Upgrading from Denonx3000

K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
Hello guys,

I am new to this forum.

I am planning to upgrade my avr from Denon X3000 as it dont have new surround formats & no preouts and have below options in my mind,

Denon x4400
Marantz SR7011
Marantz SR6012

I am more inclined towards Marantz SR7011 as it is the flagship. I will be powering the front channel with my Adcom power amp.

Will there be a significant change in the sound quality once I upgrade?

Thanks
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello guys,

I am new to this forum.

I am planning to upgrade my avr from Denon X3000 as it dont have new surround formats & no preouts and have below options in my mind,

Denon x4400
Marantz SR7011
Marantz SR6012

I am more inclined towards Marantz SR7011 as it is the flagship. I will be powering the front channel with my Adcom power amp.

Will there be a significant change in the sound quality once I upgrade?

Thanks
If you can get the SR7011 for the same price or less go for it. Otherwise the avr-x4400h is better, being the current model and very comparable to the SR7011 in features and audio specs.

SR7011 was the ex flagship, now it is the SR8012.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Since you already have the Adcom amp, I would just get the Denon X3300/3400.

Someone on the forum just got the Denon X3400 from @DigitalDawn for $599 brand new.

I don't think you will hear any improvement going from the X3300/3400 to the X4400 or equivalent Marantz. They all have Audyssey XT32 and pre-outs.

If you are thinking of the getting the Marantz SR7011 for about $1400, I think you might as well get the AV7703 Pre-pro for $1450. It won't sound any better than the X3300/3400, but at least you'll have bragging rights to owing "separates". ;) :D

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-AV7703-Theater-Processor-Processing/dp/B01LPP7YMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522342682&sr=8-1&keywords=marantz+av+7703
 
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K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
Since you already have the Adcom amp, I would just get the Denon X3300/3400.

Someone on the forum just got the Denon X3400 from @DigitalDawn for $599 brand new.

I don't think you will hear any improvement going from the X3300/3400 to the X4400 or equivalent Marantz. They all have Audyssey XT32 and pre-outs.

If you are thinking of the getting the Marantz SR7011 for about $1400, I think you might as well get the AV7703 Pre-pro for $1450. It won't sound any better than the X3300/3400, but at least you'll have bragging rights to owing "separates". ;) :D

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-AV7703-Theater-Processor-Processing/dp/B01LPP7YMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522342682&sr=8-1&keywords=marantz+av+7703
Thank you for your reply.

Actually I am from India the cost of the SR7011 is quiet lesser when compared to the av7703. So I preffered it. Also I dont a big cost difference between 3400 and 7011 here. You know what 4400 cost higher than 7011 here since it is last years model. So I was inclining towards it. I havent heard a pre pro setup in the past so no idea how good it will be. Looking forward to a good high end audio experience.

The sad part is in India the Denonx4400 cost around $3000 equivalent India rupee.
 
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K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
If you can get the SR7011 for the same price or less go for it. Otherwise the avr-x4400h is better, being the current model and very comparable to the SR7011 in features and audio specs.

SR7011 was the ex flagship, now it is the SR8012.
yes you are right , actually 4400 is quiet high and another thing which made my heart go to marantz is the flagship symbol on 7011.;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Thank you for your reply.

Actually I am from India the cost of the SR7011 is quiet lesser when compared to the av7703. So I preffered it. Also I dont a big cost difference between 3400 and 7011 here. You know what 4400 cost higher than 7011 here since it is last years model. So I was inclining towards it. I havent heard a pre pro setup in the past so no idea how good it will be. Looking forward to a good high end audio experience.
I see. It seems the Marantz SR7011 might be the best option if it's about the same price as the X3400 and less expensive than the X4400 and AV7703.
 
K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
Yeah, but my main doubt is whether the upgrade will give me a significant change in the sound quality?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, but my main doubt is whether the upgrade will give me a significant change in the sound quality?
My 100% honest assessment is that the 3400/4400/7011 will not give you a significant sound quality improvement over the X3000.

I have the X3100 and the older AVR-3112. They both sound as good as any pre-pro when I use Audyssey XT Dynamic EQ.

The Audyssey mode I use is Audyssey Bypass L/R + Dynamic EQ.

Some people think that Audyssey XT32 is an improvement over Audyssey XT. Theoretically it is an improvement. But when I compared XT32 vs XT, I never heard any improvement. They both sound the same to me, which isn't better than BYPASS mode. :D

I've also heard Anthem's ARC, Emotiva's DIRAC, and McIntosh's Lyngdorf. I still prefer BYPASS over all these Room EQ.

The only thing I like from any of these EQ is the Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which sounds exactly the same to me on XT and XT32.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, but my main doubt is whether the upgrade will give me a significant change in the sound quality?
From my experience, XT32 SubEQ HT definitely offers audible improvements over XT in smoothing the 20-150 Hz range. Whether it is "significant" or not I have no idea because it is a subjective thing.

It sounds like the SR7011 is a better deal for you than the AVR-X4400H so you probably should go for it. It is last year's model so make sure it still comes with the full 3 year manufacturer's warranty.

As for the flag ship status that you seem to put some extra value on, be aware that Marantz flag ship has always been the 8000 series, not the 7000 series. For some reason they have skipped the 8000 series for many years, until now. So yes you can call the SR7011 a flag ship in 2016/17 due to the absence of the 8000 series models, but it really is more comparable to the Denon AVR-X4000 series, not quite a full fledged flag ship model as such. It probably doesn't matter anyway because to get the real flag ship model SR8012, you probably have to up your budget by 35 to 50%, hardly worth it.
 
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carlthess40

carlthess40

Audioholic
Mostly the denon and marantz have the same chips in them and are pretty much the same. I like both but do lean to the marantz as the do have a some what better mid range sound with my Klipsch speakers
Just my 2 cent
 
K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
From my experience, XT32 SubEQ HT definitely offers audible improvements over XT in smoothing the 20-150 Hz range. Whether it is "significant" or not I have no idea because it is a subjective thing.

It sounds like the SR7011 is a better deal for you than the AVR-X4400H so you probably should go for it. It is last year's model so make sure it still comes with the full 3 year manufacturer's warranty.

As for the flag ship status that you seem to put some extra value on, be aware that Marantz flag ship has always been the 8000 series, not the 7000 series. For some reason they have skipped the 8000 series for many years, until now. So yes you can call the SR7011 a flag ship in 2016/17 due to the absence of the 8000 series models, but it really is more comparable to the Denon AVR-X4000 series, not quite a full fledged flag ship model as such. It probably doesn't matter anyway because to get the real flag ship model SR8012, you probably have to up your budget by 35 to 50%, hardly worth it.
The 8012 is quiet costly when compared to the last years 7011. Even 7012 is higher , so I did not care about the new models. The change I am expecting is the Dolby atmos/dts X, Individual dual sub outputs instead of the Internal Y adapter on my existing denon x3000, 11.2 channel pre outs and some extra power.

And how they will musically sound. Any thoguhts on them. My Denon x3000 cant come near to be the entry level cambridge audio stereo for music.

My existing Denon does not support 4 ohm speakers. my center is actually a 4 ohm speaker but it still runs without problem. marantz sr7011 supports 4 ohms speakers so will the sound quality change when a 4 ohm speaker matched with 4 ohm supported amp? The question might sound silly but still wanted to know before I make the purchase.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The 8012 is quiet costly when compared to the last years 7011. Even 7012 is higher , so I did not care about the new models. The change I am expecting is the Dolby atmos/dts X, Individual dual sub outputs instead of the Internal Y adapter on my existing denon x3000, 11.2 channel pre outs and some extra power.

And how they will musically sound. Any thoguhts on them. My Denon x3000 cant come near to be the entry level cambridge audio stereo for music.

My existing Denon does not support 4 ohm speakers. my center is actually a 4 ohm speaker but it still runs without problem. marantz sr7011 supports 4 ohms speakers so will the sound quality change when a 4 ohm speaker matched with 4 ohm supported amp? The question might sound silly but still wanted to know before I make the purchase.
I have also compared my preamp/power amps with very old Denon 3805, the preamp happens to be a Cambridge Audio ex flagship, the Denon sounds just as good. So I am surprise to hear that your X3000 "cant come near to..... for music. Over the years, after spending thousands and thousands of dollars, I found that the quality of the recording is most important, followed by the speakers, room, media player, power amp, the preamp. For preamp/power amp/prepro/AVR, it doesn't cost much to get something that would approach or pass the point of diminishing return. ADTG will tell you the same.

Again, the 7011 has XT32 SubEQ HT, that was able to do a much better job smoothing the bass in my room so I know it is in fact a much improved version than XT. The 7011 is compatible with the $20 Audyssey editor app that allows you to do further fine tuning or customization post Audyssey run. If you don't use Audyssey then I doubt the improvements would be all that audible if you do a blind test. If you do a sighted test, the 7011 or even the 6012, will likely sound better, that's based on findings by those who have conducted controlled listening tests. If you expect it to sound better based on hearsay, pay more, better specs etc., it will sound better to you. It is a controversial, and highly subjective topic, but given that you felt an entry level CA (whatever it is) sounded so much better than your X3000, you will experience the same with the SR7011. I don't want to pour cold water, but do want to answer your questions based on my experience as much as possible. Hopefully others will chime in and express their opposite views, in the end you have to make up your own mind.
 
K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
I have also compared my preamp/power amps with very old Denon 3805, the preamp happens to be a Cambridge Audio ex flagship, the Denon sounds just as good. So I am surprise to hear that your X3000 "cant come near to..... for music. Over the years, after spending thousands and thousands of dollars, I found that the quality of the recording is most important, followed by the speakers, room, media player, power amp, the preamp. For preamp/power amp/prepro/AVR, it doesn't cost much to get something that would approach or pass the point of diminishing return. ADTG will tell you the same.

Again, the 7011 has XT32 SubEQ HT, that was able to do a much better job smoothing the bass in my room so I know it is in fact a much improved version than XT. The 7011 is compatible with the $20 Audyssey editor app that allows you to do further fine tuning or customization post Audyssey run. If you don't use Audyssey then I doubt the improvements would be all that audible if you do a blind test. If you do a sighted test, the 7011 or even the 6012, will likely sound better, that's based on findings by those who have conducted controlled listening tests. If you expect it to sound better based on hearsay, pay more, better specs etc., it will sound better to you. It is a controversial, and highly subjective topic, but given that you felt an entry level CA (whatever it is) sounded so much better than your X3000, you will experience the same with the SR7011. I don't want to pour cold water, but do want to answer your questions based on my experience as much as possible. Hopefully others will chime in and express their opposite views, in the end you have to make up your own mind.
Even this will be primarily for movies just had a thought in mind if this sounds good them I will sell of my stereo gear and have a single setup.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
Since you already have the Adcom amp, I would just get the Denon X3300/3400.

Someone on the forum just got the Denon X3400 from @DigitalDawn for $599 brand new.

I don't think you will hear any improvement going from the X3300/3400 to the X4400 or equivalent Marantz. They all have Audyssey XT32 and pre-outs.

If you are thinking of the getting the Marantz SR7011 for about $1400, I think you might as well get the AV7703 Pre-pro for $1450. It won't sound any better than the X3300/3400, but at least you'll have bragging rights to owing "separates". ;) :D

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-AV7703-Theater-Processor-Processing/dp/B01LPP7YMU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1522342682&sr=8-1&keywords=marantz+av+7703
Thanks for the referral!

We never sold the X3400 and we still have it available at $599. :)
 
K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
Actually in our country the landing cost after all the taxes, import fees and all bla bla bla. the price for even Denon x2400 is 70,000 INR when converted the cost is $1075USD.

Attached the snap shot. :(:(
 

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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Actually in our country the landing cost after all the taxes, import fees and all bla bla bla. the price for even Denon x2400 is 70,000 INR when converted the cost is $1075USD.

Attached the snap shot. :(:(
What a rip off.

Here in the USA, you can get the X2000 series on sale for $450 USD.
 
K

kaptan

Audioholic Intern
yes totally a rip off. I have been saving a lot to buy the amp.

U know how much Marantz SR7011 cost. Can u predict it?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
yes totally a rip off. I have been saving a lot to buy the amp.

U know how much Marantz SR7011 cost. Can u predict it?
In the US, even at launched time, people wouldn't pay more than $1799, now a year later, I would say US$999 to $1199 at the most. $300 to $400 more in C$ in Canada.

Edit: key word "more" missing:D:D
 
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