My cheaper Marantz vs my higher end stuff...

[ematthews]

It seems like the Parasound P5 has been an unhappy experience from the start.

I think it's time to finally say goodbye to the P5 and start a new chapter, whether it is a Marantz Integrated Amp or Marantz Pre-pro + ATI AT2002.

If you like strong subwoofer signal, I think you may be a good candidate for Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

Have you ever experimented with Audyssey Dynamic EQ?

I haven't. And yes.... I've had issue with the P5 this entire time. Hook me up with a good pre or integrated suggestion.

 

[Pogre]

I haven't. And yes.... I've had issue with the P5 this entire time. Hook me up with a good pre or integrated suggestion.

Does your Marantz have preouts that you can connect to an amp or do you need the whole shebang? I'm using an SR6011 as my prepro and a Monolith 7 (ATI) amp.

ATDG brings up a great point for Audyssey, DEQ and bass response. I definitely use it myself and love what it does for my bass response.

 

[ematthews]

Does your Marantz have preouts that you can connect to an amp or do you need the whole shebang? I'm using an SR6011 as my prepro and a Monolith 7 (ATI) amp.

ATDG brings up a great point for Audyssey, DEQ and bass response. I definitely use it myself and love what it does for my bass response.

Yes it does. They are used to connect the sub, so I couldn't use it as a pre and run my sub.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I haven't. And yes.... I've had issue with the P5 this entire time. Hook me up with a good pre or integrated suggestion.

Integrated: Marantz PM14S1

Pre-Pro: Marantz AV7704

 

[Pogre]

Yes it does. They are used to connect the sub, so I couldn't use it as a pre and run my sub.

I just looked up your Marantz integrated amp. It's a very nice amplifier but lacks a sub out and has only basic tone controls. I'm one of those guys who believes that you get a lot of bang for your buck with a good avr. I really like Audyssey and DEQ.

A good receiver should sound just as good as an integrated amp, IMO, and you can get one with all the preouts you need to feed lfe to your subs and full range to your separate amp with a lot more control.

 

[ematthews]

Integrated: Marantz PM14S1

Pre-Pro: Marantz AV7704

What about the AV7703...

 

[highfigh]

So I just did an hour of playback on both systems. I eliminated the sub all together. Same two set ups running the Polk LSMI 703 at full range. Volume was set at 9:00 on both. So the outcome was much closer this time around. The only sound difference that I could tell was the Marantz did seem a touch warmer. Also at the 9:00 setting the Marantz was a touch louder. So the conclusion is the bass from the sub is much greater using the Marantz and the sub controls. In fact, I think I have always had a volume issue with the sub on the P5. I have to crank up the volume knob on the sub way up to get good output. As I said in the above post, I had to turn the sub volume down to 50% when I hooked up the Marantz.... So what the hell is wrong with the Parasound P5 when using a sub??

[/QUOTE]

Did you use the HP output from the P5, or the XLR output? What crossover frequency did you use?

Why don't you call Parasosund?

Again, the position of the volume control being at 9:00 means nothing because the rate of change is different.

You need to compare both systems by connecting them in the same way- a preamp's output can be much higher than the sub out and in the case if the Parasound, I can almost guarantee it- most subwoofers would distort badly if they saw 7V, which is the max output from the P5. Maybe the Marantz manual shows the output voltage- the specs area on their site doesn't. Also, look at the specs for the sub and find the input sensitivity- if it's below about 2 Volts for rated output, this might explain the difference in sound.

Marantz has been described as 'warm' in the past- whether its response is totally flat or not, needs to be seen. Two amps that have completely flat response and similar distortion shouldn't sound so different that one is described as 'warm'- the Marantz specs show the CD input response, but not the power amp's response (5-100KHz +/-3dB. The ATI specs show 20-20KHz +/-.1dB. The P5 shows 10-100KHz +0/-3dB.

The only way to find out why this difference is heard is by knowing ALL of the output and input voltage specs.

 

[KEW]

Certainly no problem with you buying the $$$ gear, but if you want to check out Audyssey dynamicEQ first, your NR1506 has it!

I think these slim-line units are often over-looked, but for a smaller 5 channel HT, you can use the R+L pre-outs to feed an external amp for your mains and let the AVR amps take the remaining 3 channels.

 

[PENG]

[

By the way, now that you have eliminated the subwoofer (a necessary step), please make sure you turn off the P5's high pass crossover switch for the mains so that your Polks are getting full range when hooked up to the ATI power amp.

I did. All turned off on the P5. So things were almost undetectable on playback as mentioned above without the sub in the mix. So the difference is the sub feed with Preout on the Marantz and the P5 having the dedicated sub output. It's as if the P5 doesn't send a strong enough signal to the sub. So the sub doesn't get very loud.[/QUOTE]

If you want to compare the two setup with the subwoofer on then you can set the dedicated sub out to full range and adjust the subwoofer level knob on the front of the P5 to volume match the subwoofer first. Or feed the sub with the same main preouts.

 

[PENG]

I did. All turned off on the P5. So things were almost undetectable on playback as mentioned above without the sub in the mix. So the difference is the sub feed with Preout on the Marantz and the P5 having the dedicated sub output. It's as if the P5 doesn't send a strong enough signal to the sub. So the sub doesn't get very loud.

If you want to compare the two setup with the subwoofer on then you can set the dedicated sub out to full range and adjust the subwoofer level know on the front of the P5 to volume match the subwoofer first.

The P5 wouldn't be my choice of preamp but I am sure it is a very accurate preamp, based on the specs, the Parasound Halo badge and most importantly the Stereophile measurements. I just don't prefer preamp that has build in DAC.

 

[ematthews]

If you want to compare the two setup with the subwoofer on then you can set the dedicated sub out to full range and adjust the subwoofer level know on the front of the P5 to volume match the subwoofer first.

The P5 wouldn't be my choice of preamp but I am sure it is a very accurate preamp, based on the specs, the Parasound Halo badge and most importantly the Stereophile measurements. I just don't prefer preamp that has build in DAC.

If you had a preamp preference, what would it be with a 2500 budget? 2.1 audio set up.

 

[ematthews]

Did you use the HP output from the P5, or the XLR output? What crossover frequency did you use?

Why don't you call Parasosund?

Again, the position of the volume control being at 9:00 means nothing because the rate of change is different.

You need to compare both systems by connecting them in the same way- a preamp's output can be much higher than the sub out and in the case if the Parasound, I can almost guarantee it- most subwoofers would distort badly if they saw 7V, which is the max output from the P5. Maybe the Marantz manual shows the output voltage- the specs area on their site doesn't. Also, look at the specs for the sub and find the input sensitivity- if it's below about 2 Volts for rated output, this might explain the difference in sound.

Marantz has been described as 'warm' in the past- whether its response is totally flat or not, needs to be seen. Two amps that have completely flat response and similar distortion shouldn't sound so different that one is described as 'warm'- the Marantz specs show the CD input response, but not the power amp's response (5-100KHz +/-3dB. The ATI specs show 20-20KHz +/-.1dB. The P5 shows 10-100KHz +0/-3dB.

The only way to find out why this difference is heard is by knowing ALL of the output and input voltage specs.[/QUOTE]



I did not use the sub at all in this playback test. Both set ups were exactly the same in this case.

 

[highfigh]

Did you use the HP output from the P5, or the XLR output? What crossover frequency did you use?

Why don't you call Parasosund?

Again, the position of the volume control being at 9:00 means nothing because the rate of change is different.

You need to compare both systems by connecting them in the same way- a preamp's output can be much higher than the sub out and in the case if the Parasound, I can almost guarantee it- most subwoofers would distort badly if they saw 7V, which is the max output from the P5. Maybe the Marantz manual shows the output voltage- the specs area on their site doesn't. Also, look at the specs for the sub and find the input sensitivity- if it's below about 2 Volts for rated output, this might explain the difference in sound.

Marantz has been described as 'warm' in the past- whether its response is totally flat or not, needs to be seen. Two amps that have completely flat response and similar distortion shouldn't sound so different that one is described as 'warm'- the Marantz specs show the CD input response, but not the power amp's response (5-100KHz +/-3dB. The ATI specs show 20-20KHz +/-.1dB. The P5 shows 10-100KHz +0/-3dB.

The only way to find out why this difference is heard is by knowing ALL of the output and input voltage specs.

I did not use the sub at all in this playback test. Both set ups were exactly the same in this case.[/QUOTE]

I know, but if you want to get to the bottom of this, it needs to be tried again, with the sub fed from the preamp out of the P5.

 

[PENG]

If you had a preamp preference, what would it be with a 2500 budget? 2.1 audio set up.

For me it is all about accuracy so I would pick one that has the best specs, class A, and bench tested by the Stereophile or Gene/Audioholics. I already have a class A Cambridge Audio and a Marantz SC-7 so I have not really done any research recently. The reason for me to own preamps is not that I believe they sound better, but of the build quality, reliability and accuracy (not audibly speaking). With the higher USD to CD right now, you may be able to get a Bryston in that price range.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What about the AV7703...

Yeah, the older model 7703 would save a couple of hundred dollars.

 

[ematthews]

I did not use the sub at all in this playback test. Both set ups were exactly the same in this case.

I know, but if you want to get to the bottom of this, it needs to be tried again, with the sub fed from the preamp out of the P5.[/QUOTE]


Oh. Got it. And thanks for the good info.

 

[ematthews]

Yeah, the older model 7703 would save a couple of hundred dollars.

Retail is about 700 off right now. I could use this preamp into my ATI. Run it in 2.1 config and be able to use room correction. Just a quick question. I would need a small monitor or TV to run through the set ups correct? Or no?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Retail is about 700 off right now. I could use this preamp into my ATI. Run it in 2.1 config and be able to use room correction. Just a quick question. I would need a small monitor or TV to run through the set ups correct? Or no?

Yeah, you can use a temporary monitor to aid with the setup. I've never done Audyssey without a monitor, but you may be able to do it with just the LCD screen on the Pre-Pro.

So the Marantz AVR is for movies and this new setup would be for 2.1 music?

That means you'll sell the Marantz 8005 and the Parasound P5?

What's the other option? Just use the current Marantz 8005 and not use the Parasound or ATI?

You just have to look long and hard and ask yourself what would really make you happier?

You know your current Marantz 8005 gives you the sound you want. That's the reason you want to stick with Marantz.

Everyone is different. But it's not about everyone else. It's about you.

For someone else, it would be the Marantz Pre-pro + ATI AT2002.

For someone else, they would clean house and sell the Marantz 8005, Parasound P5, and AT AT2002, and then just get the PM14S1.

Just got to look long and hard deep down.

 

[ematthews]

Yeah, you can use a temporary monitor to aid with the setup. I've never done Audyssey without a monitor, but you may be able to do it with just the LCD screen on the Pre-Pro.

So the Marantz AVR is for movies and this new setup would be for 2.1 music?

That means you'll sell the Marantz 8005 and the Parasound P5?

What's the other option? Just use the current Marantz 8005 and not use the Parasound or ATI?

You just have to look long and hard and ask yourself what would really make you happier?

You know your current Marantz 8005 gives you the sound you want. That's the reason you want to stick with Marantz.

Everyone is different. But it's not about everyone else. It's about you.

For me, since I've already owned high-end separates and been-there-done-it, I would just get an AVR. I'm kind of boring. I must be getting old or something.

For someone else, it would be the Marantz Pre-pro + ATI AT2002.

For someone else, they would clean house and sell the Marantz 8005, Parasound P5, and AT AT2002, and then just get the PM14S1.

Just got to look long and hard deep down.

Correct. I however having audio budget money burning a hole in my pocket have been struck with upgrade itis again. In fact, going back and reading my last few threads started it seems I am all over the place with OCD and ADD.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Correct. I however having audio budget money burning a hole in my pocket have been struck with upgrade itis again.

I'm going to take an educated guess based on everything you've said in the past and say that you really just want a good old high-end integrated amp.

You've considered both AVR and Pre-pro in the past, but it never resonated. Some guys just got to have the integrated amp.

I say do one more experiment. Use your NR1506 AVR to try out Audyssey Dynamic EQ. See if that makes the bass sound better than the 8005.

If DEQ makes the sound even better than the 8005, then get the Marantz Pre-pro.

If the Audyssey DEQ makes the sound no better or even worse than the 8005, then get the PM14S1.