Direct vs ProLogic and other sound settings

[fraxis]

Short-time reader, first time poster...

I recently purchased an Onkyo TX-NR656 (north american version).

It has various sound processing options (I think that's what they are), where I can tell it to output All 5 Channels, or Pro Logic, or Matrix, etc...

So far I have kept it set to 'Direct'. When I play 2ch audio (Youtube, Hulu), the front speakers are used (and the AVR indicates this), and when I play 5.1 audio (Netflix, Amazon, Xbox), all speakers are used (and the AVR shows 5 speakers and the sub).

What is the point of these sound modes and is there an advantage or disadvantage to using Direct vs other options? I want to set it up so that I don't need to fiddle with sound options very often. 'Set it and forget it' as it were, while still getting the best audio possible (or a compromise).

I'd appreciate any insights!
Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

Your avr may be able to remember your preference for a given input or what sound mode you want applied. Check your manual.

You use the sound mode you want to do upmixing from 2.0 to 5.1 or 5.1 to 7.1 etc, or just provides a sound you like. Simply your preference with several options.

 

[fraxis]

Thanks for you feedback! However, part of my question is still unclear. I've poked around the manual, so maybe now I have better terminology.

Listening modes.

According the manual, there are different listening modes that can be selected based on the input.

For example, if the audio entering the AVR is Dolby D, I can select the following listening modes:
Direct
Dolby D
Dolby Surround
Neo:6
Cinema
DTS
Neural:X
TV Logic
AllCh Stereo
Full Mono
T-D

Right now I keep the AVR on 'Direct', but is there a benefit to selecting Dolby D or Dolby Surround or DTS or Neural:X, or any other option, over just Direct?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks for you feedback! However, part of my question is still unclear. I've poked around the manual, so maybe now I have better terminology.

Listening modes.

According the manual, there are different listening modes that can be selected based on the input.

For example, if the audio entering the AVR is Dolby D, I can select the following listening modes:
Direct
Dolby D
Dolby Surround
Neo:6
Cinema
DTS
Neural:X
TV Logic
AllCh Stereo
Full Mono
T-D

Right now I keep the AVR on 'Direct', but is there a benefit to selecting Dolby D or Dolby Surround or DTS or Neural:X, or any other option, over just Direct?

It kinda depends.
Are you focused on 2ch listening with music, or movies too? Direct is popular with 2ch guys because it turns off any room correction and EQ, as well as any subwoofers, theoretically giving you the cleanest unprocessed sound. You can use Direct for movies too, and I believe that passes the track from the disk also unprocessed, but will use the subwoofers since the .1 is encoded in the track.

The other sound modes are normally used for movies although lots of people enjoy pro logic for music as well. I use whatever is native(Dolby digital for example for watching tv, or dts HDMA on BD). I have a 7.3ch system but if a movie is mixed in 5.1, I use the native 5.1 track vs up converting etc.

 

[fraxis]

It kinda depends.
Are you focused on 2ch listening with music, or movies too? Direct is popular with 2ch guys because it turns off any room correction and EQ, as well as any subwoofers, theoretically giving you the cleanest unprocessed sound. You can use Direct for movies too, and I believe that passes the track from the disk also unprocessed, but will use the subwoofers since the .1 is encoded in the track.

The other sound modes are normally used for movies although lots of people enjoy pro logic for music as well. I use whatever is native(Dolby digital for example for watching tv, or dts HDMA on BD). I have a 7.3ch system but if a movie is mixed in 5.1, I use the native 5.1 track vs up converting etc.

Cool. Thanks for the info.

I'm focused on TV and movie viewing, which is mostly 5.1 but Hulu and Youtube only output 2.0. I do get decent bass when it is set to Direct.

Depending on what the receiver is getting, the mode options change. However, for all audio types, the following modes always appear:

Dolby Surround
Neo:6 Cinema
DTS Neural:X
TV Logic
AllCh Stereo
Full Mono
T-D

The benefits aren't clear to me. Like, I can keep it set to Dolby Surround for everything? How does that change the audio quality?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Cool. Thanks for the info.



The benefits aren't clear to me. Like, I can keep it set to Dolby Surround for everything? How does that change the audio quality?

The thing I’m not sure about is Dolby Surround(dsu) is Dolby’s new upmixer which used to be pro logicII. They’re both basically used to expand sources with lesser quantity channels to use all the speakers in your system. 2.0 to 5.1/7.1 etc. if you have height speakers for atmos, dsu basically simulates an atmos soundtrack. I don’t know actually what it would do without ceiling speakers. My guess is that when you run accueq it knows you don’t have any ceiling speakers and treat it like a regular 5.1 system. I’m sure there are threads on this somewhere. Maybe I’ll be able to look later. So, so far, I’d say leaving dsu on would be just fine. It will just apply itself to all sources.

The audio “quality” will remain intact, but the presentation might not be original to the mix. I would try it for awhile and see how you like it. Pay attention to if anything sounds off, or unnatural and go from there.

 

[fraxis]

The thing I’m not sure about is Dolby Surround(dsu) is Dolby’s new upmixer which used to be pro logicII. They’re both basically used to expand sources with lesser quantity channels to use all the speakers in your system. 2.0 to 5.1/7.1 etc. if you have height speakers for atmos, dsu basically simulates an atmos soundtrack. I don’t know actually what it would do without ceiling speakers. My guess is that when you run accueq it knows you don’t have any ceiling speakers and treat it like a regular 5.1 system. I’m sure there are threads on this somewhere. Maybe I’ll be able to look later. So, so far, I’d say leaving dsu on would be just fine. It will just apply itself to all sources.

The audio “quality” will remain intact, but the presentation might not be original to the mix. I would try it for awhile and see how you like it. Pay attention to if anything sounds off, or unnatural and go from there.

Ok. I think I'm getting there.

So setting All Channgels, or Dolby Surround, will output stereo as 5.1. And when it's playing 5.1 audio, it will output correctly but with whatever manipulation that it does.

Thanks for your feedback! It's been really helpful.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok. I think I'm getting there.

So setting All Channgels, or Dolby Surround, will output stereo as 5.1. And when it's playing 5.1 audio, it will output correctly but with whatever manipulation that it does.

Thanks for your feedback! It's been really helpful.

No problem. As long as I don’t make it worse lol.

Yeah, I think you’re getting there. Personally, and I think speaking for most, “all channel stereo” is not a good idea. At least dsu will give you a surround experience. ACS will just play the same stereo signal from the rear speakers as the fronts.
You will be “surrounded” by sound, but that’s definitely not the way to do it. Even the upmixers are designed to give a front to rear side to side experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

I'm focused on TV and movie viewing, which is mostly 5.1 but Hulu and Youtube only output 2.0. I do get decent bass when it is set to Direct.

Depending on what the receiver is getting, the mode options change. However, for all audio types, the following modes always appear:

Dolby Surround
Neo:6 Cinema
DTS Neural:X
TV Logic
AllCh Stereo
Full Mono
T-D

The benefits aren't clear to me. Like, I can keep it set to Dolby Surround for everything? How does that change the audio quality?

Of course you can keep it at Dolby Surround for everything, it's your stuff. It really is a preference and many do like Dolby Surround quite a bit...personally I'm a step back as I don't have the immersive tech like Atmos/DTS:X as I don't have ceiling speakers at this time nor the avr for it.

Most of the tv/movies I watch are in 5.1 (Dolby Digital/Dolby Digital +/DTS) and I generally expand it to 7.1 to use all my speakers, sometimes I leave it at 5.1. Music depends, I sometimes play that as stereo mode/2.1 (using the avr to take 2.0 to 2.1 in stereo mode as I prefer the use of subs most of the time), sometimes I upmix it to 5.1 or 7.1; I also have multi-ch music in 5.1/7.1 and do expand the 5.1 to 7.1 generally. I don't use direct or pure direct much but sometimes. I don't mind experimenting with the remote....

As was mentioned some folk like direct or pure direct modes to eliminate use of dsp/eq or even a subwoofer....depends on which avr/brand as to what functions or what your options are with such terms (they don't all use the same terminology).

It may upmix 2.0 to whatever speaker layout you have whereas direct would keep it at 2.0. Some like to have their avr use the actual decoding modes provided thru the Dolby or DTS/Neo sound modes (the TV Logic, AllCh Stereo, Full Mono and T-D are a bit different, I've never found any of them worth using except maybe AllCh Stereo mode for a party or something to spread the same signal thru the surrounds as the L/R channels (center will be summed).

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok. I think I'm getting there.

So setting All Channgels, or Dolby Surround, will output stereo as 5.1. And when it's playing 5.1 audio, it will output correctly but with whatever manipulation that it does.

Thanks for your feedback! It's been really helpful.

No, AllCh Stereo is not 5.1. It is L/R signal sent to main/surround L/R speakers, the center is summed.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No, AllCh Stereo is not 5.1. It is L/R signal sent to main/surround L/R speakers, the center is summed.

Yeah this. Not sure I broke it down that far.

 

[fraxis]

No, AllCh Stereo is not 5.1. It is L/R signal sent to main/surround L/R speakers, the center is summed.

Yeah this. Not sure I broke it down that far.

I think I get it. All Channel wont simulate surround from a stereo input (good for music), whereas Dolby Surround will attempt to break it down (good to TV and movies).

 

[yepimonfire]

Short-time reader, first time poster...

I recently purchased an Onkyo TX-NR656 (north american version).

It has various sound processing options (I think that's what they are), where I can tell it to output All 5 Channels, or Pro Logic, or Matrix, etc...

So far I have kept it set to 'Direct'. When I play 2ch audio (Youtube, Hulu), the front speakers are used (and the AVR indicates this), and when I play 5.1 audio (Netflix, Amazon, Xbox), all speakers are used (and the AVR shows 5 speakers and the sub).

What is the point of these sound modes and is there an advantage or disadvantage to using Direct vs other options? I want to set it up so that I don't need to fiddle with sound options very often. 'Set it and forget it' as it were, while still getting the best audio possible (or a compromise).

I'd appreciate any insights!
Thanks!

The 656 should have DSU and neural x, not prologic II. DSU upmixes stereo content to 5.1 or greater, with very high accuracy based on the phase relationships contained in a 2ch recording. Personally I prefer it to stereo.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[fraxis]

The 656 should have DSU and neural x, not prologic II. DSU upmixes stereo content to 5.1 or greater, with very high accuracy based on the phase relationships contained in a 2ch recording. Personally I prefer it to stereo.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

What is the different with Neural:X?

 

[lovinthehd]

I think I get it. All Channel wont simulate surround from a stereo input (good for music), whereas Dolby Surround will attempt to break it down (good to TV and movies).

AllCh remains 2ch stereo (i.e. only a left and right signal) and I don't think it's very good for music at all except maybe for a party or something.

Dolby Surround's competition is basically DTS' Neural:X (Neo:6 is also a DTS thing). Some like the way Dolby does surround, some prefer DTS.

Yep's DSU is Dolby Surround....

 

[yepimonfire]

What is the different with Neural:X?

It's dts X's upmixers. Works great with 5.1 content, and sounds nearly identical to discrete Atmos with 7.1 content. If you don't have height speakers I'd steer clear if it, because it sucks for stereo content. Dolby surround is really amazing compared to the old prologic II, even for stereo music, it does an incredible job of upmixing to surround without ruining the original imaging of the stereo track. I'd personally stick to that for all stereo upmixing.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[fraxis]

Thanks everyone for their feedback!

So my takeaway is this; try Dolby Surround and see if I like it.

 

[TechHDS]

Short-time reader, first time poster...

I recently purchased an Onkyo TX-NR656 (north american version).

It has various sound processing options (I think that's what they are), where I can tell it to output All 5 Channels, or Pro Logic, or Matrix, etc...

So far I have kept it set to 'Direct'. When I play 2ch audio (Youtube, Hulu), the front speakers are used (and the AVR indicates this), and when I play 5.1 audio (Netflix, Amazon, Xbox), all speakers are used (and the AVR shows 5 speakers and the sub).

What is the point of these sound modes and is there an advantage or disadvantage to using Direct vs other options? I want to set it up so that I don't need to fiddle with sound options very often. 'Set it and forget it' as it were, while still getting the best audio possible (or a compromise).

I'd appreciate any insights!
Thanks!

That's a pretty good unit, I had that unit I gave it to my youngest Son only cause I wanted a AVR with pre-amp outs. It performed flawlessly for me, my Son loves it. I really like the DTS-X but I couldn't utilize Atmos or even 7.1 it streamed really well I never really liked the direct feature on any AVR's to flat for my taste.