Marantz SR7011 or Yamaha rx-a2070 was comparison off?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Brought 7011 listened then 3070 and that is what I have now. 7011 in my room with my set up sounded 8.5/10... great warm sound, pushed center so actors were there right there in front of you... a couple of feet away... felt like you were at a Michael Bay film and right in the action. Music was good... sounded like band was on a flat stage and I was 6 rows back everything flowed to the middle. I heard all instruments and again all in the middle.

The a3070 on the other hand has different sound... movies were crisp... if something was stage left it was outside left speaker... watching sneaky Pete and something rolled from center stage to to stage left and it sounded as if the item was rolling off screen on the ground in front of me. Very technical and handed sound off seamlessly from center to front speaker. Watching movie was like being on the sound stage and I was the one directing or holding boom mic like action and dialogue were happening live in front of me with no headphones on... so quiet scenes were just that, outdoor scenes ere just that... speaking through ambient noise... so center was not in your face like 7011 but more distant and real life like. Music totally different... it was like I was at a real live show with vocals and drum kit centered guitar off to left or right and bass to the other end of the stage... separation was unbelievable. Very very technical.

It seems the Marantz sounded more DYNAMIC and LIVELY?

Was Audyssey Dynamic EQ turned on?

That's what I love about Dynamic EQ. I love my sound to be Dynamic and Lively because it makes the sound more exciting, not boring or "clinical".

IOW, I prefer the "larger than life" sound. I'm already living in a boring real life, I want to experience something larger than life.


So I would ask this - if money were no object, which sound did you prefer? The more lively and more dynamic sound or the technical sound ?

 

[20Glove]

It seems the Marantz sounded more DYNAMIC and LIVELY?

Was Audyssey Dynamic EQ turned on?

That's what I love about Dynamic EQ. I love my sound to be Dynamic and Lively because it makes the sound more exciting, not boring or "clinical".

IOW, I prefer the "larger than life" sound. I'm already living in a boring real life, I want to experience something larger than life.


So I would ask this - if money were no object, which sound did you prefer? The more lively and more dynamic sound or the technical sound ?

Yes Dynamic EQ was turned on. I like both of them I wish I could own both of them. I want to add an Emotiva 3 channel or 5 channel in the next year, I want to be able to afford it now, but I cannot so I want the best I can afford now. So the answer to your questions is I wish I could afford both. I love the "Dynamic and Lively" movies but I really like the "clinical" music and it is a tie when it comes to gaming. What I HATE about Yamaha is the menu system, it sucks!! Marantz menu system is great. I also dislike that the Yamaha has no multi channel in. But the Yamaha's build quality is amazing. I love the look of the Marantz but the porthole is useless, you have to have the door down to see what is going on with the Marantz. For the $ I paid for the 7011 it was worth every penny!! The $ I paid for the 3070 was overpriced, but the $ the 3060 (if it sounds like 3070) is at is a good deal but no warranty. I really wish I could have stayed with the 7011 or been able to buy it back after returning it, but it sold before I made my decision.

If prices were the same on 7011 and 3060 and I could get a warranty, either one would be good but I would lean towards the 7011. But overall, really, either one is a win win. But I would lean towards the 7011 and hope the Emotiva were clean up the music to where I would be excited to listen, like I am when watching a movie.

I used to own a now RIP NAD T775 V2, ($600+ to repair, hence the reason I am in the receiver game - refused to pay that) and it sounded awesome, lively in movies, technical in music, just plain clean. But it only lasted me 5 years. So its the only reason I would lean towards Yamaha at this point, build quality and reliability.

I read a lot of information about these units and reviews and tried to listen for myself, and I cannot tell you how many forums said the 7011 could not be compared to the 3070 or 3060 that it was more of a comparison to 2070/60 but I can tell you the 7011 was up there with the 3070/60 hands down. It is up there with my old NAD T775, the people who say Marantz cannot be compared to Yamaha is crazy. Marantz measures up to the best, at least to my ear.

 

[20Glove]

Congrats, now you have two different kind of sound in your house, actually 3 including the Onkyo right?. If you buy a Denon, then you can have 4 different one. Very interesting, but you hear what you hear so enjoy them all.

PENG, no I bought 7011 and listened/auditioned then returned it to listen/audition 3070 so all I have in my house is 3070. The store sold the 7011 about an hour after they put it back on their shelf. The 3070 sounds GREAT but so did 7011. They both had a different sound, but both were amazing. Menu is WAY BETTER on Marantz!! But Build Quality is WAY BETTER on Yamaha!! I just do not see an $800 difference in the two machines. So that is why I would have choose the 7011 if it was still available. But I could do the 3060 from a guy selling his on CL and still be at the price of the 7011 but no warranty. Returning the 3070 unless someone on here can convince me with the XLR inputs or something I am missing that there is an $800 difference.

 

[20Glove]

I would vote 3060 over 3070 and I really came close to buying a 3060 over the 2060 in October but I am also going to be adding an amp and pay that cost so I can go 5.1.4 so that is what held me back. (Just the cost difference). You have multiple excellent choices here. All will be good I’m sure. Good luck!

Thank you. Would you still choose the 3060 if you were buying from someone on CL? or would you do 3070 from authorized seller and get warranty?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I would lean towards the 7011...

My thinking is to not settle.

Keep an eye on another Marantz SR7000-series.

What was the price on the 7011?

A brand new one costs $1399.

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7011-technology-featuring-Bluetooth/dp/B01LPP7ZT2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1524500841&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=marantz+sr7011&psc=1&smid=A21759W3TJTNCB

Does your dealer have the Denon X4400 for you to audition?

I think the Denon X4400 (often on sale for $799 brand new) will sound every bit like the Marantz SR7011.

 

[20Glove]

My thinking is to not settle.

Keep an eye on another Marantz SR7000-series.

What was the price on the 7011?

A brand new one costs $1399.

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7011-technology-featuring-Bluetooth/dp/B01LPP7ZT2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1524500841&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=marantz+sr7011&psc=1&smid=A21759W3TJTNCB

Does your dealer have the Denon X4400 for you to audition?

I think the Denon X4400 (often on sale for $799 brand new) will sound every bit like the Marantz SR7011.

SR7011 was $900 out the door with tax.

I heard the Denon's have a bright sound to it, not warm like Marantz? Is this not true? I heard it is more Japanese tuning on Denon vs European Tuning on Marantz?

I thought the X6400 or X6300 would sound more like the SR7011? Would it be the X4400? or is the X64/6300 more like the A30 series for Yamaha?

Will the Denon have the Lively and Dynamic sound like you mentioned earlier?

I would love to have the Denon X6300 or 6400 due to being built in Japan but if you think the X4400 will sound more like the Sr7011, I could save some money.

Also, have you ever used a separate Amp? Like an Emotiva or Outlaw? Will that warm up the sound a bit if I get a Denon, do you know?

I may add Denon to my list if it is not a bright sound. I just am so kicking myself for losing out on the 7011.

Also would not be settling on the 3060, 3070, or 7011... I like the Marantz vs Yamaha sound for different reasons and the reason I don't I would have to get used to work each of the receiver's strengths. If we could clone the Yamaha on music and some video games and Marantz on movies and some video games... it would be perfect. But whichever I get, I will have to get used to the other parts that I do not love. Neither the Marantz or Yamaha as far as sound goes was bad, very good in fact... just different. Thanks for replying.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Will the Denon have the Lively and Dynamic sound like you mentioned earlier?

Also, have you ever used a separate Amp?

Yes, it has Audyssey XT32 Dynamic EQ. All the Denon X3000 and up have this.

I've been using separates (preamps, amps, pre-pros, integrated amps) for about 25 years.

Speakers I've own in the past: Revel Salon2, B&W 802D2, KEF 201/2, Linkwitz Orion 3.2.1, Philharmonic 3, and few others from TAD, ATC, Focal, Dynaudio, NHT, and Def Tech.

I currently own the Denon AVP-A1HDCI Pre-pro and ATI AT3005 and AT2005 amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

Personally this whole warm/cold thing by brand is a bunch of nonsense, particularly the idea that this signature sound is consistent over every model within the brand. More likely just what you've read going on in your head, especially the thought of "European" tuning vs "Japanese" tuning, now that's a new one I hadn't heard before. You envision a team of engineers that "tunes" the finished product designs somehow to create a signature sound? With Denon and Marantz owned by the same company for several years now, they're far more similar than different I think and any differences are extremely minor and will change with different sources/speakers/rooms...and moods even. Good luck in your search but maybe using dsp/eq to find your signature sound is what you're actually looking for....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

"European" tuning vs "Japanese" tuning, now that's a new one I hadn't heard before...

What about Australian tuning vs African tuning vs South American tuning?

I wonder which measurements could tell us about the "tuning"?

Frequency Response?

 

[lovinthehd]

What, no North 'merican tuning? We're the largest market, we should get our own tuning.

 

[PENG]

SR7011 was $900 out the door with tax.

I heard the Denon's have a bright sound to it, not warm like Marantz? Is this not true? I heard it is more Japanese tuning on Denon vs European Tuning on Marantz?

I thought the X6400 or X6300 would sound more like the SR7011? Would it be the X4400? or is the X64/6300 more like the A30 series for Yamaha?

Will the Denon have the Lively and Dynamic sound like you mentioned earlier?

I would love to have the Denon X6300 or 6400 due to being built in Japan but if you think the X4400 will sound more like the Sr7011, I could save some money.

Also, have you ever used a separate Amp? Like an Emotiva or Outlaw? Will that warm up the sound a bit if I get a Denon, do you know?

I may add Denon to my list if it is not a bright sound. I just am so kicking myself for losing out on the 7011.

Also would not be settling on the 3060, 3070, or 7011... I like the Marantz vs Yamaha sound for different reasons and the reason I don't I would have to get used to work each of the receiver's strengths. If we could clone the Yamaha on music and some video games and Marantz on movies and some video games... it would be perfect. But whichever I get, I will have to get used to the other parts that I do not love. Neither the Marantz or Yamaha as far as sound goes was bad, very good in fact... just different. Thanks for replying.

Short answer, no, it's not true. There should be no intended bright, warm, analytical, organic or whatever BS sound characteristic if the amp is designed to do it's job right. That is, amplify the signal accurately. Talks of the contrary are mostly from internet/dealers hearsay over the years (possibly true to a point in the old days).

Think about it, how would Marantz and Yamaha know to design for a particular type of intended/tuned bright or warm sound that would please most people? The best way to do it is to make the products transparent, just amplify the signal accurately let any tuning/EQ etc., optional by the users. They all advertise flat frequency response from 20 to 20,000 Hz after all.

As for a "tuned" sound, if the individual user prefers a little boosts and/or cuts here and there, they can find ways to do it to their taste. For example, engaging DEQ at volume below reference level, the sound would become "warmer", because of the low frequency boost. Adding an Emotiva, Outlaw, or Monolith amp etc., can be a good thing if you really need more power.

 

[PENG]

What, no North 'merican tuning? We're the largest market, we should get our own tuning.

Okay, but please define "Our own tuning", your "tune", or mine, or ADTG's??

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay, but please define "Our own tuning", your "tune", or mine, or ADTG's??

My tuning is called Audyssey Dynamic EQ Larger Than Life Tuning.

 

[20Glove]

Personally this whole warm/cold thing by brand is a bunch of nonsense, particularly the idea that this signature sound is consistent over every model within the brand. More likely just what you've read going on in your head, especially the thought of "European" tuning vs "Japanese" tuning, now that's a new one I hadn't heard before. You envision a team of engineers that "tunes" the finished product designs somehow to create a signature sound? With Denon and Marantz owned by the same company for several years now, they're far more similar than different I think and any differences are extremely minor and will change with different sources/speakers/rooms...and moods even. Good luck in your search but maybe using dsp/eq to find your signature sound is what you're actually looking for....

Is it the difference in DAC more important to the sound. Yamaha and Marantz definitely sound different. Equalization is not going to add separation, right? Or clarity for that matter, right? Clarity would come from more headroom, like external amp, or am I off on this?

 

[20Glove]

Between Denon and Marantz... you are going to hear same sound?? Marantz has the HDAM which is supsoose to make a difference? Agreed or disagree? From those reviews and audiophile forums you get that Marantz is just better for music. I can tell you... there is not an $800 difference in sound from 3070 to 7011. No way!

 

[20Glove]

But since denon and marantz are same company, it’s gotta be pretty close.

Realibility... Yamaha, denon, or marantz?

Customer service... which one of the 2?

 

[lovinthehd]

Is it the difference in DAC more important to the sound. Yamaha and Marantz definitely sound different. Equalization is not going to add separation, right? Or clarity for that matter, right? Clarity would come from more headroom, like external amp, or am I off on this?

DACs are a fairly mature technology, slight differences at best in the chip itself, maybe somewhat in the implementation. Different how? Which is more accurate? They have differet implementations of dsp/eq which is probably where the bigger differences lay. You compared in the only common mode, i.e. pure direct? With the same source and same speakers and level matched in the same room?

Between Denon and Marantz... you are going to hear same sound?? Marantz has the HDAM which is supsoose to make a difference? Agreed or disagree? From those reviews and audiophile forums you get that Marantz is just better for music. I can tell you... there is not an $800 difference in sound from 3070 to 7011. No way!

Denon and Marantz use similar dsp/eq so likely they'll sound more alike than different. Denon has ALS, Marantz has HDAM, BFD; both more marketing terms than anything IMO, "audiophile" reviews...meh. Most avrs are more distinguishable by feature set and their dsp/eq. Haven't played with a Yamaha but have two Denons in use, one Onkyo and an old Sony that I'm currently not using. YMMV.

But since denon and marantz are same company, it’s gotta be pretty close.

Realibility... Yamaha, denon, or marantz?

Customer service... which one of the 2?

Yamaha tends to get the nod on reliability the last several years by most reports. They apparently exercise more control over manufacturing in their own facilities in Malaysia. Denon/Marantz recently moved manufacturing from China to Vietnam altho with the same vendor IIRC; flagship units for Denon/Marantz believe still are made in their respective Japanese facilities but haven't seen an update on that in a while, and since the company was again recently sold (to Sound United), who knows what's going on right now. I've been in touch on a couple app issues with Denon in the last year, less than stellar service (waiting on an answer for a few days on my last ticket filed).

 

[snakeeyes]

Thank you. Would you still choose the 3060 if you were buying from someone on CL? or would you do 3070 from authorized seller and get warranty?

I believe they are $1595 no shipping or tax from IQ entertainment on Amazon and IQ is an authorized dealer so 3 yr warranty. Worth double boxing for a few bucks more at checkout.
Yes it is easier to spend other people’s money of course.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is it the difference in DAC more important to the sound.

In my 25YR experience, the 3 salient things are cost, features, and reliability. The rest are mainly marketing and myth.

If features (Audyssey Dynamic EQ or something else) is not a factor, then it comes down to cost and reliability.

As already mentioned, especially by @M Code in previous posts, Yamaha seems to have the advantage in terms of overall reliability. Some of us have had Denon AVRs that are still working after 9 years of use. I can't argue with statistics. But there is also the possibility that any Yamaha or Marantz could malfunction after 3 years also.

Nothing is for sure except for 2 things.

I think if Yamaha were to give in and adopt at least just Audyssey Dynamic EQ, I might become a fan of Yamaha. Maybe one day I may just try one out to see if Yamaha does have an answer/equivalent to Dynamic EQ.

However, cost vs reliability is another topic. If a $1,000 Denon AVR (like the X3000 series) can be bought on sale for $600 and it lasts me 10+ YR, I think that's a pretty good deal, considering how I absolutely love Dynamic EQ.

And if you are wondering if the Denon X3400 sounds as good as the Marantz and Yamaha AVRs you mentioned, you bet it does!

I just spent some time this last weekend comparing a Denon X3100 (which I paid $500) vs a $7,500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI Pre-pro. And I think the X3100 sounds just as good, which is probably a shocking statement.

 

[PENG]

Is it the difference in DAC more important to the sound. Yamaha and Marantz definitely sound different. Equalization is not going to add separation, right? Or clarity for that matter, right? Clarity would come from more headroom, like external amp, or am I off on this?

It depends, it does not take much for a DAC chip to have specs that are so good that it will not be the weak link. Of course equalization could improve separation and clarity, again it depends..