Dramatic Story unfolding in Salisbury (Old Sarum) Wiltshire. Good for a movie already

[Irvrobinson]

So now the Russians have expelled 23 British diplomats, signaling (and actually saying) they will go tit-for-tat with the British. I think what they say about wrestling with pigs fits here.

 

[jinjuku]

Used to be back in the 60's and 70's our and Brittany's clandestine services would have been allowed sanctions.

Ex KGB have migrated to Israel before but none of them offed. I wonder why? What could be the reason that Russia GRU doesn't perform a hit in Israel...

 

[shadyJ]

Used to be back in the 60's and 70's our and Brittany's clandestine services would have been allowed sanctions.

Ex KGB have migrated to Israel before but none of them offed. I wonder why? What could be the reason that Russia GRU doesn't perform a hit in Israel...

Isreal isn't doing anything to piss Russia off. Besides that Isreal has a large community of Russian jews, so they have a much greater support network. I would imagine their ties to Russia are a lot closer than anything in England or the USA.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Used to be back in the 60's and 70's our and Brittany's clandestine services would have been allowed sanctions.

Ex KGB have migrated to Israel before but none of them offed. I wonder why? What could be the reason that Russia GRU doesn't perform a hit in Israel...

Dr. Hemlock would do it for a Monet...

 

[jinjuku]

Isreal isn't doing anything to piss Russia off. Besides that Isreal has a large community of Russian jews, so they have a much greater support network. I would imagine their ties to Russia are a lot closer than anything in England or the USA.

It's because the Israeli clandestine services will not tolerate that sort of action on their soil. You would see a direct and proportional response to this. I.E. some Russian assets would be killed.

Russia gets away with this stuff because Britain is using a new playbook, Russian is using the old playbook and this grey war has now become asymmetric. I.E. they are tacitly permitted to do this because they KNOW there will be no response in kind from the British.

 

[TLS Guy]

British PM speaking today.

By the way, there is clearly a Russian troll/bot writing in the comments section of the Minneapolis Star Tribune today. We all need to watch out for this. Bot spotted and other commenters having fun with it.

 

[shadyJ]

It's because the Israeli clandestine services will not tolerate that sort of action on their soil. You would see a direct and proportional response to this. I.E. some Russian assets would be killed.

Russia gets away with this stuff because Britain is using a new playbook, Russian is using the old playbook and this grey war has now become asymmetric. I.E. they are tacitly permitted to do this because they KNOW there will be no response in kind from the British.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If England wanted to assassinate Russians, they wouldn't want to appear thuggish about it by doing it for the whole world to see. But if it is in England's national interest to kill Russians, I don't doubt for a moment that they have the will to do so. IF England was going to retaliate in kind, you probably wouldn't see it on the news; they are likely too savvy for that.

 

[shadyJ]

By the way, there is clearly a Russian troll/bot writing in the comments section of the Minneapolis Star Tribune today. We all need to watch out for this. Bot spotted and other commenters having fun with it.

How do you know its a Russian troll and not a sincere, hard right-wing nutter? I have to say, the blowback from the exposure of all these Russian bots is a bit amusing. Now there is always going to be a specter of doubt when you see a comment from some right-wing blowhard; is it a sincere opinion or is it a paid troll from Russia? This undercuts Russia's attempts at engineering a consensus of popular opinion toward a more nationalist agenda.

 

[TLS Guy]

How do you know its a Russian troll and not a sincere, hard right-wing nutter? I have to say, the blowback from the exposure of all these Russian bots is a bit amusing. Now there is always going to be a specter of doubt when you see a comment from some right-wing blowhard; is it a sincere opinion or is it a paid troll from Russia? This undercuts Russia's attempts at engineering a consensus of popular opinion toward a more nationalist agenda.

Well in the UK it would be left wing nutters, not the right. It is the UK the hard left including the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn, who are so enamored with Russia. Corbyn refuses to call out Russia and condemn them. His Labor mob have a regular spot on a Russian TV program, Russia today. The Labor party still sing Keep the Red Flag Flying at their yearly party conference and at other times, while flying the red flag. Actually fascism is where the far right and left come full circle. In Italy you can see it in both the far right and far left that is enamored with Putin. In the UK Putin admiration is to all intense and purposes confined to the hard left. As I have said before the left own fascism more than do the right.

Anyhow there is no doubt that Russia is now a fascist police state. Unfortunately there are roots of dormant fascism starting to sprout all over the Europe at present. The Momentum movement in the UK is one of the most virulent shoots, and having a very destructive effect in the universities. This is very similar the rise of the Fabian movement at the turn of the previous century. This one however is in my view being amplified by social media.

 

[shadyJ]

Well in the UK it would be left wing nutters, not the right. It is the UK the hard left including the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn, who are so enamored with Russia. Corbyn refuses to call out Russia and condemn them. His Labor mob have a regular spot on a Russian TV program, Russia today. The Labor party still sing Keep the Red Flag Flying at their yearly party conference and at other times, while flying the red flag. Actually fascism is where the far right and left come full circle. In Italy you can see it in both the far right and far left that is enamored with Putin. In the UK Putin admiration is to all intense and purposes confined to the hard left. As I have said before the left own fascism more than do the right.

Anyhow there is no doubt that Russia is now a fascist police state. Unfortunately there are roots of dormant fascism starting to sprout all over the Europe at present. The Momentum movement in the UK is one of the most virulent shoots, and having a very destructive effect in the universities. This is very similar the rise of the Fabian movement at the turn of the previous century. This one however is in my view being amplified by social media.

Of course I don't agree that the left own fascism more than right, but it is insane that any UK leftists would want any association with modern Russia, which is like a capitalist dystopian nightmare. However, I do know that Russia was pulling for Brexit, so their meddling doesn't cater exclusively to leftists. The problem is nationalism. The more nationalist nations become, the more fractured the world gets, and the more the world becomes fractured, the more Russia benefits.

 

[TLS Guy]

Of course I don't agree that the left own fascism more than right, but it is insane that any UK leftists would want any association with modern Russia, which is like a capitalist dystopian nightmare. However, I do know that Russia was pulling for Brexit, so their meddling doesn't cater exclusively to leftists. The problem is nationalism. The more nationalist nations become, the more fractured the world gets, and the more the world becomes fractured, the more Russia benefits.

I think you are confusing the hard and moderate left.

William Hague, former Tory part leader and a former foreign secretary, penned a well written and thought out article about the pretty near total collapse of the moderate left in Europe recently. This is very serious, and not likely to end well. I suspect this collapse of the moderate left in Europe is difficult for Americans to understand, as we have nothing comparable yet. It is very easy to see how the hard left are enamored with Putin. The hard left is highly authoritarian. Momentum and their allies Incite have been acting like thugs in the UK and with the tacit approval of the new leadership of the labor party. The Parliamentry Labor party are aghast and contradicted their leader in the House voiciferously at Question Time over their leader Corbyn's stance, and so did the left leaning SNP.

Momentum are now in control of the Labor party and the Parliamentry party has lost control. They are seriously worried about deselection by their constituency parties prior to the next election. So there is now talk of Labor MPs resigning the whip and sitting as independent Labor MPs.

I actually thing this crisis in the Labor is a factor in emboldening Putin at this time.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... However, I do know that Russia was pulling for Brexit, so their meddling doesn't cater exclusively to leftists. The problem is nationalism. The more nationalist nations become, the more fractured the world gets, and the more the world becomes fractured, the more Russia benefits.

Of course. The old adage "United we stand, divided we fall" is true.
Fracture the EU and other places, and they win.

 

[TLS Guy]

Of course. The old adage "United we stand, divided we fall" is true.
Fracture the EU and other places, and they win.

Unfortunately the EU is in so many ways responsible for this, especially in South Med. The EU became in so many ways the image of the USSR. The monetary policy in the Eurozone has been a prime mover in this.

 

[jinjuku]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If England wanted to assassinate Russians, they wouldn't want to appear thuggish about it by doing it for the whole world to see. But if it is in England's national interest to kill Russians, I don't doubt for a moment that they have the will to do so. IF England was going to retaliate in kind, you probably wouldn't see it on the news; they are likely too savvy for that.

I would. By the fact Russia's FSB running sanctions in England. That's the point... If there was any quid pro they wouldn't be doing it with impunity.

 

[TLS Guy]

It seems they likely put the nerve agent in the car ventilation system.

Seems they will try and hit Putin where it hurts.

Putin has 70% of the vote.

This is funny.

 

[Swerd]

The Washington Post ran an interesting opinion piece written by Jackson Diehl, Deputy Editorial Page Writer

Why hasn't Britain been able to stop Putin? Ask Jeremy Corbyn.

"Why have Britain and its NATO allies been unable to deter Vladimir Putin from acts like spreading deadly nerve agent in a peaceful British city? Ask Jeremy Corbyn.

When confronted with his government’s conclusion that Russia was responsible for what amounted to a military attack on his country, the opposition Labour Party leader and his spokesman (a) refused to accept that the Kremlin was responsible, (b) cast doubt on British intelligence, (c) complained that Moscow had not been accorded due process and (d) said the right response was "robust dialogue". In other words, Corbyn echoed almost exactly the line advanced by Putin’s own propagandists.

Then there was President Trump…"​

Americans, myself included, have to be reminded who Jeremy Corbyn is. This opinion article makes the point that Russian money seems to influence both Corbyn and Trump despite their otherwise different political positions.

 

[Swerd]

Russian Nationals Named as Suspects in Salisbury Novichok Poisoning
See https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45421445

 

[TLS Guy]

Russian Nationals Named as Suspects in Salisbury Novichok Poisoning
See https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45421445

Yes, this is totally disgraceful conduct on the part of the Russians.

More here.