Stereo Listening - Move to Emotiva XSP-1 or Stay with Marantz AV8801

[2channel lover]

Thanks everyone for your comments, really helped.
I must stress that I had an AV7005 in the past and after upgrading to the AV8801 I noticed a SQ improvement (even w/o calibration). I also experienced SQ improvement after upgrading the photo stage of the AV to Emotiva's XPS-1, so preamp upgrade did some change for me in the past. From your comments I understand that the preamp is not a bottleneck anymore so I'll leave it like that.
Regarding the power amp (MCA-5), since it is around 15 years old, I suspect that it is not in it's best share so I'm wondering whether cap replacement would improve something or replacing it all together with an Emotiva XPA-5 or similar amp with less years on it. What do you think?
Regarding speakers, I'm thinking about GoldenEar Tritons (not sure if passive or active yet).

Electronics effect SQ...I was able to hear a demo with a Parasound system that used a 2 ch stereo pre amp with HT bypass....there was some audible SQ improvement, but this pre amp is $4k http://www.safeandsoundhq.com/Parasound-Halo-JC2BP-2-Channel-Preamplifier-with-Bypass?cat=46

The improvement was not remotely worth $4k imo.

Replace...I'd focus on the speakers 1st and see what you think.

GE...I like the Triton line...best bang for the buck maybe the 3 if the room is not large but I was more impressed with the 1, 2+ in 2.0.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I must stress that I had an AV7005 in the past and after upgrading to the AV8801 I noticed a SQ improvement...

If you can hear a significantly difference even when both units are configured exactly the same way (Direct or Pure Direct mode) and both are level-matched when switching back and forth, then I think there is a significant chance you will hear a difference if you buy the Emotiva or anything else.

In a double-blind level-matched test, I doubt most of us would hear a significant difference in Direct (BYPASS) mode between the AV7005 and AV8801.

Now if you use any EQ or DSP or use different configurations with bass, crossover, etc., or if the volume levels are not matched, then there would be a significant difference.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Regarding speakers, I'm thinking about GoldenEar Tritons (not sure if passive or active yet).

Seems like you need to start another thread in the Speakers section for us to spend your money.

However, I'm not sure you need to replace your speakers yet.

Perhaps work more on your current setup/configuration/placement/acoustics as Gene suggested.

Sometimes the best things are free.

Perhaps "PURE" and "BYPASS" isn't always the best.

I use Audyssey Bypass L/R, but I also use Audyssey DYNAMIC EQ (Dynamic Volume off).

I still don't know which part of the SQ you are hoping to enhance - bass, midrange, treble?

 

[drumace]

When I try the Dynamic EQ Off, the sound becomes "dead", I had the same experience with the AV7005.
I'm interested in larger SS, clearer and more detailed experience.
I was also advised to try the Audyssey Pro for better EQ.

 

[PENG]

Thanks everyone for your comments, really helped.
I must stress that I had an AV7005 in the past and after upgrading to the AV8801 I noticed a SQ improvement (even w/o calibration). I also experienced SQ improvement after upgrading the photo stage of the AV to Emotiva's XPS-1, so preamp upgrade did some change for me in the past. From your comments I understand that the preamp is not a bottleneck anymore so I'll leave it like that.
Regarding the power amp (MCA-5), since it is around 15 years old, I suspect that it is not in it's best share so I'm wondering whether cap replacement would improve something or replacing it all together with an Emotiva XPA-5 or similar amp with less years on it. What do you think?
Regarding speakers, I'm thinking about GoldenEar Tritons (not sure if passive or active yet).

I went from avr-4308 to av7005 to av8801, I could not tell a differenc in sq for music. For movies, I fell each time the surround effects got better, with or without Audyssey. So I guess it is true that ymmv.

 

[Pogre]

When I try the Dynamic EQ Off, the sound becomes "dead", I had the same experience with the AV7005.
I'm interested in larger SS, clearer and more detailed experience.
I was also advised to try the Audyssey Pro for better EQ.

You won't get any of that with a separate amp. It sounds dead because Dynamic EQ gives a little boost. If you're unhappy with Audyssey, changing receivers would make more of a difference than a separate amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

When I try the Dynamic EQ Off, the sound becomes "dead", I had the same experience with the AV7005.
I'm interested in larger SS, clearer and more detailed experience.
I was also advised to try the Audyssey Pro for better EQ.

Oh yeah, regarding DEQ, I would never listen to music or watch videos without Dynamic EQ. Must have DEQ.

Clarity and detailed sound quality are salient for sure. If you don't have awesome detail/resolution and clarity, definitely keep looking to improve.

It could be the speakers or speaker designs. The room and placement may also have significant contribution.

I was listening to a little a bit of music on my new RBH SVT towers last night in 2CH stereo mode (with DEQ on, of course). And the soundstage with some songs (not all songs) sounded incredible. The soundstage sounded like in 5.1 surround sound. Who even needs 5.1 SACDs?

I've only listened twice to Paradigm speakers. Fist time was at a friend's house. 2nd time was at the local dealer. Both were the Studio 100 (different versions). And I was disappointed both times. However, I really believe in both cases the room acoustics and setup may have been poor. At a friend's house, the Studio 100s were placed about 5 FT apart and on each side of the TV. At the local store, the Studio 100s were in a room with tile floors, glass windows all around, no rugs, and not much furniture. At the store, I was able to pull the Studio 100s about 7 ft apart, but the hard floor and glass windows didn't help.

 

[KEW]

Oh yeah, regarding DEQ, I would never listen to music or watch videos without Dynamic EQ. Must have DEQ.

Clarity and detailed sound quality are salient for sure. If you don't have awesome detail/resolution and clarity, definitely keep looking to improve.

It could be the speakers or speaker designs. The room and placement may also have significant contribution.

I was listening to a little a bit of music on my new RBH SVT towers last night in 2CH stereo mode (with DEQ on, of course). And the soundstage with some songs (not all songs) sounded incredible. The soundstage sounded like in 5.1 surround sound. Who even needs 5.1 SACDs?

I've only listened twice to Paradigm speakers. Fist time was at a friend's house. 2nd time was at the local dealer. Both were the Studio 100 (different versions). And I was disappointed both times. However, I really believe in both cases the room acoustics and setup may have been poor. At a friend's house, the Studio 100s were placed about 5 FT apart and on each side of the TV. At the local store, the Studio 100s were in a room with tile floors, glass windows all around, no rugs, and not much furniture. At the store, I was able to pull the Studio 100s about 7 ft apart, but the hard floor and glass windows didn't help.

With the great speakers you have had over the years, I would not expect you to be impressed with the Studio Series! Paradigm's Signature Series is the one that would be capable of competently running in the field you listen to.
To define it's character, it is generally a forward sounding speaker, but not obnoxiously so!
However, given that the Studio Series is a step up from the Monitor Series, you make a good point. He has lots of room for improvement with better speakers as compared to electronics.

Drumace,
Look at it this way, an amplifier is all electronics and the science is mature. Same can be said with most aspects of an AVR despite new features, the basic theory and design considerations still apply.
However, with a speaker, we are talking converting electrical signals to mechanical motion. Almost every decision speaker designers make involves a compromise such that ending up with a really excellent speaker is maybe 60% good science/engineering, 25% trial and error and 15% dumb luck. For an AVR, I might guess these numbers to be 97%, 2%, and 1%.
Another way to frame this is we typically see 10 to 100 times as much distortion from speakers as we see from AVR's. Speakers are simply more complex designs and, accordingly, there is much more variation among speakers than AVRs.
I like the sound of the Paradigm monitor series, but the quality of the drivers used simply can not provide the detail and clarity of a better speaker.

 

[2channel lover]

If you can hear a significantly difference even when both units are configured exactly the same way (Direct or Pure Direct mode) and both are level-matched when switching back and forth, then I think there is a significant chance you will hear a difference if you buy the Emotiva or anything else.

In a double-blind level-matched test, I doubt most of us would hear a significant difference in Direct (BYPASS) mode between the AV7005 and AV8801.

Now if you use any EQ or DSP or use different configurations with bass, crossover, etc., or if the volume levels are not matched, then there would be a significant difference.

I was lucky enough to be able to demo pre pros...the dealer had on the shelf, the AV8802, 7703 was just coming out and the 7702mkii. I got to hear all three...all were hooked up to the same Parasound 5 ch amps, and 2 ch amp...these were not blind test, but I couldn't detect any difference in the SQ...I bought the last 7702mkii he had left in a box on a price match deal....the 7703 was going for $2199, and paid $1499...felt like I got away with something...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was lucky enough to be able to demo pre pros...the dealer had on the shelf, the AV8802, 7703 was just coming out and the 7702mkii. I got to hear all three...all were hooked up to the same Parasound 5 ch amps, and 2 ch amp...these were not blind test, but I couldn't detect any difference in the SQ...

You couldn't detect any difference in SQ because you don't have GOLDEN EARS. Hello!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

With the great speakers you have had over the years, I would not expect you to be impressed with the Studio Series!

Paradigm's Signature Series is the one that would be capable of competently running in the field you listen to.

2 words come to mind - diminishing returns.

I have friends who have owned and listened to a lot of expensive high end speakers. Some of them hate the Paradigm Signature, and some of them like it.

So I doubt that the Paradigm Signature in the same room and setup as the Studio 100 would have sounded any better.

The $2,000 Studio 100 isn't exactly cheap. For $2,000, it shouldn't sound bad or mediocre.

I could be wrong about Paradigm, but I doubt it based on my experience with other speakers.

For example, I have listened to the RBH T2-Standard vs the RBH T2-Reference. And I can't tell much difference (if any at all) for the typical volume and distance. Now it may be a different story if I were listening from a much farther distance and played at a much higher volume.

Just because a speaker is "Signature" or "Reference" and costs more doesn't mean it will sound better (typical room size and volume).

That's why I say the culprit must have been the room acoustics and setup.

 

[KEW]

So I doubt that the Paradigm Signature in the same room and setup as the Studio 100 would have sounded any better.

The $2,000 Studio 100 isn't exactly cheap. For $2,000, it shouldn't sound bad or mediocre.

That is a strange statement!

Let's just keep it simple. The Studio Al tweeter has audible breakup distortion. It is not horrible, but a cymbal will sound much like sizzlin' bacon.

Having A-B tested the Studio20 against the Sig 2's, I can say there is a clearly audible difference.

Paradigm tunes their speakers on the bright side, which I can understand as a polarizing decision; but they are no slouch when it comes to R&D and speaker design. Their flagship will reflect better quality.

 

[drumace]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to update I upgraded the Paradigm Monitor v7 set I had with GoldenEar speakers- Triton One, SuperCenterXXL and SuperSat3 for surrounds.
I also added a pair of Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks for the Tritons to replace my old Anthem MCA-5 (now serving only the center and surrounds).
What in your mind should be the next upgrade step? I’m focused on higher resolution in sound.

 

[PENG]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to update I upgraded the Paradigm Monitor v7 set I had with GoldenEar speakers- Triton One, SuperCenterXXL and SuperSat3 for surrounds.
I also added a pair of Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks for the Tritons to replace my old Anthem MCA-5 (now serving only the center and surrounds).
What in your mind should be the next upgrade step? I’m focused on higher resolution in sound.

The MCA 5 is quite old but if in top condition it should be as good as the XPA-1L if not better. If not, then it may be time to replace both with a brand new amp such as one of those Monolith's, or a higher end pro amp. Other than that, if you are focused on "higher resolution" in sound you really should focus on finding media source that are of high recording/mastering quality (I started a thread a few years ago collecting titles recommended by members) instead of electronics. Again, it is the quality of the recording/mastering that counts most in terms of the final resolution, not the format resolution. I have CDs and 44.1kHz/16 bit that sounds more transparent than 192kHz/24bit or higher. Oddly enough, most of my DSD128 and DSD256 files seem to do better in general, but I have no doubt it is because at their price point people tend to be more selective when picking the source master recordings.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey guys,
Just wanted to update I upgraded the Paradigm Monitor v7 set I had with GoldenEar speakers- Triton One, SuperCenterXXL and SuperSat3 for surrounds.
I also added a pair of Emotiva XPA-1L monoblocks for the Tritons to replace my old Anthem MCA-5 (now serving only the center and surrounds).
What in your mind should be the next upgrade step? I’m focused on higher resolution in sound.

I'd be more interested in what you felt you gained with these changes. What do you mean higher resolution?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What do you mean higher resolution?

Whatchu talkabout, Willis?

 

[drumace]

Whatchu talkabout, Willis?

I mean more transparency and realism.
I’m trying to understand which is the weakest link now and my initial thought was the lack of pure stereo preamp and maybe better CD player (with better DAC).

 

[lovinthehd]

So did the amp change or speakers get you closer to this "high resolution" pursuit? Did you do anything with room acoustics? I'd think your speakers/room are still the key to get where you want to go rather than the electronics....

 

[drumace]

So did the amp change or speakers get you closer to this "high resolution" pursuit? Did you do anything with room acoustics? I'd think your speakers/room are still the key to get where you want to go rather than the electronics....

There’s no doubt the GoldenEars improved the SQ and I don’t believe I could have had better in that price level.
As for the Emos, haven’t done A-B sound test against the old Anthem as it is not a trivial task to do if you don’t have amp switcher such as in stereo shops. I plan to do some experiments but it would have to relay on memory rather than have a seamless switching between the amps.
And speaking of memory, playing the same material I used to play on the Anthem, my internal feeling is that there is an improvement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There’s no doubt the GoldenEars improved the SQ and I don’t believe I could have had better in that price level.
As for the Emos, haven’t done A-B sound test against the old Anthem as it is not a trivial task to do if you don’t have amp switcher such as in stereo shops. I plan to do some experiments but it would have to relay on memory rather than have a seamless switching between the amps.
And speaking of memory, playing the same material I used to play on the Anthem, my internal feeling is that there is an improvement.

You can forget about comparison by memory because it is 100% unreliable.... I mean 99%.... Or maybe 98%...