after replacing the amp, but the amp was only available from the manufacturer, so kind of a captive audience there.

What does one do when their speaker blows and amp and it's no longer available? $100 speaker, dump it in the trash and buy a replacement. $3,000 speaker...?

What subwoofers were they? How old?
I think your problem would not exist if you bought from the big 4 ID sub manufacturers:
Hsu, PSA, SVS, & Rythmik all have excellent reputations and you don't get that by gouging your customer on replacement parts if your product fails the customer's expectation.

 

[Defcon]

IMO the future should be digital sound delivery. All data can be sent over network IP without any signal loss inherent in audio cables. The speaker just needs a network port and with coming high speed wifi standards can easily be wireless too.

 

[lovinthehd]

IMO the future should be digital sound delivery. All data can be sent over network IP without any signal loss inherent in audio cables. The speaker just needs a network port and with coming high speed wifi standards can easily be wireless too.

What about the wired connections between wireless receiver/amp/drivers?

 

[Defcon]

What about the wired connections between wireless receiver/amp/drivers?

Do you mean the wire inside the speaker? I'm talking about making each speaker IP addressable and sending all data to it over standard IP networks, then the speaker's amp/DAC converts it into audio.

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you mean the wire inside the speaker? I'm talking about making each speaker IP addressable and sending all data to it over standard IP networks, then the speaker's amp/DAC converts it into audio.

I'm just saying you can't take wire out of the equation, whether longer or shorter lengths of it. The speaker's dac after conversion still needs to amplify and deliver that amplification to the drivers.... via wires.

 

[slipperybidness]

I like the JBL LSR series for that reason.

OTOH, when you look at how inexpensive, yet reliable class D amp boards are, you can start to be aware of an opportunity for huge markups in exchange for not much more than convenience.

In the case of the JBL LSR series, it appears you are getting a great deal and performance wise, you kind of are, but you are likely aware you are actually paying about what it should cost for drivers that perform well enough in plastic enclosures from a mass manufacturer, if you stop to think about it.

On the JBL in particular, I have a hunch that quite a bit of your $ is going into the research for that fancy wave guide. These newer generation models have also dropped some of the features/connection options that the older generation had. Needed to cut the costs somewhere to maintain a healthy profit margin.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After having 2 subwoofers with built in amps have the amps fail, I don't think this is for me. I had to junk 1 sub as the amps were no longer available. The other was salvageable after replacing the amp, but the amp was only available from the manufacturer, so kind of a captive audience there.

What does one do when their speaker blows and amp and it's no longer available? $100 speaker, dump it in the trash and buy a replacement. $3,000 speaker...?

Ah, another fellow believer in external amps for speakers and subs!

I'm like that too.

I don't mind an "ACTIVE" system as long as the amp is EXTERNAL - you know like how a lot of audiophiles swear by having external amps and absolutely abhor AVRs or internal amps in electronics?

If it doesn't make sense to have amps inside the AVRs or processors, why does it all of the sudden make sense to have amps inside speakers and subwoofers that vibrate?

My Linkwitz Orion speakers were Active, but at least the 8Ch of amps were external (ATI AT6012 amp).

The NHT active system also uses external amps, not internal amps.

I believe Eikon, Meridian, and Legacy speakers have internal amps.

IMO, the only thing worth having active is the subwoofer/woofer/bass.

I don't care to mess around with the midrange or treble.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Active subwoofer, built-in internal amp, vibration over time.

I have seen boards removed from powered subs that failed. Most of the solder was severely cracked and in places it had completely vibrated off or partially vibrated off.

For reliability issues over time, external amps for subs might be a better alternative.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Active subwoofer, built-in internal amp, vibration over time.

I have seen boards removed from powered subs that failed. Most of the solder was severely cracked and in places it had completely vibrated off or partially vibrated off.

For reliability issues over time, external amps for subs might be a better alternative.

Exactly.

I think it's double-standard when audiophiles claim that their systems sound better with external amps (Pre-pro or preamps + amps, instead of AVRs or Integrated Amps) and then WANTING to put amps and DSP (another dirty word) inside all their speakers and subwoofers!

 

[MrBoat]

On the JBL in particular, I have a hunch that quite a bit of your $ is going into the research for that fancy wave guide. These newer generation models have also dropped some of the features/connection options that the older generation had. Needed to cut the costs somewhere to maintain a healthy profit margin.

Well, that and pushing to get more products into people's homes with that technology than the other brands, now that so much is invested in it. I could see me upgrading to a higher end JBL product after what I got for my $ with their bargain speakers.

Moves like that can cement a generation of loyal customers at a time. Come to think of it, I had another Harman product perform well for me in the last 10 years too. I admit that when I think about buying commercial made speakers, I have initial high confidence with their offerings, instead of wading through the host of so called other "breakthroughs" of the more designer or boutiqueish brands selling me WAF and a piano slick finish.

 

[TheWarrior]

The complexity and limitations of passive crossovers (and component variability) makes the mass production of 'identical' loudspeakers a very expensive business model that may yield a heavily performance-compromised product.

The advantages and ever-lowering cost of active electronics provides many options for lowering manufacturing costs, as well.

I think the reliability of electronics is currently at an all time high - that is typically the component(s) that receives the longest warranty.

JBL M2 is arguably the most accurate mass-produced loudspeaker you can buy. The waveguide it introduced, and trickled down to the 7 and 3 series monitors, is brilliant. These speakers sound the same everywhere in the room, except at bass frequencies where the room is in control. The electronics of the M2 and 7 series are seldom built into loudspeakers, in that they are designed to be adaptable to any room through the use of DSP to manage room modes and trim levels to ensure the mids and highs are matched in output.

If you can live with their appearance (or have a room large enough to conceal them) I don't think you could ask for a better home theater, at any price.

 

[TheWarrior]

Well, that and pushing to get more products into people's homes with that technology than the other brands, now that so much is invested in it. I could see me upgrading to a higher end JBL product after what I got for my $ with their bargain speakers.

Moves like that can cement a generation of loyal customers at a time. Come to think of it, I had another Harman product perform well for me in the last 10 years too. I admit that when I think about buying commercial made speakers, I have initial high confidence with their offerings, instead of wading through the host of so called other "breakthroughs" of the more designer or boutiqueish brands selling me WAF and a piano slick finish.

You can always spend 3x more for Revel speakers and Mark Levinson electronics if it needs to look good!

 

[MrBoat]

You can always spend 3x more for Revel speakers and Mark Levinson electronics if it needs to look good!

I think JBL has the better look for what it actually does. The M2s are sweet. The 590's take a little getting used to but I'd rather have them over yet one more fancy veneered or damned piano black, lipstick tube shaped speaker. I love my S312's for all their chunky glory.

Time to send the "W," in WAF, off to stay with her mother for a spell until she comes to terms with what 50/50 partnerships actually means.