My cheaper Marantz vs my higher end stuff...

[Verdinut]

I use the Shure M-97xE too at present. I find that it performs very well. I also own a V15 Type III which also performs well which I am not using for the moment, and which I might decide to sell eventually.

 

[TechHDS]

Umm, I have the Audio-Technica's, AT-LP120-
SUB Direct Drive with the Shure M-97xE cartridge, it's about 5 years old and has performed flawlessly. Like 'lovinthehd' stated in his post he is spot on about the cartridge. Don't think I would spend much more but I have in the past on expensive cartridges that cost what the TT cost me.. thought about getting one a little higher with the carbon fiber arm and all that but for $250.00 does the job, sure it's not as aesthetically pleasing to the eyes as some of the upper end turntables does a very nice job with my Vinyl.

 

[sterling shoote]

Umm, I have the Audio-Technica's, AT-LP120-
SUB Direct Drive with the Shure M-97xE cartridge, it's about 5 years old and has performed flawlessly. Like 'lovinthehd' stated in his post he is spot on about the cartridge. Don't think I would spend much more but I have in the past on expensive cartridges that cost what the TT cost me.. thought about getting one a little higher with the carbon fiber arm and all that but for $250.00 does the job, sure it's not as aesthetically pleasing to the eyes as some of the upper end turntables does a very nice job with my Vinyl.

I have been very pleased with the V15V-MR; but, I also recently purchased an M97xE; and, I've gotta tell ya, I can hardly discern a distinction between these cartridges on most of the vinyl I own. In fact, I probably would not know one from the other for most of my vinyl. Seems like a really good value.

 

[ematthews]

Yes that makes sense, you may re-visit my post#37, 50 and highfigh's post#50. We got your apparent issue covered in details. Basically it stems from the fact that you were comparing two different gain structures, one offered by the main preouts (Marantz), the other the subout (P5 and ATI2002). To make things simple, compare both using RCA, no subwoofer and all crossover switches/filters turned off/full range, but you know that one already.

Basically there are no "troubles" with either setup, just different gain structure way you did it. If volume matched, without the sub in the picture, they should sound the same or only slightly different. Even with the sub in the picture, the results will be the same if you volume match the sub using the P5's front level control as you mentioned.

Call me stupid but looking at the P5 set up guide, which out connection would I run the R/L RCA out from the P5 to the sub?? There are a few options and the OM doesn't really specify. I am running a single subwoofer cable currently out from the sub controls.

 

[PENG]

Call me stupid but looking at the P5 set up guide, which out connection would I run the R/L RCA out from the P5 to the sub?? There are a few options and the OM doesn't really specify. I am running a single subwoofer cable currently out from the sub controls.

Not at all, you made a valid point, that's why I mentioned the alternative, that is, still use the subout but use the front knob to level match. To be 100% sure you should measure the output voltage with a decent meter or at least play a tone and use a spl meter. As you mentioned yourself, turning the front knob to maximum should do the trick, as chance is good that when it is at maximum the output will be the same as that from the main preouts, but I am just not 100% sure.

So back to the 100% sure option, you would have to use two Y-splitters (one can work, but again for 100% accuracy you need two). That way, you can feed both the power amp and the sub. Luckily you SB12-NSD has separate left and right RCA input, otherwise you would need a 3rd Y-splitter.

IMO the best solution is to do the AB comparison without the subwoofer, then all you have to do is level match the two set up.

 

[ematthews]

Not at all, you made a valid point, that's why I mentioned the alternative, that is, still use the subout but use the front knob to level match. To be 100% sure you should measure the output voltage with a decent meter or at least play a tone and use a spl meter. As you mentioned yourself, turning the front knob to maximum should do the trick, as chance is good that when it is at maximum the output will be the same as that from the main preouts, but I am just not 100% sure.

So back to the 100% sure option, you would have to use two Y-splitters (one can work, but again for 100% accuracy you need two). That way, you can feed both the power amp and the sub. Luckily you SB12-NSD has separate left and right RCA input, otherwise you would need a 3rd Y-splitter.

IMO the best solution is to do the AB comparison without the subwoofer, then all you have to do is level match the two set up.

Thanks
I did the two comparisons without sub and could not really tell a difference. It was narrowed down to the way they feed the sub that makes the big difference. And now I know about the gain has to be turned up on the P5.

 

[PENG]

Thanks
I did the two comparisons without sub and could not really tell a difference. It was narrowed down to the way they feed the sub that makes the big difference. And now I know about the gain has to be turned up on the P5.

That's great, thanks for the feedback. You should save your budget for the best speakers and EQ you can get for further improvements. Your current electronics should be good for a long time. Well, the NR1506 could be a little in terms of output but if you listen to music near field at 75 dB average or less, it should do just as good too.

 

[ematthews]

That's great, thanks for the feedback. You should save your budget for the best speakers and EQ you can get for further improvements. Your current electronics should be good for a long time. Well, the NR1506 could be a little in terms of output but if you listen to music near field at 75 dB average or less, it should do just as good too.

I also have a few other speakers in the mix that I am currently not using. I'd like to upgrade my 2.0-2.1 system a bit with better electronics and maybe speakers. I even thought about picking up the Klipsch RF7 2's at their sale price just to have a big rocking system for music only. Those are tempting since I already have accurate speakers like the Kef's and RAAL towers.
Kef LS50
Kef Q100
Ascend CMB-170

 

[highfigh]

Thanks
I did the two comparisons without sub and could not really tell a difference. It was narrowed down to the way they feed the sub that makes the big difference. And now I know about the gain has to be turned up on the P5.

As long as the sub's input sensitivity and P5's output control can be adjusted to reach the balance you want, you should be fine- set the crossover frequency to the highest and use the sub's control to hit the frequency needed. If you'll switch the system frequently enough that re-setting the sub's input level is a pain, maybe the marks on the control on the sub can be used.

All the input control does is change the requirement for voltage needed to produce a specific output level (sensitivity), but the amplifier's gain is fixed. It's unlikely that the level from the P5 will be so high that the sub's input will be over-driven. 'Output level' is the proper name for the control on the P5 (or any volume control on a source device).

 

[PENG]

I also have a few other speakers in the mix that I am currently not using. I'd like to upgrade my 2.0-2.1 system a bit with better electronics and maybe speakers. I even thought about picking up the Klipsch RF7 2's at their sale price just to have a big rocking system for music only. Those are tempting since I already have accurate speakers like the Kef's and RAAL towers.
Kef LS50
Kef Q100
Ascend CMB-170

I wouldn't consider the Q100 accurate, so now you have an excuse to get another pair (hint: Revel's). Accurate ones are still superior because then you can EQ them. I used to think pure direct is a great thing but now I believe it belongs to the past. When you think about it, whether you like it or not, the media source (even vinyls) you play have already been EQ'ed upstream. In fact you suffered from EQ even when attending live concerts. Less so for me because I prefer classical music concerts.

We don't call them sound engineers for no reason.

 

[ematthews]

So no RF7 2’s then. I think my Ascend Towers and Kef LS50 are acurate. That’s why I was looking for a more fun big tower speaker to just play loud. More for when I’m not sitting and just focusing on the music. I could only get Revel book shelf speakers with the Klipsch budget.

 

[PENG]

So no RF7 2’s then. I think my Ascend Towers and Kef LS50 are acurate. That’s why I was looking for a more fun big tower speaker to just play loud. More for when I’m not sitting and just focusing on the music. I could only get Revel book shelf speakers with the Klipsch budget.

True, Revel book shelves won't do it. Go Klipsch then, @KEW or yepifire may be able to help you narrow down the model.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was looking for a more fun big tower speaker to just play loud.

I think you have enough of these smaller offerings.

So you have $2,500 saved up now. Save up another $2,500 and get yourself a Tower of Power like the RBH SVT Tower with big ribbon tweeters that you love and big bass to satisfy your big dynamics appetite.

 

[ematthews]

I think you have enough of these smaller offerings.

So you have $2,500 saved up now. Save up another $2,500 and get yourself a Tower of Power like the RBH SVT Tower with big ribbon tweeters that you love and big bass to satisfy your big dynamics appetite.

Yeah Yeah, but that Marantz has my name on it..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah Yeah, but that Marantz has my name on it..

It is pretty.

 

[ematthews]

I think in my small audio room the Marantz Reference driving bookshelves and a sub would be perfect. Leave the big RBH to my HT den system. My den is 20x18. My audio room is small. I need to be smart about my decisions this time around.

 

[Pogre]

I'm using a SR6011 as my prepro (and power my surrounds), with a monolith 7 and absolutely love it. I wouldn't want to go without XT32/SubEQ or DEQ. IMO, IME, you can't beat the feature set of an AVR for the price and (also IMO) sq doesn't suffer at all.

 

[ematthews]

I'm using a SR6011 as my prepro (and power my surrounds), with a monolith 7 and absolutely love it. I wouldn't want to go without XT32/SubEQ or DEQ. IMO, IME, you can't beat the feature set of an AVR for the price and (also IMO) sq doesn't suffer at all.

Even for a person who is super critical about his audio only set up? I have been told by many that an AVR will be as good as any dedicated 2.0 audio amp/preamp set up. I have also read the opposite that they wont. Hard to sway old thinking ways that I have. This is why I have always kept both systems separate but am really tempted to change that.

 

[Pogre]

Even for a person who is super critical about his audio only set up? I have been told by many that an AVR will be as good as any dedicated 2.0 audio amp/preamp set up. I have also read the opposite that they wont. Hard to sway old thinking ways that I have. This is why I have always kept both systems separate but am really tempted to change that.

There's nothing wrong with a dedicated 2.0 setup, but I think you can save some money on equipment and still get amazing results. Not long ago I got to listen to this setup.

Of course I was pretty floored, but when I got home and played the same song on my system...

I was pleasantly surprised at what I heard because it approached the same level of sq as that 100k system I'd heard just days prior. I know audio memory is very fleeting, but I'm sure if my system sounded like absolute crap compared to the B&W/McIntosh setup I'd have noticed it and probably would be looking for something new right now.

 

[ematthews]

Nice. And nice set up there.